Page 2 of 6 [ 92 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

28 May 2020, 7:11 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Can we please stop showing concern for people who break the law and suffer the consequences?

Using an allegedly forged $20 bill is not punishable by death. Peaceful protesting is not punishable by tear gas and rubber bullets.

In a just society, the police act within the law, resorting in the first instance to words rather than force, and when force is required, only using the minimum necessary, in a safe and proportionate fashion.

Blindly defending police brutality is not standing up for justice. It is the opposite.

Nothing I’ve seen on news looks peaceful at all. If your home, business or car was burnt in the protest you’d feel differently.

What that police did was wron and what the protesters did was wrong. Two wrongs don’t make a right, thise businesses and people didn’t kill the guy, yet it’s them that got hurt.
Rioting is never ok response


_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die


sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

28 May 2020, 7:15 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Conservative states likely have more gun rights, because that's their philosophy.
Liberal states likely have fewer gun rights, because that's their philosophy.


This does not have to do with gun rights. I am a left libertarian/anarchist/whatever you want to call me and I firmly believe in my right to own a gun. Because as events like these have shown, those on the left are at far more risk of government violence than the right. Not to mention that as a queer person I know the real risk of violence that people like me face from private citizens as well. I live in a house with three other queers in the heart of Trump country so you can bet we're going to make them think twice if they think we're easy targets for their bigoted violence.

My issue is with armed men forcibly storming a statehouse en masse without the police so much as lifting a finger.
If it had been the exact same circumstances but with an armed leftist group instead, conservatives would be apoplectic--full panic mode. I wouldn't put it past them to call for martial law if something like that happened.
You look me in the eye and tell me that leftists doing the same thing would receive the same treatment from the police (well, not really look me in the eyes since this is the internet but I digress).


Forced? They got a permit and peaceful assembled. Cleaned their trash up and left.
Meanwhile the Portland police are under orders to stand by and watch antifa riot and destroy property.

Sorry police can’t attack peaceful protesters with a permit just cause they have guns are aren’t your political party.


_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 45,646
Location: Stendec

28 May 2020, 7:17 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Can we please stop showing concern for people who break the law and suffer the consequences?
... Blindly defending police brutality is not standing up for justice. It is the opposite.
Blindly defending brutality against police is not standing up for justice, either.

In a civilized society, people don't attack police in Los Angeles in retaliation for a police attack in Minneapolis.

I am not condoning violence (or murder) on either side, but to paint ALL police as solely responsible for the actions of even ONE police officer would be like me blaming ALL blacks for the murder of my cousin by just ONE black youth.


_________________
*TRE45ON!!*
Lock Him Up!

(Claiming moral equivalency between one's own
immoral acts and those of another is a null defense.)


sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

28 May 2020, 7:18 pm

Never would have figured target was behind the murder. How much do we figured they paid the cop to do ita. Thank god protesters burned and looted their stores as justice.


_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 45,646
Location: Stendec

28 May 2020, 7:21 pm

sly279 wrote:
Never would have figured Target was behind the murder.  How much do we figured they paid the cop to do it.  Thank god protesters burned and looted their stores as justice.
Sarcasm noted and appreciated.

:wtg:


_________________
*TRE45ON!!*
Lock Him Up!

(Claiming moral equivalency between one's own
immoral acts and those of another is a null defense.)


sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

28 May 2020, 7:22 pm

Fnord wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Can we please stop showing concern for people who break the law and suffer the consequences?
... Blindly defending police brutality is not standing up for justice. It is the opposite.
Blindly defending brutality against police is not standing up for justice, either.

In a civilized society, people don't attack police in Los Angeles in retaliation for a police attack in Minneapolis.

I am not condoning violence (or murder) on either side, but to paint ALL police as solely responsible for the actions of even ONE police officer would be like me blaming ALL blacks for the murder of my cousin by just ONE black youth.


Don’t you know all cops and businesses are responsible? Nah it’s just a reason for people to commit theft and violence without punishment. It’s just humanity showing it’s real self.
I’d wager most the rioters could care one s**t about the guy murdered or the cop getting justice for it.
While I don’t like the militarization of police I also understand human nature and that without the police the riots happening now would be 100% worse and happen every single day. It’s the police and government that keep us civilized


