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How do you define "too much" skepticism?
When someone denies the facts in favor of a conspiracy theory. 21%  21%  [ 8 ]
When someone points out the lack of certainty in your claims. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
When someone refuses to consider to any claim or opinion you express. 18%  18%  [ 7 ]
When someone refuses to follow your philosophy, politics, or religion. 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
When someone requests valid empirical evidence to support your claims. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
When someone responds to your every claim with "What if..." or "Yeah, but...". 16%  16%  [ 6 ]
When someone says you are wrong without explaining why. 18%  18%  [ 7 ]
When someone uses factual data to falsify your claims. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
When someone else's opinions are in conflict with your own. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Other: ________________ (Please explain). 16%  16%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 38

The_Walrus
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13 Mar 2020, 8:48 am

BenderRodriguez wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Personally I would separate skepticism with a k from scepticism with a c. A sceptic is someone who doubts, and a skeptic is someone who requires evidence, supports robust statistical analysis, believes in the rigorous application of the scientific method, and so forth. So a conspiracy theorist is a sceptic but not a skeptic.

A skeptic believes in the power of vaccines as proven by huge amounts of evidence. A skeptic believes that climate change caused by anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions presents a medium-term threat to the natural world and will render some areas much less suitable for human life. A skeptic believes GMOs are as safe as unmodified crops, does not believe in any deities, and that humans share common ancestry with all known life on Earth.

I suppose skepticism could become a problem if it interfered with your life, or if it stopped you from making an urgent decision that didn't have much evidence behind it.


How interesting, I thought this was just another case of different American/British spelling. Has the meaning really changed or is it somewhat related to a different cultural view/perception of the term? Can't find much on the subject :?

Since about the mid-00s, skeptics have been using the k spelling to distinguish themselves from climate sceptics in particular. I first encountered this in a book although as I read it at least 10 years ago I don’t remember which one. It’s briefly mentioned here: https://www.theguardian.com/science/blo ... s-march-us

Certainly the term is usually just spelled geographically, but there is a subculture where the c or the k conveys a different meaning.



kraftiekortie
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13 Mar 2020, 8:59 am

Scepticism is the UK version.
Skepticism is the American version.

Of course, linguistics is a dynamic process. So, it's a bit more than the above.

Fascism with a capital "F" is way different and specific than fascism with a lower-case "f."



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13 Mar 2020, 8:59 am

magz wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
that there are people in my country who profess to believe that the EU is a big plot cooked up by the Vatican to eliminate Protestantism (I know at least one person who sincerely believes that)

No way, they are a big plot of the masonry to defeat catholicism! ;)

What! The buildings are behind it all? Knew all this “smart house” stuff was a bad idea. :lol:
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My own conspiracy version: I prefer the fight for hegemony in Europe happening at, or even under, the tables in Brussels over the trenches in Carpathian Mountains.

I know it’s completely off topic, but yes, the more geopolitical power plays are conducted by grey diplomats & bureaucrats in grey offices with complicated jargon the better...
(side note here: the people I know in my country who lived through WW2 almost all voted remain: the ones who grew up with stories of the war after the events almost all voted leave... not really going anywhere with that, just find it interesting)
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I stick to the original meaning of "scepticism/skepticism" and say, too much of it is when you spend all your resources on checking all the data you encounter, to the point you can't be productive in anything.

I once spent a week number crunching polling data on a constituency by constituency basis to get to the bottom of how much support for the various parties there had been in the 2015 election from the population as a whole, not just those registered to vote! :lol:

Fun fact: most British “safe seats” have more unregistered citizens who don’t vote than active voting citizens!
Our whole political order is built on and stabilised by mass disengagement! 8O

@The_Walrus that was what made me think of Sloterdijk! The distinction between healthy and unhealthy manifestations distinguished by alternate spellings (Cynicism vs Kynicism in his case) :D



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13 Mar 2020, 9:05 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Since about the mid-00s, skeptics have been using the k spelling to distinguish themselves from climate sceptics in particular...
Also the fact that "sceptic" looks too much like "septic" as in "septic tank" or infection. At least, that's the main reason why I use the 'k' spelling.

:lol:


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13 Mar 2020, 9:19 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Since about the mid-00s, skeptics have been using the k spelling to distinguish themselves from climate sceptics in particular. I first encountered this in a book although as I read it at least 10 years ago I don’t remember which one. It’s briefly mentioned here: https://www.theguardian.com/science/blo ... s-march-us

Certainly the term is usually just spelled geographically, but there is a subculture where the c or the k conveys a different meaning.


Once again, interesting, but I wish people who do this kind of stuff would send a memo to everybody :P I normally use the British spelling (for everything): if skeptic starts being used more for someone who employs critical thinking and sceptic for fact/science deniers, that could cause all kind of misunderstandings :lol:


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13 Mar 2020, 9:21 am

BenderRodriguez wrote:
... if skeptic starts being used more for someone who employs critical thinking and sceptic for fact/science deniers, that could cause all kind of misunderstandings.
How about going retro and using 'smarties' and 'dummies', respectively?

