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Do you follow the Cult of the Virgin Mary?
Absolutely! 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
I think it has some merit. 11%  11%  [ 3 ]
I don't care / I don't know. 19%  19%  [ 5 ]
I have serious doubts. 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Absolutely Not! 59%  59%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 27

blooiejagwa
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03 Mar 2020, 1:08 am

B19 wrote:
I've made the points clearly enough I think about why proselytising is not a good idea here, and was responding particularly to Aunt Blabby's idea of it being acceptable here.


My question isn't why or why not.

It never was my stance that it isn't potentially harmful or aggravating.

My question was only where is it here specifically. As I don't see it. I need an example if I'm to know what to avoid.


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03 Mar 2020, 1:15 am

Here's an example for you to ponder then, from another thread. Calling another member "a blasphemer" because they don't share a religious view is not what WP is about.

Quoted post from another thread in PPR:

"You're the blasphemer, not I.

Blessed be the Great Mother of God, Mary Most Holy!"



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03 Mar 2020, 2:08 am

blooiejagwa wrote:
Huh.. but I wasn't saying anything out of line.. in fact I was affirming her own beliefs just saying the specific verses that we have that are the same stories and messages exactly. i also mentioned a prayer she might like. A prayer is a prayer. You're not praying to anyone but God so who cares who teaches it to you...if it is good...can just use it. It doesn't mean u buy into the religion just that u took the good that u saw and left the rest that u (the mormon ladies) don't agree with. I thought that is reinforcing her message not detracting from it

you did no thing wrong. the LDS lady couldn't handle anything at all that was even remotely outside her experience, is all.



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03 Mar 2020, 2:54 am

blooiejagwa wrote:
I don't hate Shias and my sister is married to one. As usual the tantalizing drama driven stuff is more well known. The Shia Sunni thing is supplemented and fanned in certain areas for political gain esp now with arms dealings including world powers that on the one hand intentionally start conflict and arm groups and on the other claim to want to quell them. Its all a mess and has been for ages. Eg Iran used to not br majority Shia till centuries back they had to convert or subdued by force. History is full of such things and it can be shown for Christianity too eg Belgium Congo.. Etc

Muslims in majority muslim countries see Christians the same way from afar. Even pity the women the way ppl outside of, do for Saudi women. We had free forum discussions in social studies classes that wd shock feminists in the west.

As ahogday said. A great need or even duty to distance oneself temporarily from ppl n cultural noise to find yourself.

Better to be an observer and select your own way. Participate only as you see fit.


We have something as Mary did isolation prayer ..etc called itikaaf. I have yet to commit myself to it and probably never can..but some ppl I know have.

Aspergers is actually well suited to such a goal. :heart: :mrgreen:

I find your post very informative and interesting. I also heard that Muslim women pity Western women who "have to work in the world and divorce on petty things". You know this graphic, right?
Image
The funny thing is, I don't identify with either of the ladies.

I have experienced something apparently similar to itikaaf, in Roman Catholic setting, called "spiritual exercises". You spend several days in silence, praying, meditating, reading only sacred texts, not talking to people, not using any media. I did it twice. First time, I was 18. It was something... it was definitely something. While the whole practice is directed at meeting God, you also have no where to hide from yourself. Do you realize how we hide from ourselves all the time?
I went second time when I was 25 and the experience was completely different. Kind of forced, unnatural, pointless and empty. Like I was playing some externally-defined role I don't fit. Well, that's my general experience with religion in adulthood.


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magz
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03 Mar 2020, 2:59 am

auntblabby wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
Huh.. but I wasn't saying anything out of line.. in fact I was affirming her own beliefs just saying the specific verses that we have that are the same stories and messages exactly. i also mentioned a prayer she might like. A prayer is a prayer. You're not praying to anyone but God so who cares who teaches it to you...if it is good...can just use it. It doesn't mean u buy into the religion just that u took the good that u saw and left the rest that u (the mormon ladies) don't agree with. I thought that is reinforcing her message not detracting from it

you did no thing wrong. the LDS lady couldn't handle anything at all that was even remotely outside her experience, is all.

That reminds me how my father handles JWs - he always does his best to convince them to convert to Catholicism.

Yes, I think you did absolutely nothing wrong, just things went way too far away from their script.


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naturalplastic
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03 Mar 2020, 5:13 am

B19 wrote:
Here's an example for you to ponder then, from another thread. Calling another member "a blasphemer" because they don't share a religious view is not what WP is about.

Quoted post from another thread in PPR:

"You're the blasphemer, not I.

Blessed be the Great Mother of God, Mary Most Holy!"


He said that in response to someone else calling HIM a blasphemer.

This very thread was created by a Protestant to bash Catholicism. So is this thread itself an example of "proselytizing"?