_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 45,646
Location: Stendec

28 May 2020, 7:25 pm

sly279 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Can we please stop showing concern for people who break the law and suffer the consequences?
... Blindly defending police brutality is not standing up for justice. It is the opposite.
Blindly defending brutality against police is not standing up for justice, either.  In a civilized society, people don't attack police in Los Angeles in retaliation for a police attack in Minneapolis.  I am not condoning violence (or murder) on either side, but to paint ALL police as solely responsible for the actions of even ONE police officer would be like me blaming ALL blacks for the murder of my cousin by just ONE black youth.
Don’t you know all cops and businesses are responsible?  Nah, it's just a reason for people to commit theft and violence without punishment. It’s just humanity showing it’s real self.  I’d wager most the rioters couldn't care one s**t about the guy murdered or the cop getting justice for it.  While I don’t like the militarization of police I also understand human nature and that without the police the riots happening now would be 100% worse and happen every single day.  It’s the police and government that keep us civilized
It certainly is NOT the rioters and looters who strike out at anyone and anything that gets in their way.


_________________
*TRE45ON!!*
Lock Him Up!

(Claiming moral equivalency between one's own
immoral acts and those of another is a null defense.)


Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,297
Location: Brisbane, Australia

28 May 2020, 7:35 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Image


And the police/government are conditioned to be afraid of black people for simply existing, that they are more dangerous and more of a threat for the exact same things. Do we need to look at that video where a black man mentions he has a gun in the car, and then the officer shoots him after reaching for the papers that the officer told him to get?

Sure the government being held to accountability is important for a just society, but America has clear signs where one part of the population are far more often seen as more dangerous in their very nature, so they get treated more brutally by the police, while the other can do ridiculous things like carry around military grade weapons and treat it like they are for freedom.

The reason alone that you are seeing these differences in protests is that one side can feel confident enough that they can brandish weapons to intimidate law makers to allow them to go to the hairdressers again, while the other has been under the heel of police brutality and frustration from not being listened to, that they can expect to be met by tear gas and rubber bullets. Do you think that the police would start using rubber bullets and tear gas into the crowds of white people with guns? How do you think it would be framed if the black people being gassed and shot also had guns?


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


roronoa79
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 608
Location: Indiana

28 May 2020, 8:23 pm

Quote:
If black people had behaved the same way with these guns, wearing camouflage and threatening legislators and the governor, they would have been shot dead by law enforcement.


There has been a conspicuous lack of attention given to this quote. This is a matter of race. I find it impossible to believe fox news would call these protesters non-violent if they were not white conservatives.
Police do not police whites the same way they police non-whites. It does not matter what state, county, or municipality it is. The "good cops" one can supposedly find everywhere have not prevented this. They are either ignorant of, complicit in, or actively contributing to this systemic racial violence. Conservatives talk about how this is just the cause of a few "bad apples" seem to forget what bad apples do to the bunch.


_________________
Diagnoses: AS, Depression, General & Social Anxiety
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson

Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν
Those in positions of power do what their power permits, while the weak have no choice but to accept it.

- Thucydides


sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

28 May 2020, 10:15 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Image


And the police/government are conditioned to be afraid of black people for simply existing, that they are more dangerous and more of a threat for the exact same things. Do we need to look at that video where a black man mentions he has a gun in the car, and then the officer shoots him after reaching for the papers that the officer told him to get?

Sure the government being held to accountability is important for a just society, but America has clear signs where one part of the population are far more often seen as more dangerous in their very nature, so they get treated more brutally by the police, while the other can do ridiculous things like carry around military grade weapons and treat it like they are for freedom.

The reason alone that you are seeing these differences in protests is that one side can feel confident enough that they can brandish weapons to intimidate law makers to allow them to go to the hairdressers again, while the other has been under the heel of police brutality and frustration from not being listened to, that they can expect to be met by tear gas and rubber bullets. Do you think that the police would start using rubber bullets and tear gas into the crowds of white people with guns? How do you think it would be framed if the black people being gassed and shot also had guns?


Plenty of black people at conservative protests. There’s who organization of black gun owners. Black panthers do protests armed and wearing camo or tactical gear and they don’t get attacked by the police.
Antifa is mostLy white and they riot and so get stopped by the police.
It’s not the color of ones skin but how they carry themselves.

The gun owners aren’t trying to intimidate anyone. You have a really black white or liberal only way of seeing things.
If the white people with guns were burning buildings and cars yiud bet your ass they’d probably just straight up open fire on them. But for so,e strange reasons they don’t burn buildings or cars or do anything violent.
Violence gets violence back. Don’t want to be gassed or shot don’t loot, burn buildings, burn cars, or attack peopLe.
If I was mayor in these cities I call the national guard. Se how fast the riots run when humvees armed with 50cal machine guns roll down the street. Violence is the only thing rioters understand.
Now if they want to gather with a permit peacefully then no problem.
Some rioters attacks me I’m going do everything in my power to survive


_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die


sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

28 May 2020, 10:18 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
Quote:
If black people had behaved the same way with these guns, wearing camouflage and threatening legislators and the governor, they would have been shot dead by law enforcement.


