Page 5 of 9 [ 131 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Gromit
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 May 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,296
Location: In Cognito

12 May 2020, 5:42 am

vermontsavant wrote:
Your right, the official psyche jargon is the McDonald triad.But you get the point.

What I meant was that the evidence for the homicidal or McDonald triad is shaky, so you shouldn't state it as established fact. A point made more directly in the link that The_Walrus provided:
The_Walrus wrote:
The homicidal triad was quite popular at one time but is today considered an urban myth: https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog ... urban-myth



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,284
Location: Australia

12 May 2020, 6:16 am

vermontsavant wrote:
Most psychopaths are non violent and are just master manipulator's and narcissists but and for the most part end up lonely and rarely cause serious violent harm to everyone.


You don't have to be antisocial if you are a psychopath.
It is just easier to become so if you have no empathy with the other person.

vermontsavant wrote:
I don't know enough about psychology to differentiate a psycopath from a sociopath but there isn't much difference,the difference is very nuanced.


Psychopaths are born.
Sociopaths are made.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,




Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,284
Location: Australia

12 May 2020, 6:26 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Most sociopaths/psychopaths are not “socially isolated.”

In fact, they can be rather charming and even charismatic. Look at Charles Manson.


Sociopaths are damaged people.
Psychopaths are simply born without any degree of empathy.
Psychopaths are often exploiters of other people who have a conscience/moral-compass.
Though they don't have to be.
They choose to be.

Psychopaths are often considered rather intelligent.
Sociopaths, no so much. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,




Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

12 May 2020, 6:40 am

Gromit wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Your right, the official psyche jargon is the McDonald triad.But you get the point.

What I meant was that the evidence for the homicidal or McDonald triad is shaky, so you shouldn't state it as established fact. A point made more directly in the link that The_Walrus provided:
The_Walrus wrote:
The homicidal triad was quite popular at one time but is today considered an urban myth: https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog ... urban-myth
Bed wetting and fire starting maybe shaky but the abuse or killing of animals is definitley still taken seriously as a sign of future violence.


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined
WrongPlanet is rancid,goodbye forever


vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

12 May 2020, 6:43 am

Pepe wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Most psychopaths are non violent and are just master manipulator's and narcissists but and for the most part end up lonely and rarely cause serious violent harm to everyone.


You don't have to be antisocial if you are a psychopath.
It is just easier to become so if you have no empathy with the other person.

vermontsavant wrote:
I don't know enough about psychology to differentiate a psycopath from a sociopath but there isn't much difference,the difference is very nuanced.


Psychopaths are born.
Sociopaths are made.
I'm not sure that is true,the psychology profession has never formally specified a difference.


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined
WrongPlanet is rancid,goodbye forever


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 71,565
Location: Queens, NYC

12 May 2020, 6:43 am

Yep. I believe you are right about that....



Wolfram87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,976
Location: Sweden

12 May 2020, 6:44 am

domineekee wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
OP continues his proud history of unironically being in favour of the sort of things people write dystopian fiction about.

I've been hoping that you would arrive and help clear this up like you did last time.

:)
Appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm pretty beat at the moment. Been volunteering making medical protective gear.


_________________
I'm bored out of my skull, let's play a different game. Let's pay a visit down below and cast the world in flame.


vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

12 May 2020, 6:55 am

I want to clarify to those who argued or criticized my mention of psychopathy and autism,my point was this:

The OP said that sociopath's should be put in preventative detention or put in some work camp up on the North Korea/China border LOL.

My only point was that there was a time when autism was associated with psychopathy (since debunked) and that the OP should then take a "judge not lest ye be judged" attitude.That was my point I was trying to make by bring up "autistic psychopathy in childhood".

I was just saying we were once viewed in the light of psychopathy,so don't judge.

As far as the Mcdonald triad goes,I am not absolutley saying it's right,I am not sure I see a connection with bed wetting and murder,the others maybe.

I was just pointing out that the psyche community puts more stake in that than whether a person is a sociopath,there may be psychologists who no longer believe in the Mcdonald triad but no more so than psychopathy equaling violent behavior either.


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined
WrongPlanet is rancid,goodbye forever


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,284
Location: Australia

12 May 2020, 7:39 am

vermontsavant wrote:
Pepe wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Most psychopaths are non violent and are just master manipulator's and narcissists but and for the most part end up lonely and rarely cause serious violent harm to everyone.