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03 Mar 2020, 7:23 am

Excessive Admiration For ‘Memes’ are surely not a New Phenomenon. Cult is generally used as A Pejorative; but as I pointed out earlier in this thread excessive admiration for the storybook character Jesus written by innumerable Ghost Authors and Scribes as Biblical Science shows is at essence no different.

The Gentleman who has great admiration for the Meme of the Virgin Mary hasn’t been forcing anyone to submit to his Beliefs; he has Been a Real Gentleman whose beliefs are attacked by this Op.

He only defended himself which he should be allowed to self-advocate as i Damn sure will too in a tactful enough way For personal beliefs/expression when personally attacked.

It’s worth noting that A ‘Cult’ of Jesus or Muhammad would be a Pejorative attack of those excessive admirations too.

Technically widespread And yes excessive admiration for the Virgin Mary is not a ‘Cult’ because it is A Global commonly held belief.

Therefore this thread is an attack on a specific widely-held Belief System (Religion).

I doubt ‘Cult of Muhammad’ would be allowed because it would be seen as Xenophobic; Similar thing is happening here.

The Gentleman’s religious Beliefs are being Personally attacked in a Pejorative way with this thread.

There is a bit of Hypocrisy here.

Personally, I’m not much one for idol worship; I’m into doing; but never the less others see life differently.

From a Support Perspective, It’s important that people have a place to express what they Believe In; Particularly folks on the Spectrum as long as it doesn’t break the rules.

It’s Not uncommon for folks on the Spectrum to make religion a Special interest; no need to disrespect beliefs with pejorative attacks; where no one can actually force folks to convert...


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03 Mar 2020, 8:59 am

I don't think clashes of conflicting beliefs would be ever completely avoidable in PPR.
I think this thread is not so bad, apart from a boring exchange of centuries-old arguments, there is quite a lot to learn here.


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03 Mar 2020, 9:10 am

magz wrote:
I don't think clashes of conflicting beliefs would be ever completely avoidable in PPR.
I think that's why Alex set it up in the first place.
magz wrote:
I think this thread is not so bad, apart from a boring exchange of centuries-old arguments, there is quite a lot to learn here.
There will be much more, as soon as I finish my essay on "What the Bible Says About Mary, the Mother of Jesus". There is a lot of mythology surrounding this ordinary peasant girl, not much biblical history at all, and even less truthful secular history. It's a fascinating topic from an historical perspective.


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Last edited by Fnord on 03 Mar 2020, 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

magz
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03 Mar 2020, 9:16 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
I don't think clashes of conflicting beliefs would be ever completely avoidable in PPR.
I think that's why Alex set it up in the first place.
magz wrote:
I think this thread is not so bad, apart from a boring exchange of centuries-old arguments, there is quite a lot to learn here.
There will be much more, as soon as I finish my essay on "What the Bible Says About Mary, the Mother of Jesus". There is a lot of mythology surrounding this ordinary peasant girl, not much biblical history at all, and even less truthful secular history. It's a fascinating topic.

Is it your special interest or something?


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Last edited by magz on 03 Mar 2020, 9:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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03 Mar 2020, 9:20 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
I don't think clashes of conflicting beliefs would be ever completely avoidable in PPR.
I think that's why Alex set it up in the first place.
magz wrote:
I think this thread is not so bad, apart from a boring exchange of centuries-old arguments, there is quite a lot to learn here.
There will be much more, as soon as I finish my essay on "What the Bible Says About Mary, the Mother of Jesus". There is a lot of mythology surrounding this ordinary peasant girl, not much biblical history at all, and even less truthful secular history. It's a fascinating topic.
Is it your special interest or something?
Does it matter? Do I have to justify my actions under a "Special Interest"? Why can I not simply do something I enjoy without being required to have any "Special Interest" in it?


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03 Mar 2020, 9:30 am

It doesn't matter. I just don't get it why you put so much energy into this particular activity.

By the way - what was so special about this carpenter's son, Joshua of Nazareth? Why so much mythology grew around him, finally gaining position of sacred texts?
What's so special about this tiny nation of Middle East that their rather peculiar beliefs became so contagious and, after evolving into several branches, still linger?

Just teasing. Or sharing my systematic skepticism - if you need to share your Protestant criticism to anything that appeared after the written Bible standard was set, I think it's okay.


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03 Mar 2020, 10:19 am

No Different than Greek and Roman God's;
So-Called Biblical History is Rife With Mythology.

Mythology plays as Metaphor for the Parts of Life
That are Emotional That do not Easily Reveal
Truths in Light through 'Reason'; so Yes, Story/
Mythology, Proves as Historical Important Parts
of understanding the Deeper parts of our Emotional Existences.

