Outlawing "hate speech" & seemingly unrelated consequences.
18 Jun 2020, 3:44 pm
magz wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
This is always a vexing question. A school of thought that is increasingly influential says society must stamp out any inclining of hate immediately even at the “microagression” stage lest it fester. The Jews in Germany though the Nazi thing would blow over and look at what happened. Another school of thought says do not make a mountain out of a molehill, don’t give attention seekers attention especially when they are fringe. When in the 1970s Nazis marched through a neighborhood of holocaust survivors they were completely ignored and the demonstration quickly broke up. While I advocate erring on the side of free speech it is hard to know what outlier is best ignored and what outlier is the next big problem. Social media and the dark web makes it difficult to determine what is fringe now never mind the future.
I recently expressed my view in another thread:
A boundary of tolerability of an ideology is: does it dehumanize anyone?
If yes, it's beoynd my tolerance.
If no, I tolerate it, even if I may completely disagree.
Dehumanization of various groups of people is the very foundation of any genocide that ever occured. We can't afford more genocides in our global world.
I don't think silencing conflicts with those "microagression" rhetorics would give us a better future. Silenced conflict is still a conflict. We need to learn to handle conflicts better than that.
Who decides what’s dehumanizing?
I feel dehumanized by western society. I feel seen and treated as sub human. Most people don’t care they make up the majority I make up the minority. I’m not alone.
Should those who dehumanize me be punished by law?
_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die
18 Jun 2020, 3:46 pm
magz wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Why do black people call each other a word, which is considered to be a derogatory term though?
Why saying "I'm such an idiot!" can be cheerful but saying "you're such an idiot!" is offensive?Don’t see jews using the words nazies used on them.
Why can blacks call white people cracker? It’s also a racial slur.
Your autistic and I’m autistic, so can I call you ret*d, since it’s our word?
Why would someone want to claim and use a slur against them as their word.
_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die
18 Jun 2020, 4:59 pm
sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Why do black people call each other a word, which is considered to be a derogatory term though?
Why saying "I'm such an idiot!" can be cheerful but saying "you're such an idiot!" is offensive?Don’t see jews using the words nazies used on them.
Why can blacks call white people cracker? It’s also a racial slur.
Your autistic and I’m autistic, so can I call you ret*d, since it’s our word?
Why would someone want to claim and use a slur against them as their word.
Calling people crackers is wrong and offensive.
I don't know for sure, I would welcome some Black American to tell me if I'm right, but I suspect using the N-word is not neutral among the Black Americans, too, and that it's never used on random people. I suspect it to be the insult-turned-affectionate phenomenon. I called my closest friend "old hag" and she called me that way, too - but outside our tiny circle, the term "old hag" would be an insult it is regularily.
In my neurodiverse family, we use many words connected to mental illness that way. But I don't use them on random neurodiverse people like you, because outside of this inner circle, they wouldn't bear the affectionate, inclusive meaning, they would be just insulting.
I don't really know if the N-word is also this phenomenon. I would welcome insight from someone who does know.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
18 Jun 2020, 6:22 pm
Black people call each other the “N” word sometimes as a term of friendly affection, and they use it amongst themselves to mean “a person” (sometimes that “person” is not black).
Black women sometimes call their male (or masculine female) lovers “my [N-word].” Though men never call their female lovers that, though they do call their male lovers that.
The use of the “N” word is only tolerated when non-black people use it—when they are close to that person.
In print, the word is “n***a,” never “n****r.”
Politically-conscious black folks want to totally get rid of that term, whatever its apparent meaning or spelling.
IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT A NON-BLACK PERSON IS ENTITLED TO CALL A BLACK PERSON THE “N” WORD.
18 Jun 2020, 6:45 pm
sly279 wrote:
Who decides what’s dehumanizing?
I feel dehumanized by western society. I feel seen and treated as sub human. Most people don’t care they make up the majority I make up the minority. I’m not alone.
Should those who dehumanize me be punished by law?
I feel dehumanized by western society. I feel seen and treated as sub human. Most people don’t care they make up the majority I make up the minority. I’m not alone.
Should those who dehumanize me be punished by law?
The answer is obvious Sly. Who runs western society? who is in charge? there's your answer. You spend a lot of time criticising minorities but they don't have any role in your predicament. White women choose not to date you and white men choose not to be your friend or give you a better job.
18 Jun 2020, 6:46 pm
kraftiekortie wrote:
Black people call each other the “N” word sometimes as a term of friendly affection, and they use it amongst themselves to mean “a person” (sometimes that “person” is not black).
Basically they have taken ownership of a word that used to be the sole property of white folks in America.