You don't have to be antisocial if you are a psychopath.
It is just easier to become so if you have no empathy with the other person.

vermontsavant wrote:
I don't know enough about psychology to differentiate a psycopath from a sociopath but there isn't much difference,the difference is very nuanced.


Psychopaths are born.
Sociopaths are made.
I'm not sure that is true,the psychology profession has never formally specified a

difference.


Quote:
Home » Blog » Differences Between a Psychopath vs Sociopath

Society has conspired with Hollywood to put two seemingly-sexy psychology terms into our collective consciousness — psychopath and sociopath. Psychopath and sociopath are pop psychology terms for what psychiatry calls antisocial personality disorder. These two terms are not well-defined in the psychology research literature — hence the confusion about them.

Nonetheless, there are some general similarities as well as differences between these two personality types. Both sociopaths and psychopaths have a pervasive pattern of disregard for the safety and rights of others. Deceit and manipulation are central features to both types of personality. Contrary to popular belief, a psychopath or sociopath is not necessarily violent.

The common features of a psychopath and sociopath lie in their shared diagnosis — antisocial personality disorder. The DSM-51 defines antisocial personality as someone have 3 or more of the following traits:

Regularly breaks or flouts the law
Constantly lies and deceives others
Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead
Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
Has little regard for the safety of others
Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt

In both cases, some signs or symptoms are nearly always present before age 15. By the time a person is an adult, they are well on their way to becoming a psychopath or sociopath.
Traits of a Psychopath

Psychology researchers generally believe that psychopaths tends to be born — it’s likely a genetic predisposition — while sociopaths tend to be made by their environment. (Which is not to say that psychopaths may not also suffer from some sort of childhood trauma.) Psychopathy might be related to physiological brain differences. Research has shown psychopaths have underdeveloped components of the brain commonly thought to be responsible for emotion regulation and impulse control.

Psychopaths, in general, have a hard time forming real emotional attachments with others. Instead, they form artificial, shallow relationships designed to be manipulated in a way that most benefits the psychopath. People are seen as pawns to be used to forward the psychopath’s goals. Psychopaths rarely feel guilt regarding any of their behaviors, no matter how much they hurt others.

But psychopaths can often be seen by others as being charming and trustworthy, holding steady, normal jobs. Some even have families and seemingly-loving relationships with a partner. While they tend to be well-educated, they may also have learned a great deal on their own.

When a psychopath engages in criminal behavior, they tend to do so in a way that minimizes risk to themselves. They will carefully plan criminal activity to ensure they don’t get caught, having contingency plans in place for every possibility.


Quote:
Traits of a Sociopath

Researchers tend to believe that sociopathy is the result of environmental factors, such as a child or teen’s upbringing in a very negative household that resulted in physical abuse, emotional abuse, or childhood trauma.

Sociopaths, in general, tend to be more impulsive and erratic in their behavior than their psychopath counterparts. While also having difficulties in forming attachments to others, some sociopaths may be able to form an attachment to a like-minded group or person. Unlike psychopaths, most sociopaths don’t hold down long-term jobs or present much of a normal family life to the outside world.

When a sociopath engages in criminal behavior, they may do so in an impulsive and largely unplanned manner, with little regard for the risks or consequences of their actions. They may become agitated and angered easily, sometimes resulting in violent outbursts. These kinds of behaviors increase a sociopath’s chances of being apprehended.


Quote:
Summary

Psychopathy and sociopathy are different cultural labels applied to the diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder. Up to 3 percent of the population may qualify for a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder. This disorder is more common among males and mostly seen in people with an alcohol or substance abuse problem, or in forensic settings such as prisons. Psychopaths tend to be more manipulative, can be seen by others as more charming, lead a semblance of a normal life, and minimize risk in criminal activities. Sociopaths tend to be more erratic, rage-prone, and unable to lead as much of a normal life. When sociopaths engage in criminal activity, they tend to do so in a reckless manner without regard to consequences.


https://psychcentral.com/blog/differenc ... sociopath/


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,




Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,170
Location: Poland

12 May 2020, 7:43 am

Pepe wrote:
Sociopaths are damaged people.
Psychopaths are simply born without any degree of empathy.

That's consistent with how I understand the topic.
Sociopaths are people who developed antisocial personality disorder. They feel some irrational need to break law and cause harm. It's currently unerstood as a possible outcome of growing up in very abusive environment.
"Primary psychopathy" is a neurodiverse trait of shallow emotional life.
Combination of the two makes a "true psychopath".