There is Very Little Objective Reality associated with Biblical History;

But Never the less, Archetypal Lessons in 'Human Memes' to relate and
increase Human Potential are provided;

Unless it's taken
'Literally' as 'the Gospel Truth';

That's a Big Problem that has and does still lead to to widespread ignorance in Death and Destruction;

That's when aspects of Cult-Like Behavior within the Framework of the Myths/Story become a reality, too.

The Meme of Mary sets a standard for Behavior within the Framework of Binds and Bonds of Religion; Religion does this.

If 'the Meme' of Mary is Cult, so is all of established Religion. It doesn't bother me at all, as i hold no Great 'Veneration' for any actual Physical Character of any 'Story'/Myth. I learn from them; but i realize not unlike 'Superman or Micky Mouse' they are NOT REAL; Jesus and Mary is a Story/Myth written by Innumerable Authors/Scribes even in the More Modern Versions of the Christian Religions and all the 'Sects'; or what some folks may Tribally and Pejoratively Identify as
'Cults' if they don't happen to be in that specific Sect.

This is Obviously all Tribal Behavior; on a Personal Level as a Participant Anthropology Observer
i find it fascinating.

Please do Carry on...;)

And to Be Clear, i realize there indeed may have been an actual Physical Person crucified around 2k Years ago
Named Yeshua or Whatever; But The Words We Have are all Written by Other Individuals; again, Story and Myth;
Same With the so-called Virgin Mary; but we have no idea if she existed or not; Science Shows there was NO
Virgin Human Birth; Sharks do that; but not Humans;

And sure it is all a 'Pretty Cool Story Bro' too.

Biblical History Shows 'Yeshua' was an Illiterate
Aramaic Person from his day; Brown and about 5 Feet Tall and Barely Over 100 'American Pounds';
Given the Study of Paleontology from 'those days' too; the rest of it is someone else's story/myth, too.

So In other Words in most Every Case in Actual Reality it is the Story Teller's Words who Are Venerated now;

Really, No Different than Leonardo DaVinci, Who Wore a Beard and Long Hair when Culture Frowned
upon it; and Painted 'Jesus' in the Likeness of His Style of 'Masculine' Behavior in 'His day' for the "Last Supper".
Now, in effect, Many Christians Worship the Physical Image of Leonardo DaVinci in Form; that's one way to
stay alive' after Death; Leonardo was surely a 'Trickster' too; And Mostly Definitely Remains as 'A Cool Story Bro'.

Personally, i'm more interested in Doing Reality; but this is a Fascinating Study; Reality is Much more Fun than 'Fiction'
to me. Apparently, Many Folks have not Found a Way to Do Life real that way; Religion continues to take Center stage for many People in structured Historically Organized ways; no surprise to me, for sure; where i Live, at least but not for
what i actually Do; it's fun to visit; but i surely keep plenty of distance from it; Love and the Human Connection remains
as real; i ignore the rest of 'the other stuff'... easily....

And as Far As TM (Trademark God) i am 100 Percent Sure that all of Nature/Reality is one Force of Energy Common to All that is 'God';

Science Agrees too; Call it a 'Blue Turtle' or 'Whatever' as Nomenclature is Form; Essence is Real Eternally Now as Science Shows that all that is; i didn't have to have Science to Prove this to me; only seeing with no Words at all; only 'Seeing' All of Nature within as God from before i could speak at age 4..... built in eternally now.


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Last edited by aghogday on 03 Mar 2020, 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

magz
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03 Mar 2020, 11:07 am

aghogday wrote:
No Different than Greek and Roman God's;
So-Called Biblical History is Rife With Mythology.

Mythology plays as Metaphor for the Parts of Life
That are Emotional That do not Easily Reveal
Truths in Light through 'Reason'; so Yes, Story/
Mythology, Proves as Historical Important Parts
of understanding the Deeper parts of our Emotional Existences.

There is Very Little Objective Reality associated with Biblical History;

But Never the less, Archetypal Lessons in 'Human Memes' to relate and
increase Human Potential are provided;

Unless it's taken
'Literally' as 'the Gospel Truth';

That's a Big Problem that has and does still lead to to widespread ignorance in Death and Destruction;

That's when aspects of Cult-Like Behavior within the Framework of the Myths/Story become a reality, too.

The Meme of Mary sets a standard for Behavior within the Framework of Binds and Bonds of Religion; Religion does this.

If 'the Meme' of Mary is Cult, so is all of established Religion. It doesn't bother me at all, as i hold no Great 'Veneration' for any actual Physical Character of any 'Story'/Myth. I learn from them; but i realize not unlike 'Superman or Micky Mouse' they are NOT REAL; Jesus and Mary is a Story/Myth written by Innumerable Authors/Scribes even in the More Modern Versions of the Christian Religions and all the 'Sects'; or what some folks may Tribally and Pejoratively Identify as
'Cults' if they don't happen to be in that specific Sect.

This is Obviously all Tribal Behavior; on a Personal Level as a Participant Anthropology Observer
i find it fascinating.

