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vermontsavant
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11 May 2020, 2:17 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sounds like something you only do under a dictatorship - run by psychopaths who want to weed out their competition.

This!

Psychopaths are humans like the rest of us and have human rights like the rest of us. The vast majority never commit a crime. There are elements of their condition we might find undesirable but they’re also an important part of human neurodiversity, as well as, I say again, living individuals who deserve to be treated as individuals rather than subject to genocide.


Talking genocide is prohibited on this board I guess, so I'm only talking about jailing them for life.

We could make it a crime to have psychopathy/sociopathy.
Legal issue solved.

About the morality/ethical "issue", I very much disagree with just about everything you said.
To me, they are definitely not "important part of human neurodiversity". They're like the flies that annoy you at night, at best. To me, they deserve not to be treated as human beings, but to be punished for being psychopaths.

Psychopaths, regardless of whether they commit a crime, should be treated as criminals for the very thing of being psychopaths.

Not only do we not have any use of them - there's lots of people we don't have "use of", economically speaking, like the disabled, autistics, mentally ill etc. but I'm not going to suggest they should be punished for who they are.

Only psychopaths should be punished for their personality.

Fact of the matter is, that psychopaths are potentially dangerous. They would commit a crime, if the stakes for them weren't as high as they are.

I don't steal. Not because it is illegal, but simply because I find it immoral.
A psychopath may not steal, but only because of the fear of punishment. That's the difference. That's why they are not an important part of human neurodiversity.


Your so so wrong,jailing people without evidence of a actually crime is knocking on the door of genocide.

The Nazi's put asocials in camps and asocials are sort of non violent sociopaths.

Remember at one time autism was considered a type of sociopathy. Die autistischen psychopaten im kindasalter,meaning autistic psychopathy in childhood was Hans Asperger's original term for autism.

Your way out of bounds unless your in Nazi Germany,or modern day Morocco where gays get three years in prison for being gay.I have a post about that in LGBT forum.

What you calling for is fascist,I will stop short of calling you a fascist personally but your ideas are fascist.


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AprilR
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11 May 2020, 2:24 pm

I think a lot about this. If psychopathy is something related to brain difference, it means it is not a choice. Just because someone is more prone to be violent/commit crimes by nature it doesn't mean they should be eliminated since being born like this wasn't their choice. Maybe they should be kept under surveillance?



roronoa79
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11 May 2020, 2:32 pm

Even if it could be eliminated as in 'reversed' instead of just killing them I still don't think I could condone it. We need to be focusing on treatment and management before we focus on a genetic o. As has been stated, they don't choose to be like this and the vast majority are non-violent, more manipulative and narcissistic. I've had at least one sociopath friend that I knew of and he was a decent enough guy. He could be self-centered and obnoxious (but then I knew him in high school so that's a lot of us), but he wasn't a monster. He was at most like a mischievous cat, if that makes any sense.
Also I (ironically) sympathize with them as someone on the spectrum bc we are also treated as undesirable, broken, dangerous, a burden that it would be easier to be without. Even surveilling them would be wrong, since it's an invasion of privacy and an assumption of guilt before the fact.


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AprilR
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11 May 2020, 2:42 pm

^ That's true, i also kind of empathize with those people, but not just because they're sociopathic. I am generally curious about them and how their brain works, whether they can connect with someone or even want to? Whether they feel lonely and so on.
I don't believe just because they're born with a certain characteristic they're bound to be evil.



kraftiekortie
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11 May 2020, 2:44 pm

PEOPLE TRANSCEND THEIR GENES.

Even if there is a “Psychopath” gene (I don’t think there is one), no one has the right to punish a person merely because he/she “has” the gene.



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11 May 2020, 2:48 pm

OP, with a little more you might be reaching some kind of self-awareness...keep going, just a bit more, you'll see what I'm talking about.


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vermontsavant
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11 May 2020, 2:52 pm

The homicidal triad is:

Starting fires

Bed wetting

Harming/killing small animals


Sociopaths can't be diagnosed until adulthood because all teenagers profile as such but it's the "homicidal triad" not psychopathy that indicates a risk to murder or do serious violent harm.Criminal profilers don't put a lot of emphasis on psychopathy as an indication of criminal behavior,the homicidal triad is most often looked at.


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AprilR
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11 May 2020, 2:55 pm

I think maybe a reason people hate sociopaths is because they're always portrayed as mass murderers in media. It may be true that the crime rate is high among them but even then i don't think highlighting some thing that is not under people's control is right. It would only make those people more likely to oppose society and it's rules. If someone commits a crime, it is a choice.



kraftiekortie
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11 May 2020, 3:01 pm

I don’t really care for the psychopathic/sociopathic ethos.