From what I understand, a person with "psychopathic brain" can productively and peacefully function within the society, if they believes cooperation pays off.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
***** ***


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,560
Location: temperate zone

12 May 2020, 7:59 am

vermontsavant wrote:
I want to clarify to those who argued or criticized my mention of psychopathy and autism,my point was this:

The OP said that sociopath's should be put in preventative detention or put in some work camp up on the North Korea/China border LOL.

My only point was that there was a time when autism was associated with psychopathy (since debunked) and that the OP should then take a "judge not lest ye be judged" attitude.That was my point I was trying to make by bring up "autistic psychopathy in childhood".

I was just saying we were once viewed in the light of psychopathy,so don't judge.

A.


No. They did NOT view us the same way. Thats what YOU don't understand about WE all are saying.

They used a label that sounded similar, but the label did not mean the same thing. Dr. Asperger did not view aspies as a threat to society.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,560
Location: temperate zone

12 May 2020, 8:03 am

vermontsavant wrote:
Gromit wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Your right, the official psyche jargon is the McDonald triad.But you get the point.

What I meant was that the evidence for the homicidal or McDonald triad is shaky, so you shouldn't state it as established fact. A point made more directly in the link that The_Walrus provided:
The_Walrus wrote:
The homicidal triad was quite popular at one time but is today considered an urban myth: https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog ... urban-myth
Bed wetting and fire starting maybe shaky but the abuse or killing of animals is definitley still taken seriously as a sign of future violence.


But I do agree with you here. Far greater numbers of children bedwet than grow up to be Bernie Madoff, or the Teflon Don. But I get the impression that torturing animals does seem to go with growing up to be a serial killer.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,560
Location: temperate zone

12 May 2020, 8:06 am

vermontsavant wrote:
Pepe wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Most psychopaths are non violent and are just master manipulator's and narcissists but and for the most part end up lonely and rarely cause serious violent harm to everyone.


You don't have to be antisocial if you are a psychopath.
It is just easier to become so if you have no empathy with the other person.

vermontsavant wrote:
I don't know enough about psychology to differentiate a psycopath from a sociopath but there isn't much difference,the difference is very nuanced.


Psychopaths are born.
Sociopaths are made.
I'm not sure that is true,the psychology profession has never formally specified a difference.


Maybe so. But according this lady doctor apparently the DO recognize a difference, even if its unofficial.



vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

12 May 2020, 8:34 am

naturalplastic wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
I want to clarify to those who argued or criticized my mention of psychopathy and autism,my point was this:

The OP said that sociopath's should be put in preventative detention or put in some work camp up on the North Korea/China border LOL.

My only point was that there was a time when autism was associated with psychopathy (since debunked) and that the OP should then take a "judge not lest ye be judged" attitude.That was my point I was trying to make by bring up "autistic psychopathy in childhood".

I was just saying we were once viewed in the light of psychopathy,so don't judge.

A.


No. They did NOT view us the same way. Thats what YOU don't understand about WE all are saying.

They used a label that sounded similar, but the label did not mean the same thing. Dr. Asperger did not view aspies as a threat to society.
Right! he was alluding to more of the asocial/schizoid personality type of sociopath use of the word(the word sociopath or psychopath is not used in that way anymore) but the moral of the story and main point was still "judge not lest ye be judged".That was what I meant the OP!

in earlier times the psychology profession was more moralistic and things like autism and schizophrenia were viewed in a more moral context.schizophrenia was viewed as extreme self absorbtion and the term autism described schizophrenics who lived in there own world.In the begining early autism doctor's thought autism was early childhood schozophrenia.

If early autism doctor's knew then what the psyche profession knows now,likely the word autism would never had been used,they would have said,childhood pervasive developmental disorder or something,but autism stuck and is here to stay.

In early times autism and schizophrenia were viewed in a moral context and withdrawn people were viewed as sociopathic.

But none of this is the point,I was only trying to say to the OP "don't judge"


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined
WrongPlanet is rancid,goodbye forever


vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

12 May 2020, 8:37 am

naturalplastic wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Pepe wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Most psychopaths are non violent and are just master manipulator's and narcissists but and for the most part end up lonely and rarely cause serious violent harm to everyone.


You don't have to be antisocial if you are a psychopath.
It is just easier to become so if you have no empathy with the other person.

vermontsavant wrote:
I don't know enough about psychology to differentiate a psycopath from a sociopath but there isn't much difference,the difference is very nuanced.