Please do Carry on...;)

And to Be Clear, i realize there indeed may have been an actual Physical Person crucified around 2k Years ago
Named Yeshua or Whatever; But The Words We Have are all Written by Other Individuals; again, Story and Myth;
Same With the so-called Virgin Mary; but we have no idea if she existed or not; Science Shows there was NO
Virgin Human Birth; Sharks do that; but not Humans;

And sure it is all a 'Pretty Cool Story Bro' too.

Biblical History Shows 'Yeshua' was an Illiterate
Aramaic Person from his day; Brown and about 5 Feet Tall and Barely Over 100 'American Pounds';
Given the Study of Paleontology from 'those days' too; the rest of it is someone else's story/myth, too.

So In other Words in most Every Case in Actual Reality it is the Story Teller's Words who Are Venerated now;

Really, No Different than Leonardo DaVinci, Who Wore a Beard and Long Hair when Culture Frowned
upon it; and Painted 'Jesus' in the Likeness of His Style of 'Masculine' Behavior in 'His day' for the "Last Supper".
Now, in effect, Many Christians Worship the Physical Image of Leonardo DaVinci in Form; that's one way to
stay alive' after Death; Leonardo was surely a 'Trickster' too; And Mostly Definitely Remains as 'A Cool Story Bro'.

Personally, i'm more interested in Doing Reality; but this is a Fascinating Study; Reality is Much more Fun than 'Fiction'
to me. Apparently, Not Many Folks have not Found a Way to Do Life real that way; Religion continues to take Center stage for many People in structured Historically Organized ways; no surprise to me, for sure; where i Live, at least but not for
what i actually Do; it's fun to visit; but i surely keep plenty of distance from it; Love and the Human Connection remains
as real; i ignore the rest of 'the other stuff'... easily....

And as Far As TM (Trademark God) i am 100 Percent Sure that all of Nature/Reality is one Force of Energy Common to All that is 'God';

Science Agrees too; Call it a 'Blue Turtle' or 'Whatever' as Nomenclature is Form; Essence is Real Eternally Now as Science Shows that all that is; i didn't have to have Science to Prove this to me; only seeing with no Words at all; only 'Seeing' All of Nature within as God from before i could speak at age 4..... built in eternally now.

That's close to how I view these things now. Religions are valid expressions of experiences and values of societes.


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03 Mar 2020, 12:10 pm

^^^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-MXMO9euGU

Younger Generations are Falling Away from 'Organized Religion' as the 'New God' Google;
the 'New Bible' Google Provides answers in most Countries at least that are no longer Censored.

And on top of that there are just too many fun things to do than Sitting Still Having Quiet Hands
And Feet in the Precious span of an Hour Each Sunday; if i did not enjoy the Emotional Experience
of Singing Uplifting Songs in Church, where i just exchange the Metaphor of Jesus for Love or He
or God or Whatever Else; even Mary and Saint Francis too; i likely would not go; but i enjoy
the experience as uplifting and have a very nice Joyful rest of the Sunday; i filter out the
Dark Parts and understand how they arrived; and take 'The Wheat With me' and Leave
'the Chaff Behind'; A 'God Of Love' is Nice; But a 'God of Reason' too; Understands Love Better and Thrives..:)

'The Church' still Runs this Country At Core in Binds and Bonds of Politics at the Pulpit.

That's Changing; The Younger Generations are the Change; It is Heir apparent in the common
Sense of Expanding Health Coverage and College Education to all People; Ignorance will come to
Fail more this way; the Greatest Investment is Human Capital; Hehe; perhaps i'll write a speech 'in plain
English' for Bernie; Perhaps a Speech for Freedom and Love Without So Many Clouds of Ignorance that Breed Lies..:)

The Song Above is titled 'Here i am'; I believe most Humans have the Potential to be Lords of Love to give and share free;

And to learn more about this existence now; and how to make Life Good. And Yes; that's me singing; there are still many
things; innumerable things and experiences that Life has to teach me; When we No longer Evolve, We Stagnant and die as Life; i feel the Same Way about 'God'; the Force the Energy of All; Art instead of just a machine set in stone/concrete cold.


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03 Mar 2020, 1:21 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
B19 wrote:
Here's an example for you to ponder then, from another thread. Calling another member "a blasphemer" because they don't share a religious view is not what WP is about.

Quoted post from another thread in PPR:

"You're the blasphemer, not I.

Blessed be the Great Mother of God, Mary Most Holy!"


He said that in response to someone else calling HIM a blasphemer.

This very thread was created by a Protestant to bash Catholicism. So is this thread itself an example of "proselytizing"?



Um I didnt think there was bashing going on. If there was it quickly swerved anyway. It became quite a lively at times dull discussion without imposing. Just interesting.

Then again I didn't know of the context of another thread you mention.


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