I’m not fascinated by it.

Many people seem to be fascinated about it. I don’t think it’s morally wrong to be fascinated about it—as long as this fascination doesn’t hurt me personally.



AprilR
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11 May 2020, 3:08 pm

^ True, i am interested in this type of thing but i also haven't encountered any sociopath/psychopaths in my lifetime and have no trauma related to it so it is not hard for me to discuss.
I am aware that this is not the case for everyone here, i am deeply sorry if i unintentionally offended anyone.



thinkinginpictures
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11 May 2020, 3:14 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
Your so so wrong,jailing people without evidence of a actually crime is knocking on the door of genocide.

The Nazi's put asocials in camps and asocials are sort of non violent sociopaths.

Remember at one time autism was considered a type of sociopathy. Die autistischen psychopaten im kindasalter,meaning autistic psychopathy in childhood was Hans Asperger's original term for autism.

Your way out of bounds unless your in Nazi Germany,or modern day Morocco where gays get three years in prison for being gay.I have a post about that in LGBT forum.

What you calling for is fascist,I will stop short of calling you a fascist personally but your ideas are fascist.


Psychopaths commit moral crimes. Bullying.
Most bullies (if not 100 %) are psychopaths. That's enough reason to punish them for who they are, not what they do.

Eliminating bullying can only be achieved through mass-incarceration of psychopaths.
Let them work in labor camps for a lifetime.

AprilR wrote:
I think a lot about this. If psychopathy is something related to brain difference, it means it is not a choice. Just because someone is more prone to be violent/commit crimes by nature it doesn't mean they should be eliminated since being born like this wasn't their choice. Maybe they should be kept under surveillance?


That's a free-will debate. While I do agree we have no free will, we still have a will (urge). It's just that it isn't free.

You still make a choice, it's just that you weren't free to make that choice, but that does not matter to me.
What matters is if you felt good or bad about the choice you made.

Psychopaths make a choice of bullying. It's not that they were free to make another choice - they weren't.
The key is that they felt good about it.

That's enough to jail them for life in a labor camp, forced to do hard work.



Last edited by thinkinginpictures on 11 May 2020, 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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11 May 2020, 3:15 pm

Please don’t be sorry, April.

I sort of do the same thing sometimes. I can discuss most any thing. I’m sometimes not sensitive to others’ trauma.

But there are those who believe that giving attention to mass murderers somehow legitimizes what they did.

I believe in a middle ground.....that the motivations of mass murderers should be discussed....but that we must acknowledge and emphasize the heinousness of their acts.



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11 May 2020, 3:27 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
... Psychopaths, regardless of whether they commit a crime, should be treated as criminals for the very thing of being psychopaths...
I had forgotten why I have your PMs blocked. Thank you for reminding me.


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11 May 2020, 3:30 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe in a middle ground.....that the motivations of mass murderers should be discussed....but that we must acknowledge and emphasize the heinousness of their acts.

I agree with this approach.
Understanding what motivates mass murderers gives opportunity to prevent more mass murders.
That does not make their acts any more acceptable.


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vermontsavant
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11 May 2020, 3:43 pm

[quote="thinkinginpictures"][/quote]

Psychopaths commit moral crimes. Bullying.
Most bullies (if not 100 %) are psychopaths. That's enough reason to punish them for who they are, not what they do.

Eliminating bullying can only be achieved through mass-incarceration of psychopaths.
Let them work in labor camps for a lifetime.

Bullying is not a crime,not everything immoral deserves incarceration,should we imprison smokers,drinkers or jail time for telling a lie or committing adultery.Everyone would be in jail not even fundamentalist Islamic countries incarcerate those types of immoral acts,some Muslim countries imprison homosexuals but not all.


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vermontsavant
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11 May 2020, 3:47 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Please don’t be sorry, April.

I sort of do the same thing sometimes. I can discuss most any thing. I’m sometimes not sensitive to others’ trauma.

But there are those who believe that giving attention to mass murderers somehow legitimizes what they did.

I believe in a middle ground.....that the motivations of mass murderers should be discussed....but that we must acknowledge and emphasize the heinousness of their acts.
What most psychologists and criminal profilers track is not psychopathy but the "homicidal triad",which is: Bed wetting,starting fires and unreasonable cruelty toward animals.


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