19 Jun 2020, 12:49 am
magz wrote:
sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Why do black people call each other a word, which is considered to be a derogatory term though?
Why saying "I'm such an idiot!" can be cheerful but saying "you're such an idiot!" is offensive?Don’t see jews using the words nazies used on them.
Why can blacks call white people cracker? It’s also a racial slur.
Your autistic and I’m autistic, so can I call you ret*d, since it’s our word?
Why would someone want to claim and use a slur against them as their word.
Calling people crackers is wrong and offensive.
I don't know for sure, I would welcome some Black American to tell me if I'm right, but I suspect using the N-word is not neutral among the Black Americans, too, and that it's never used on random people. I suspect it to be the insult-turned-affectionate phenomenon. I called my closest friend "old hag" and she called me that way, too - but outside our tiny circle, the term "old hag" would be an insult it is regularily.
In my neurodiverse family, we use many words connected to mental illness that way. But I don't use them on random neurodiverse people like you, because outside of this inner circle, they wouldn't bear the affectionate, inclusive meaning, they would be just insulting.
I don't really know if the N-word is also this phenomenon. I would welcome insight from someone who does know.
Welcome to the minority. Sjw will tell you it’s fine for black people to call white people cracker. Blacks can’t be racist. Only white people can hate someone for their skin color.
I’ll never feel fine with the r word. I don’t see a dsy come img where I’d an aspie would walk up to another aisle and say “what’s up my ret*d” or have songs thst regularly use it.
Either the word is horrible or it’s not. You won’t see jews using nazi slurs. You don’t see Hispanics using racial slurs, or muslims, gays don’t go around “what’s up my fa***t” no we say those words are always bad, no exceptions.
_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die
19 Jun 2020, 12:53 am
magz wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I feel dehumanized by western society. I feel seen and treated as sub human.
Have you talked about it to someone you really trust?
Humans have developed in a way that certain people are deemed sub human and worthless nothing will change that. I’d been considered sub human 100 years ago, thousand years ago, and I’ll be considered sub human 100 years from now.
Things are how people like it and benefits them so they won’t be changing it. People who speak out about it just get demonized on top of being Dehumanized.
Only death will bring freedom for me.
No one cares about me now no one will miss me when I’m gone. Besides the inconvenience of work having to hire a replacement who will be better then me.
_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die
funeralxempire
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Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,504
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19 Jun 2020, 12:59 am
sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Why do black people call each other a word, which is considered to be a derogatory term though?
Why saying "I'm such an idiot!" can be cheerful but saying "you're such an idiot!" is offensive?Don’t see jews using the words nazies used on them.
Why can blacks call white people cracker? It’s also a racial slur.
Your autistic and I’m autistic, so can I call you ret*d, since it’s our word?
Why would someone want to claim and use a slur against them as their word.
Calling people crackers is wrong and offensive.
I don't know for sure, I would welcome some Black American to tell me if I'm right, but I suspect using the N-word is not neutral among the Black Americans, too, and that it's never used on random people. I suspect it to be the insult-turned-affectionate phenomenon. I called my closest friend "old hag" and she called me that way, too - but outside our tiny circle, the term "old hag" would be an insult it is regularily.
In my neurodiverse family, we use many words connected to mental illness that way. But I don't use them on random neurodiverse people like you, because outside of this inner circle, they wouldn't bear the affectionate, inclusive meaning, they would be just insulting.
I don't really know if the N-word is also this phenomenon. I would welcome insight from someone who does know.
Welcome to the minority. Sjw will tell you it’s fine for black people to call white people cracker. Blacks can’t be racist. Only white people can hate someone for their skin color.
I’ll never feel fine with the r word. I don’t see a dsy come img where I’d an aspie would walk up to another aisle and say “what’s up my ret*d” or have songs thst regularly use it.
Either the word is horrible or it’s not. You won’t see jews using nazi slurs. You don’t see Hispanics using racial slurs, or muslims, gays don’t go around “what’s up my fa***t” no we say those words are always bad, no exceptions.
I'm an artist on the spectrum who's perfectly fine using ret*d in songs as a self-reference. I don't generally use it as an insult.
I've had many gay friends who either use the term fa***t as a self-deprecating self-reference or who use it casually in the same vein as other people who use it (to refer to a man who is lacking masculinity with no genuine insinuation about their orientation).
Tyler The Creator comes to mind as an example of a gay artist who uses fa***t to refer to himself as well as using it as a slur as described above.