:wink:


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13 Mar 2020, 9:23 am

Fnord wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
... if skeptic starts being used more for someone who employs critical thinking and sceptic for fact/science deniers, that could cause all kind of misunderstandings.
How about going retro and using 'smarties' and 'dummies', respectively?

:wink:


Smarties have the answer!



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13 Mar 2020, 9:35 am

Karamazov wrote:
Fnord wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
... if skeptic starts being used more for someone who employs critical thinking and sceptic for fact/science deniers, that could cause all kind of misunderstandings.
How about going retro and using 'smarties' and 'dummies', respectively?

:wink:


Smarties have the answer!


Smarties are an old-school candy that some people like, and other people think tastes like chalk.


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13 Mar 2020, 9:41 am

^ it’s the tag-line from one of the adverts for those sweets :wink: Humour alert! :lol:



Fnord
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13 Mar 2020, 9:42 am

Borromeo wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
Fnord wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
... if skeptic starts being used more for someone who employs critical thinking and sceptic for fact/science deniers, that could cause all kind of misunderstandings.
How about going retro and using 'smarties' and 'dummies', respectively?
Smarties have the answer!
Smarties are an old-school candy that some people like, and other people think tastes like chalk.
... and "Dummies" are people who don't have time or money for formal education in a wide range of subjects, thus the plethora of "... for Dummies" books.

But there is at least some validity to the idea that 'skeptics' are fact/science acceptors, while 'sceptics' are fact/science deniers. I think we need a more obvious way to distinguish between the two -- something other than a pair of homonyms.


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13 Mar 2020, 9:45 am

magz wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
@BenderRodriguezThe term skeptic has acquired a series of colloquial meanings which don’t really fit with the original one, indeed in the case of the one I typed in as “other” and fnord has added to the poll: the original meaning has been inverted.
An example of that would be “Euroskeptic” when the person in question is referring to the EU as either “the fourth reich” or the “EUSSR” with complete sincerity. 8O

I find use of the word "skeptic" for opponent a form of manipulation.
1. You pretend your idea does not have opponents, just sceptics;
2. (probably more important) You shove real sceptics - people who have doubts and want answers for uncomfortable questions - into one category with all possible freaks and extremists and then you are free to overlook their existence - sceptics are the conspiracy weirdos, not the ones who ask for uncertainities.


Wrong.

An "XYZ Skeptic" usually sounds quite respectable.

An "XYZ Denier" sounds lunatic fringe.

Folks who doubt climate change (or admit that its real but deny that humans cause it)might call themselves "climate skeptics". Wherease those who debate them might them call them "climate deniers" (in order to lump them into the same hopper as "Holocaust Deniers" who seem to be willfully ignorant and are indeed fringe).



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13 Mar 2020, 9:48 am

naturalplastic wrote:
magz wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
@BenderRodriguezThe term skeptic has acquired a series of colloquial meanings which don’t really fit with the original one, indeed in the case of the one I typed in as “other” and fnord has added to the poll: the original meaning has been inverted.
An example of that would be “Euroskeptic” when the person in question is referring to the EU as either “the fourth reich” or the “EUSSR” with complete sincerity. 8O

I find use of the word "skeptic" for opponent a form of manipulation.
1. You pretend your idea does not have opponents, just sceptics;
2. (probably more important) You shove real sceptics - people who have doubts and want answers for uncomfortable questions - into one category with all possible freaks and extremists and then you are free to overlook their existence - sceptics are the conspiracy weirdos, not the ones who ask for uncertainities.


Wrong.

An "XYZ Skeptic" usually sounds quite respectable.

An "XYZ Denier" sounds lunatic fringe.

Folks who doubt climate change (or admit that its real but deny that humans cause it)might call themselves "climate skeptics". Wherease those who debate them might them call them "climate deniers" (in order to lump them into the same hopper as "Holocaust Deniers" who seem to be willfully ignorant and are indeed fringe).

"Euro-deniers" sound too lunatic even for the purpose of dismissing them.


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13 Mar 2020, 9:51 am

There are obvious signs of climate change; there is no doubt as to its existence.

The questions are: How much is it caused by "human activity"; and how much is caused by natural geological forces.

I am inclined to believe in "human activities" as the primary causation----owing to the sheer magnitude of the climate change occurring over a relatively short period of time.

As for the Holocaust: there is undeniable visual evidence of its existence----in addition to all the records recovered from the Nazis, and the testimony of many people who were involved in "both sides."



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13 Mar 2020, 9:54 am

@magz
You mean you believe that there’s a landmass called Europe attached to the western end of Asia?!
They have clearly got to you! :lol: :wink:



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13 Mar 2020, 9:55 am

Karamazov wrote:
@magz
You mean you believe that there’s a landmass called Europe attached to the western end of Asia?!
They have clearly got to you! :lol: :wink:

I'm not denying it, I'm just asking for evidence!


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