There has been a conspicuous lack of attention given to this quote. This is a matter of race. I find it impossible to believe fox news would call these protesters non-violent if they were not white conservatives.
Police do not police whites the same way they police non-whites. It does not matter what state, county, or municipality it is. The "good cops" one can supposedly find everywhere have not prevented this. They are either ignorant of, complicit in, or actively contributing to this systemic racial violence. Conservatives talk about how this is just the cause of a few "bad apples" seem to forget what bad apples do to the bunch.

What act of violence did they do? Who’d they attack? What buildings did they burn down?
Do you understand what violence means?
behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
Standing around holding signs isn’t violence. Carrying a weapon isn’t violence.
You dislike the gun owners simple cause they aren’t fro, your party, if someone carrying a gun scares you you should go get counseling.


_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 98,651
Location: the island of defective toy santas

28 May 2020, 10:35 pm

threats of violence=violence.



QFT
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Jun 2019
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,788

28 May 2020, 10:38 pm

Actually tear gas and rubber bullets strike me as very mild. Some other riots were handled by rioters getting arretsted. But here nobody got arrested -- even though vandalism is something one "can" be arrested for.

Back when I was 17, I decided to throw a stone to the roof of the building to see if I could make it that high. I didn't, and it flew through the window instead. I was really close to being arrested although, luckily, they didn't take me to jail, but they could have (I was in police car).

Now, I am White. And see how I had it much worse than these black people. Despite the fact that I broke the window by accident and they did it on purpose.



Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,297
Location: Brisbane, Australia

28 May 2020, 10:43 pm

sly279 wrote:
The gun owners aren’t trying to intimidate anyone.


Then why did they have the weapons in the first place? Because it matched their belts? Or because it was sending a message to not mess with them.

sly279 wrote:
You have a really black white or liberal only way of seeing things.


Believe me I am not a liberal. Liberalism is the belief system that believes everyone, but especially those in power including businesses, can do whatever their want even if it infringes on equal opportunity and fair treatment of those with less power. So the white people that make up the majority of police force and politicians can storm a statehouse without fear of violence or not being listened to, while people protesting against violence against black people won't have any of their concerns listened to and will be perceived as dangerous.
Colin Kaepernick could not take a knee in protest without being seen as a traitor to the country, while nameless Republican can show up in military gear, masked even, and be treated like a freedom fighter.

Quote:
Black panthers do protests armed and wearing camo or tactical gear and they don’t get attacked by the police.


You can look at history and see cases like certain laws were only put into place when the Black Panthers started protesting with guns, because they got perceived as thugs and the politicians got scared when they barely cared beforehand.

Black people are just as affected by this lockdown, but why are there so few of them joining in these anti-lockdown riots? Especially armed.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 42,326
Location: Houston, Texas

28 May 2020, 11:00 pm

Why would this happen in Minneapolis? I thought these things only happened in red states.


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!


sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

28 May 2020, 11:27 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
sly279 wrote:
The gun owners aren’t trying to intimidate anyone.


Then why did they have the weapons in the first place? Because it matched their belts? Or because it was sending a message to not mess with them.

sly279 wrote:
You have a really black white or liberal only way of seeing things.


Believe me I am not a liberal. Liberalism is the belief system that believes everyone, but especially those in power including businesses, can do whatever their want even if it infringes on equal opportunity and fair treatment of those with less power. So the white people that make up the majority of police force and politicians can storm a statehouse without fear of violence or not being listened to, while people protesting against violence against black people won't have any of their concerns listened to and will be perceived as dangerous.
Colin Kaepernick could not take a knee in protest without being seen as a traitor to the country, while nameless Republican can show up in military gear, masked even, and be treated like a freedom fighter.

Quote:
Black panthers do protests armed and wearing camo or tactical gear and they don’t get attacked by the police.


You can look at history and see cases like certain laws were only put into place when the Black Panthers started protesting with guns, because they got perceived as thugs and the politicians got scared when they barely cared beforehand.

Black people are just as affected by this lockdown, but why are there so few of them joining in these anti-lockdown riots? Especially armed.

Because they protesting against gun control and for the right to own said firearms.
Why do women march wear pink vagina hates?
Why to pro weed people smoke weed at protests?

But you’ve shown to be super biased and close minded so I won’t wast my time with chatting with you anymore.


_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die