It's not that non-whites can't hate someone for their background or skin colour, it's that non-whites in white dominated societies rarely have the power to make their racism actually matter. Cracker and white boy aren't analogous to n-bombs. There isn't hundreds of years of those terms being used in conjunction with violence to oppress whites and that's why it's flat-out dishonest to compared the two as though they're equal.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
Bradleigh
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19 Jun 2020, 1:53 am
sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I feel dehumanized by western society. I feel seen and treated as sub human.
Have you talked about it to someone you really trust?
Humans have developed in a way that certain people are deemed sub human and worthless nothing will change that. I’d been considered sub human 100 years ago, thousand years ago, and I’ll be considered sub human 100 years from now.
Things are how people like it and benefits them so they won’t be changing it. People who speak out about it just get demonized on top of being Dehumanized.
Only death will bring freedom for me.
No one cares about me now no one will miss me when I’m gone. Besides the inconvenience of work having to hire a replacement who will be better then me.
Would you mind saying what it is about you inherently that has people historically and into the future seeing you as sub human? I assure you that my political leanings are entirely around protecting people for being discriminated against and seen as sub human.
If Western culture is discriminating against you I would love to talk about it in how I can evolve my understanding and look to improve things.
_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall
19 Jun 2020, 1:57 am
kraftiekortie wrote:
Black people call each other the “N” word sometimes as a term of friendly affection, and they use it amongst themselves to mean “a person” (sometimes that “person” is not black).
Black women sometimes call their male (or masculine female) lovers “my [N-word].” Though men never call their female lovers that, though they do call their male lovers that.
The use of the “N” word is only tolerated when non-black people use it—when they are close to that person.
In print, the word is “n***a,” never “n****r.”
Politically-conscious black folks want to totally get rid of that term, whatever its apparent meaning or spelling.
IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT A NON-BLACK PERSON IS ENTITLED TO CALL A BLACK PERSON THE “N” WORD.
Black women sometimes call their male (or masculine female) lovers “my [N-word].” Though men never call their female lovers that, though they do call their male lovers that.
The use of the “N” word is only tolerated when non-black people use it—when they are close to that person.
In print, the word is “n***a,” never “n****r.”
Politically-conscious black folks want to totally get rid of that term, whatever its apparent meaning or spelling.
IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT A NON-BLACK PERSON IS ENTITLED TO CALL A BLACK PERSON THE “N” WORD.
That sounds like fitting the phenomenon I was describing - a word generally offensive turns affectionate but only within some personal circles. You need to be inside this circle to use it that way. If you're non-black and get accepted inside such a circle, congratulations!
You don't go and call random people "old hag", you also don't go and call random people "my love".
I remember a drunk talk of a Roma man who at some moment shouted: "You can call me "Gypsy" but you [another person] can't!"
Both the persons "allowed" and "denied" to call him "Gypsy" weren't Roma themselves - they just had different leanings towards the Roma minority and the man himself, so the word "Gypsy" bore different meanings to him.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
19 Jun 2020, 4:50 am
sly279 wrote:
Either the word is horrible or it’s not.
So what about when history teachers quote the use of the n-word in a historical text? What about when actors play racist characters? What if a witness in court has to repeat what they heard someone say?
Context matters.
Put it another way. Imagine notorious gun-grabber Beto O’Rourke was running for President against a Republican you have never heard of. The Republican says “I respect the second amendment”. Then Beto says “I respect the second amendment”. Do you think those sentences mean the same thing, or is the meaning of Beto’s statement changed by his past promises to “take away your AR-15, your AK-47”?
19 Jun 2020, 10:35 am
Well as far as the 1st Amendment on free speech goes, do Americans even believe in the first Amendment on free speech anymore?
It seems that people in the US, are being fired all the time for expressing their beliefs publicly, and that therefore, a lot of Americans do not believe in free speech and there will be consequences for it, if they are in a position of power to make consequences. So I thought maybe therefore, a lot of Americans do not believe in free speech anymore.
funeralxempire
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19 Jun 2020, 12:17 pm
ironpony wrote:
Well as far as the 1st Amendment on free speech goes, do Americans even believe in the first Amendment on free speech anymore?
It seems that people in the US, are being fired all the time for expressing their beliefs publicly, and that therefore, a lot of Americans do not believe in free speech and there will be consequences for it, if they are in a position of power to make consequences. So I thought maybe therefore, a lot of Americans do not believe in free speech anymore.
It seems that people in the US, are being fired all the time for expressing their beliefs publicly, and that therefore, a lot of Americans do not believe in free speech and there will be consequences for it, if they are in a position of power to make consequences. So I thought maybe therefore, a lot of Americans do not believe in free speech anymore.
The US First Amendment protects one against the state punishing them for the ideas they express. It doesn't mean people have to associate with you after you say horrific things. Freedom of speech doesn't negate freedom of association.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
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