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auntblabby
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17 Jun 2020, 8:24 am

the justice system here in amuuurica, just like just about everything else, is one big racket that excludes the upper class for the most part. IOW it is a big SHAM.



Magna
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17 Jun 2020, 9:05 am

auntblabby wrote:
the justice system here in amuuurica, just like just about everything else, is one big racket that excludes the upper class for the most part. IOW it is a big SHAM.


Agreed.



ironpony
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17 Jun 2020, 12:29 pm

Well if the system in America sucks, then why don't the protesters, protest that the system be changed then, rather than the defunding of the department? Wouldn't the system changing be more important to protest about?

For example, it was pointed out how people do not like how the DA cuts deals with criminals, so they get lighter sentences. Well, how about protest that the US government changes the law, so that everyone charged with a crime goes to trial then, no deals?



Last edited by ironpony on 17 Jun 2020, 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

auntblabby
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17 Jun 2020, 12:31 pm

cut their pay and send them home, is the demand of people who for centuries have not been listened to or just got the back of the hand for their trouble.



techstepgenr8tion
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17 Jun 2020, 1:35 pm

I'm not going to recommend watching the whole thing, this is a typical Rogan-length interview, but in the 10:00 to 20:00 min range Jocko's making some really good points about the problems with the police force in the US. The biggest is just how badly under-trained they are. I know people who've seen local police at the range and it's horrifying, ie. in a Blazing Saddles kind of way, and I know from experience - this is even worse - their hand to hand combat training in most places is really lacking. You need to both pay your police well (ie. attract people who you'd want in the role) and Jocko was recommending martial arts, BJJ, lock, chi na, and training for various physical altercation scenarios at least 1/5 of their hours any given week (ie. 8 hours).

For those who have difficulty tracking why you'd want to train the police more in terms of hand-to-hand self-defense it's this - the more competent they are and the more tools that they have at their disposal for subduing a combative individual the better odd of them succeeding without doing damage to the person's health. In fact, if they have almost no combat training they're more likely to go for a gun quicker and, if they're shooting like blazing saddles they've got a really good chance of shooting an innocent bystander instead of the perp!

The other thing that's come up is just how many formal complaints Derek Chauvin had against him and he was being protected by the unions. That's another thing that needs to stop if it's true, too little too late in this case but after this example unforgivable going forward.


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17 Jun 2020, 1:37 pm

auntblabby wrote:
cut their pay...
... and watch bribery and graft become more popular among those police officers whose pay was cut.



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17 Jun 2020, 2:10 pm

Yeah that's a possibility too, the bribery that is.

I was thinking of what was said before on here, that the reason why a lot of black criminals are in jail is because they were scared into taking a plea bargain.

If the protesters demanded a change in law, that all cases must go to to trial, and to abolish plea bargaining, would this be better then?



Dylanperr
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17 Jun 2020, 4:11 pm

No.



ironpony
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17 Jun 2020, 5:17 pm

Oh okay, well then if that wouldn't be better, than why do some people think it's bad when defendant's charged with a crime, are scared by the police into plea bargaining then?



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17 Jun 2020, 5:59 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I'm not going to recommend watching the whole thing, this is a typical Rogan-length interview, but in the 10:00 to 20:00 min range Jocko's making some really good points about the problems with the police force in the US. The biggest is just how badly under-trained they are. I know people who've seen local police at the range and it's horrifying, ie. in a Blazing Saddles kind of way, and I know from experience - this is even worse - their hand to hand combat training in most places is really lacking. You need to both pay your police well (ie. attract people who you'd want in the role) and Jocko was recommending martial arts, BJJ, lock, chi na, and training for various physical altercation scenarios at least 1/5 of their hours any given week (ie. 8 hours).

For those who have difficulty tracking why you'd want to train the police more in terms of hand-to-hand self-defense it's this - the more competent they are and the more tools that they have at their disposal for subduing a combative individual the better odd of them succeeding without doing damage to the person's health. In fact, if they have almost no combat training they're more likely to go for a gun quicker and, if they're shooting like blazing saddles they've got a really good chance of shooting an innocent bystander instead of the perp!

The other thing that's come up is just how many formal complaints Derek Chauvin had against him and he was being protected by the unions. That's another thing that needs to stop if it's true, too little too late in this case but after this example unforgivable going forward.



Interesting. It didn't occur to me that with the Chauvin monster that the police union was protecting him. That makes sense though. The original intent of a union was a good thing for workers (safety, fair wages, pension) but it's just not the case that unions are completely a good thing now. I was in a government union for about five years. I saw firsthand on numerous occasions where the union not only stuck up for terrible employees, they did everything to drag out the inevitable (employee being fired). In the actual situations I witnessed, the employees were nothing other than overtly and brazenly lazy to the point of even refusing to do the work in their job descriptions, the same work that everyone else in the unit was doing. In the private sector they would have been fired in short order. Did the union try to force the department to keep terrible employees? On numerous occasions. Interesting that the police union in Minneapolis did even worse in protecting a police officer with numerous complaints previously.

If I was a member of George Floyd's family I'd be suing not only the city of Minneapolis, but I'd also be suing the police union since both have culpability in my opinion.



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19 Jun 2020, 12:29 pm

Unions often protect people under a lot of BS circumstances. What if instead of defunding the police, the protesters just demand that police work, be a non-union job. Would that be better, compared to defunding?



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19 Jun 2020, 3:05 pm

ironpony wrote:
Unions often protect people under a lot of BS circumstances. What if instead of defunding the police, the protesters just demand that police work, be a non-union job. Would that be better, compared to defunding?

The democrat party wants all jobs to be union, so that would go against their own agenda.


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ironpony
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19 Jun 2020, 3:57 pm

So the democrats are pro-union, yet they hate the unions for protecting employees when those employees commit crimes... What about the Republicans? Would they be more for tearing down the police unions?



techstepgenr8tion
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19 Jun 2020, 4:04 pm

More PowerfulJRE with Bret Weinstein on current events.


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19 Jun 2020, 5:04 pm

I support unions - but not where there is a potential risk to people (especially vulnerable) people. Carpenters' unions? Yes. Postal worker unions? Yes. Police unions? No. Nursing unions? No.

I used to work in an industry that supposedly takes care of very, very vulnerable people. When I started there I found out that a month before one of the vulnerable residents who was really sick had been ignored by his staff because they considered him too much a pain to deal with. The resident then not only died, but laid dead in his own bed for days before anyone checked on him. So, lots of firings for that? Nope. The union got every involved worker just a slap on the wrist, and they wrote up all the documentation to cover for the entire event. Crazy.


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sly279
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19 Jun 2020, 7:03 pm

RadioDog wrote:
I support unions - but not where there is a potential risk to people (especially vulnerable) people. Carpenters' unions? Yes. Postal worker unions? Yes. Police unions? No. Nursing unions? No.

I used to work in an industry that supposedly takes care of very, very vulnerable people. When I started there I found out that a month before one of the vulnerable residents who was really sick had been ignored by his staff because they considered him too much a pain to deal with. The resident then not only died, but laid dead in his own bed for days before anyone checked on him. So, lots of firings for that? Nope. The union got every involved worker just a slap on the wrist, and they wrote up all the documentation to cover for the entire event. Crazy.

Why ? Shouldn’t police be protected from abuse while postal people should?
Guess you’ll fine with cops being Made to work 80 weeks for half the pay.
You either have to be for all unions or no unions to do otherwise is hypocrisy.

What about all the times the unions protected innocent nurses from being falsely fired.


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