The view of those who practice chastity

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I didn't know you had given your word in the first place. I must have missed that message. No commitment here, come and go as you please--I do. You are probably right, the Catholic sexual doctrine does not really sell well these days, even among those of us who don't get laid. Even back in the day it was a hard sell, lot of lapsers and repenters. Me, I don't really think I would have a prob with chastity, lol. I may go completely abstinent at any point in the future, though not for moral reasons.

I applaud the intention to go get a job and find a future spouse, that's really the main thing or so they say. See ya later.

Thanks, although it wasn't that I had literally given my word, it's only that I mentioned that I wanted to start a dialogue like this because, as I've mentioned above I have personal experience in the subject of chastity; I've struggled with it in the past, and have, and now do experience the peace and freedom of living chastely.

I try to avoid mentioning things loosely, when I say I'm going to do something, I want to mean it and stay by it no matter what. So when I mention wanting to engage in this dialogue, I want to like go through with it. But like you said, it's better for me to focus more on personal life and continue living the Faith by looking for my future spouse and having a Catholic family.

Ya can't depart and also get the last word in

Oddly enough, I wanted to reply most of all to your signature. I feel it could stand some modification for grammar:
""O Mary [who] conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse [to] Thee, and all those who do not have recourse to Thee, especially all enemies of the Church, and all those recommended to Thee."

-Modified version of Saint Maximilian Kolbe's Miraculous Medal Prayer

Glory to God
and
Hail Mary!"

This implies that Mary was not married to Joseph, because had she conceived naturally within wedlock, that would be without sin, no?
I have some beautiful paintings of the Annuciation, which I collected because they feature Gabriel. It is surprisingly difficult to obtain high-resolution photos of even Archangels, but I have one of each, painstakingly collected. I am trying to achieve better visualizations of the four.

Other than that I will comment that Chastity means different things to different people, to some it means refraining from sex with others only, but I think you mean actually avoiding orgasm altogether. It is not quite possible for a male to avoid tumescence and erections from time to time, particularly early morning, but I think it is possible to avoid orgasm with lowered libido.

Admittedly a lot of my explorations of my own psyche revolved around sexual seduction from my own anima and eventually being taken, a bit like Dante with Beatrice, to go explore my own shadow.

This is where I tend to look at sexuality from the perspective that there's not an unconditional 'good' in either abstinence/chastity/no-fap, nor is there an unconditional good in sex drugs and rock & roll, orgiastic sex, or masturbating two or three times a day - or more. Its easier to qualify on the active side because the lack of activity is just the lack of activity. On the active side one can look at it in the way one looks at the use of various forms of drug - ie. is a person using to explore their own mind and get deeper knowledge of themselves or are they doing it to numb themselves, hide pain with neurochemical pleasure, without the goal to learn a thing or with the goal to even disappear?

I think sexuality and psychedelics - put together - can be an incredible tool for self-exploration, it's just that here too it can be a slippery slope and one needs to be careful not to let it go from being a search of self and cosmos to 'that thing I do on Saturdays for entertainment'. It's not completely unsafe for the later to happen at least a little, and towards the end when you've essentially gotten most of the messages you need and are going after the last few scraps then it may be that your number of productive rather than recreational sessions start decreasing, but that's also where you need to then know when to taper off and how - and that's a question that only a given person can answer particularly well for themselves.

Sorry I have difficulty figuring out how much I should explain or discuss something, although in this instance, there is still a bit of a misunderstanding on things. My position and definition of chastity is not there being no orgasm, but rather not engaging in sexual activity outside of marriage, and the only sexual activity allowed inside of marriage being coitus. I'm not sure wether or not no orgasm would be an ideal, although I do think it would be a good thing if orgasm was far from the no. 1 concern during the procreative act.

Thanks for helping me correct my signature, I missed the "to" in "... pray for us who have recourse to Thee!" but the "O Mary conceived without sin..." part, actually refers to the Marian Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, that Our Lady was conceived without Original Sin, and thus Her Human Nature isn't fallen. The belief was held by Christians since some of the earliest days of the Church, but controversy arose when St. Thomas Aquinas, despite being one the greatest intellects in the history of the Catholic Church, objected to the belief based off of his application of Aristotelian philosophy to the issue. (It is important to note that neither St. Thomas Aquinas, nor any other opponent to the Immaculate Conception prior to Luther's time, based their objections off of Sacred Scripture.) The controversy was finally settled in 1854, when Blessed Pius IX issued the Apostolic Constitution Ineffabilis Deus, one of the few times in history where a Pope exorcised his Papal Infallibility and made an Ex Cathedra statement.

If you have the time and interest, here's an hour-long video on the Miraculous Medal and some of the miracles associated with it, it actually touches on St. Maximilian Kolbe himself and his use of the Medal towards the end:

Sorry, I realise now that my reply about the cons of chastity was quite flippant because I thought it really was obvious, but this has turned into a very non-mainstream thread.

Mainstream reasons not to follow chastity:

1) it's boring. You only live once. Enjoy your life.

2) people aren't religious enough to curb their pleasure for a vague God-like figure who may or may not exist and who may or may not care what they do in their private lives.

3) fear. What if you get stuck with someone incompatible? What if they want sex 3 times a week and once a month is enough for you? Will you both be happy with a compromise? Will it lead to arguments, frustrations and hurt feelings? How will you handle that?

What if you marry a woman who finds out after marriage she suffers from vaginismus (pain during intercourse) or endometriosis (also painful) and you can't have intercourse. Are you willing to accept that? Will you support her through treatment or will you feel bitter and rejected? Will you feel like you were cheated?

Are you aware that most women can't orgasm from penetration alone? Do you understand the need for foreplay and good communication? You need to find someone reasonable and loving whom you really love and you need to be reasonable too in order to find compromises to handle those issues should they arise. You need open communication.

4) the difficulty of staying abstinent whilst courting and you've got lovey dovey hormones whooshing around willing you to breed like a rabbit. You need to discuss this with your partner. Will you decide just to not be alone together. To only meet in public places if you are alone? To always have a chaperone? Do you both agree on when a chaperone is appropriate or when it's overkill? How will you get to know each other if you've always got this friend hanging out with you?

Strangely enough I forgot about this thread till I saw this article on Facebook.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/why-i-believe-couples-shouldnt-live-together-until-after-they-are-married_uk_5af33761e4b07c9063dd5718?ncid=fcbklnkukhpmg00000001

You may find some interesting points.

I liked this quote. It is sensible whatever path you choose:

I had to look up "anima," =soul. My first glimpses of the astral were from experiences with marijuana, which made me doubt my atheist materialist worldview and believe there were beings with whom one can communicate. I am not familiar with the strong psychedelics, they scare me actually, I do not like the notion of losing control. The idea I am going to trip hard for six hours is not something I like to anticipate. Mild, measured doses is more my style, where I retain control. That is why I stuck with marijuana, although in the high doses available these days in concentrate form, it too can equal or surpass the strong psychedelics, it can become dangerous. H. sapiens always takes something innocuous like weed, and manufactures a weapon like THC concentrate with it. That seems to be the way of the savage ape.

Marijuana does operate as an aphrodisiac under the right circumstances, and it is possible to get into relationships with succubi and inccubi, they are not very intelligent or deep but driven by their appetite. If you're not feeding them regular they get displeased. That is about all there is to those things. Feed me, and once fed they are content for a while.

As for Sex Magick, as described by Kraig, I don't know, it doesn't sound much different than what I knew, you can dress it up and get fancy and assume the form of a deity but I don't know, it seems a little funny to me. Not my bag. I did try a little working, if anything it backfired. No more of that.

Anyway, experiences with marijuana opened my eyes to the occult, and I eventually I bought some books by Donald Tyson, and then due to a Reddit ecommendation, Donald Michael Kraig. I began practicing for real. Kraig's book was the big breakthrough for me, he broke things down into simple exercises and had a down-to-earth, conversational style that appealed to me.

With a single banishing ritual, suggested in Modern Magick, 3rd edition, by DMK, I put all intoxicants aside, for me that means weed and alcohol, about two years ago. I believe that using substances is a rabbit-hole that one can just spend time in. Time passes, not much gets done, I mean the marijuana user is basically static in every respect, and our time is limited. You can turn around, and a year's gone, it's like that. Staying sober all the time, I notice this world I'm living in, and it is vivid and real to me, whereas the astral is rather dreamy and unreal, and not many of the senses are operative.

So, I'm about keeping it real and enduring in this world strictly sober now. As a side benefit, health has improved, and I find I can cope with things without using weed or alcohol at all. On the contrary side, I notice about everybody else drinks, and they are determined to keep drinking, too. I avoid situations where people go drinking, I don't find it attractive anymore.

I take that to mean that no orgasm is permissible outside of marital coitus. This would mean, no masturbation, and even a night emission, though unconscious, would be sin and need to be confessed. That is severe indeed for the many single people in the world. I don't know how teenagers would cope, but older folk might get by just fine, speaking as an older person. You know, I find myself "sinning" a lot less, not through virtue lol. Just lack of energy.



There is a huge difference between "Mary, conceived without sin" and "Mary, who conceived without sin." The first implies Mary herself was conceived without sin by her parents. The second implies the Holy Spirit invested her with child and is, I think, the proper and intended meaning. That is why I suggest that you add the "who" to your signature, otherwise you are implying Mary herself was born from the Holy Spirit, which would be an original heresy I think, at least I have never heard of it before.

If you have the time and interest, here's an hour-long video on the Miraculous Medal and some of the miracles associated with it, it actually touches on St. Maximilian Kolbe himself and his use of the Medal towards the end:
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No, I'm just a forum dweller, lonely and isolated and here chatting with others in order to get some social exposure.

I do not have strong opinions on the Annuciation, it is possible in the view of magicians, we do allow that spirits can breed with mortals and vice versa producing spirit children, it is also possible the Holy Spirit bred with Mary and that the offspring of Joseph then took on the attributes of the Holy Spirit and became of Him. Or, rather that the Holy Spirit reinvented the usual terms and simply made flesh from Word as it is said He can do. Perhaps only lesser spirits require the spark from Man, the physical insemination.

Remember the three wise men that came to offer gifts to the newborn, the three magi, they were magicians.

Okay I'll patch that one up, in Jungian terms there's anima and animus. Going back on old-fashioned bimodal gender the anima is unmanifest feminine potential in males and in women the animus is unmanifest masculine potential. That ends up being something like a counter-weight or counter balance in certain senses for much of your life which helps you juggle complexities in life or get through tight spaces. In a way it's a bit like your subconscious / unconscious having something of an identity of its own as a base that you can interact from. That gets tricky to a degree because it doesn't 'answer back' in the usual sense and so it's a bit like you're testing different things by feel to try to hone in on the position that it occupies.


I've found that nearly all of it could be classed as 'psychological' but that there will be a handful of things you might run into that won't have a better explanation than the nature of consciousness reaching deeper into the fabric of reality than just chemicals getting lobbed back and forth by neural receptors. For example when you get clobbered by the kinds of compound synchronicity that even putting it over the denominator of say 60,000 synchronicities a day that didn't happen multiplied by the number of days you've been alive still leaves as 1000:1 or greater if left to random chance. There are other experiences - like intensity of contact with an entity causing certain kinds of sensory discomfort (like being so bright that it hurts your eyes to look), or biolelectrical sensations like kundalini in the spine that there *could* be biological cause for but to the degree that they're unknown, unstudied, we don't have great explanations for how the nervous system could cough these up, and not talked about outside of esoteric or traditional religious circles much at least puts a question mark by them as potentially salient in pointing to something more rather than strictly neurologically confabulated experiences. Even with the things that are just psychological, to the extent that they can feel overpoweringly real you rather quickly see what they can deliver - ie. deep changes to patterns in your own life and approach to life that you wouldn't have previously known how to access. You may not be able to affect change remotely but you can indeed change yourself in ways that you never otherwise would have thought possible.

Night emissions are not considered sinful because they are done unconsciously and thus, do not deliberately employ the will. However some theologians believe that night emissions may be a sign, that you have weaknesses to this sin somewhere in your interior. I have been free from masturbation since January 18th, provided I don't let my guard down, and avoid situations that give me excessive stress, or make myself vulnerable in some other way.


Our Lady was conceived by Saints Joachim and Anne. Our Lady being "conceived without sin" simply means Our Lady was conceived without humanity's fallen nature, it doesn't mean the Holy Spirit brought about a miraculous child somehow in Saint Anne's womb; Christ wasn't Immaculately Conceived in Our Lady's womb, He was Incarnated. There is nothing sinful about conception in and of itself rather, due to original sin, any graces the parent may have don't get passed on from parent to child, while vices and defects and the like do; and thus the child is born with a fallen nature.


Magi original refered to an Iranian priest tribe that engaged in the various ceremonies and practices of Zoroastrian religion. By the time of Christ, the term came to refer anyone in the Middle East who experimented with various religious practices and beliefs, which may or may not have included magic. There is a fair bit of debate within the Church about Saints Melchior, Caspar and Balthasar; where they came from and how they came across the Star of Bethlehem. But it is generally believed that the Magi were experimenting with many religious practices before coming across the Star of Bethlehem and thus, it's not unreasonable to assume that magic was one of the things they practiced at some time.