Psychopaths are born.
Sociopaths are made.
I'm not sure that is true,the psychology profession has never formally specified a difference.


Maybe so. But according this lady doctor apparently the DO recognize a difference, even if its unofficial.

This very well may be right,I have never claimed to be a shrink,I personally have never heard a distinct difference between the two but what do I know.


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined
WrongPlanet is rancid,goodbye forever


aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,128

12 May 2020, 9:21 am



"Psychology researchers generally believe that psychopaths tends to be born —
it’s likely a genetic predisposition"

Association Doesn't Necessarily Mean Causation;
Of Course It Doesn't as again These are all Labels (Psychopath/Sociopath)
With Behaviors That Do or Do Not Check Lists of Acceptable Social Behavior.

There are many Disorders Associated with Poverty of Empathy;
Whether Or not There Are Biological or Environmental Determinants.
A Lack of Empathy in A Social Animal That Depends on Cooperation
for Survival is inherently Paramount to Survival, Overall; Read That Generalization Term Again (Overall).

No No NO; Psychopathy is not JUST SIMPLY A Human Born Without the Ability for Empathy and Remorse.

(Everything Human IS A SPECTRUM) except for Labels of Course that Never Capture the Whole Human 'Story'.

On The Other Hands; When My Dentist Works on my Teeth, or if i Ever
Need Bodily Repair by a Surgeon; i'm Not Concerned with Warm And
Fuzzies Received During the Craft of their Work; i don't want any Shaky
Nervous Hands and Mistakes; i Want Anxiety-Free Focus in the Moment to Get the Job done correctly.
In Other Words, There are days When 'Human Affect' is Not Necessary for Human Survival in Specialities
That Require only a Step-By-Step-Craft to get a Job done Correctly with fewest Mistakes Possible; True,
Not someone
You want for
a 'Wet Nurse';
But We Need Neurodiversity
to Get All the Jobs Done in
the Best Possible Ways Now
For 'TOTAL BEST HUMAN SURVIVAL, OVERALL'.

PRO LOVE TIP: The Best Leaders Have Empathy:
The Worst Leaders Have NO SIGNS OF EMPATHY.
But Again, Remember, the Job of a Leader, is more than Repairing Heart Valves or Car Engines.

Leaders Take care of the Whole Tribe; All Needs: Mind, Body, And 'Soul' (Emotional Intelligences and the such)

Voila: Trump, The Worst Leader the United States has ever seen; empirically Measurable as such;
And Growing More Evident Each Day in a Crisis That Requires Human Empathy for the Good of the Entire Tribe.

In the 'Olden Days', When Human Empathy Grew (Feelings) More as 'Flowers than Thorns on a Rose Vine'; 'the
Dude' would have been Pushed off 'a Cliff'; in Lieu of No Other Way of Getting Rid of the 'Human Virus' in Leadership.

Emotional Intelligence is the Intelligence That Has Helped Humans Survive the Most In Social Cooperation.

^^^
This is What Science Says Is True on this Matter of Fact; For Most Folks It's Just Frigging Common Sense (Feelings).

Someone with 'Empty Cold Eyes' Like Elon Musk Might Take You To Mars;
But On the Other Hand, He May Have no Clue what it means to Leave Your Heart In SanFrancisco.

^^^
Generally Speaking Humans Who are Lacking Emotional Intelligence, Will not Understand the Metaphor above.

And With No Heart at All; Like a 'Spoiled Brat' With No 'Soul'; He Might Open Up Your Work Place; even
if it means a Certain Percentage of Folks Will Likely Die With a Disease that he only sees as Collateral Damage;
But Of Course, Seeing Humans As Tools; Only Cogs in Machines, To Get Whatever Job He Wants Done Next.

'He' Makes a Better Engineer than Leader of Anything;

Aside Note: This is another one of my many, many, many Special Interests;
The Average Human Being 'these days' has the Attention Span Literally of Less than A Gold Fish Twitter Breath.

This is the way i learn, and continue to improve my Fuller Human Epigenetic Potential; Blue Whale Style.

Much too Big For one Comment, So the rest in the Next Comment:

Do Scroll By If 'You can't Hold Your Breath' this Long...

And to Even Be More Clear this Is Just my Style of Dry Humor too based in fact;
some folks get it; and some folks likely never will; but change is possible.


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick