Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an Auto-Antonym

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funeralxempire
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30 Jun 2020, 11:19 am

jimmy m wrote:
I remember years ago visiting a gun shop because I was thinking about buying a gun for self protection. But because I am an Aspie with little street smarts, I visited a gun shop that was in a very poor area of a major city. I was asking technical questions about various guns, when a young black teenager walked in with some of his friends. They to were looking for guns. They selected a large gun, one that was very flashy. Maybe I wouldn't even call it a gun but a small cannon. I thought to myself, how useless that gun would be, you could hardly even lift it up to shoot and once you fired it would probably knock you onto your rear end. But that was what that teenager bought. It was a status symbol. Don't mess with me because I have the biggest gun on the block.


Maybe he's a chickenshit who's really hoping having a scary looking gun might make him not need to use it. It might be both a status symbol and a bluff. He knows his most likely opp is another kid just like him; who wants to know they made their aunt's sister weep so hard she thought she was having a heart attack? Just because you will doesn't mean you want to.


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30 Jun 2020, 3:20 pm

Magna wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Magna wrote:
magz wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
This county is full of guns.We haven’t had a homicide in a few years.The last time we did it was meth related.
We had an armed standoff a few months back but the guy had a crossbow.

Rural areas rarely have the dynamics of urban areas even if those urban areas are fairly homogeneous.

When my friend got a scholarship on Svalbard, she had to attend shooting course and she was lent a gun she was required to carry outside human-inhabited areas. The reason: polar bears.
Also, as food is expensive but wildlife abundant and hunting seals is free, students routinely survive on seal meat there.

These are not the bullets that kill random children in bad neighboorhoods.


That's been one of the problems with calls for "gun control" in the U.S. blanket sweeping restrictions that would apply the same for every law abiding citizen (remember criminals don't follow laws). So a law that would prevent someone in the city or suburb from owning a semi-automatic hunting rifle would also prevent someone living in remote rural areas from owning the same rifle they use for protection. Someone living in the remote areas of Alaska, for example, would also be bound by the same blanket laws and perhaps only be allowed to have a single shot bolt action rifle to defend themselves from charging bears.

A single shot??Better hope you kill it with the first shot, you won’t get a second chance.


Exactly.

More likely to piss it off then kill it in one shot, better off just carrying a small one shot pistol to prevent the pain and suffering before you die being mauled.

I wouldn’t say people in urban areas need guns less, they probably need guns more.


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sly279
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30 Jun 2020, 3:22 pm

magz wrote:
Magna wrote:
magz wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
This county is full of guns.We haven’t had a homicide in a few years.The last time we did it was meth related.
We had an armed standoff a few months back but the guy had a crossbow.

Rural areas rarely have the dynamics of urban areas even if those urban areas are fairly homogeneous.

When my friend got a scholarship on Svalbard, she had to attend shooting course and she was lent a gun she was required to carry outside human-inhabited areas. The reason: polar bears.
Also, as food is expensive but wildlife abundant and hunting seals is free, students routinely survive on seal meat there.

These are not the bullets that kill random children in bad neighboorhoods.
That's been one of the problems with calls for "gun control" in the U.S. blanket sweeping restrictions that would apply the same for every law abiding citizen (remember criminals don't follow laws). So a law that would prevent someone in the city or suburb from owning a semi-automatic hunting rifle would also prevent someone living in remote rural areas from owning the same rifle they use for protection. Someone living in the remote areas of Alaska, for example, would also be bound by the same blanket laws and perhaps only be allowed to have a single shot bolt action rifle to defend themselves from charging bears.

I think the all-or-nothing blanket policies are generally a problem here.
Why are law-abiding US citizens unwilling to register their guns? Registration wouldn't affect effectiveness against bears but American gun owners seem to be afraid that registered weapon is too likely to be taken away from them with another blanket policy.

What good would register do, unless you plan to take guns later. Which the anti gun people always do. Not a lot of murders and criminals leave their guns behind, cause well that’d be stupid, and guns can be reloaded and reused. There’s only one reason to make a list of gun owners.


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sly279
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30 Jun 2020, 3:26 pm

magz wrote:
Magna wrote:
magz wrote:
Magna wrote:
magz wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
This county is full of guns.We haven’t had a homicide in a few years.The last time we did it was meth related.
We had an armed standoff a few months back but the guy had a crossbow.

Rural areas rarely have the dynamics of urban areas even if those urban areas are fairly homogeneous.

When my friend got a scholarship on Svalbard, she had to attend shooting course and she was lent a gun she was required to carry outside human-inhabited areas. The reason: polar bears.
Also, as food is expensive but wildlife abundant and hunting seals is free, students routinely survive on seal meat there.

These are not the bullets that kill random children in bad neighboorhoods.
That's been one of the problems with calls for "gun control" in the U.S. blanket sweeping restrictions that would apply the same for every law abiding citizen (remember criminals don't follow laws). So a law that would prevent someone in the city or suburb from owning a semi-automatic hunting rifle would also prevent someone living in remote rural areas from owning the same rifle they use for protection. Someone living in the remote areas of Alaska, for example, would also be bound by the same blanket laws and perhaps only be allowed to have a single shot bolt action rifle to defend themselves from charging bears.
I think the all-or-nothing blanket policies are generally a problem here. Why are law-abiding US citizens unwilling to register their guns? Registration wouldn't affect effectiveness against bears but American gun owners seem to be afraid that registered weapon is too likely to be taken away from them with another blanket policy.
I think your statement I've bolded above answers your question.

I expect it to be like that and I can understand these fears but on the other hand, with 392,273,257 unregistered but sort of legal firearms in the US, illegal firearms owned by criminals hide like a drop in a sea.

But stolen registered firearms in criminals hands would be ok?
Or do you think criminals will Register their guns?
In fact the courts have ruled criminals don’t have to obey gun laws as to do so would self incriminate them. It ruled so when a criminal with a unregistered class 3 gun was taken to court.


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sly279
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30 Jun 2020, 3:29 pm

magz wrote:
Magna wrote:
^ What is meant by "sort of legal"?

Sly tried to explain it to me... you can legally purchase firearms and states do some creative legal tricks to bypass federal requirement to register them.
So, the guns have been legally obtained but their status is sort of questionable.

Um what? That’s not what I said. There isn’t any federal registration, in fact it’s against the law for government to make one. Some states do creative legal tricks to bypass that and make illegal registry’s.


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sly279
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30 Jun 2020, 3:40 pm

jimmy m wrote:
Magna wrote:
That's been one of the problems with calls for "gun control" in the U.S. blanket sweeping restrictions that would apply the same for every law abiding citizen (remember criminals don't follow laws). So a law that would prevent someone in the city or suburb from owning a semi-automatic hunting rifle would also prevent someone living in remote rural areas from owning the same rifle they use for protection. Someone living in the remote areas of Alaska, for example, would also be bound by the same blanket laws and perhaps only be allowed to have a single shot bolt action rifle to defend themselves from charging bears.


Precisely!
IMHO, the main objective of gun control should be removing guns from criminals.
Earlier in this thread Wolfram87 brought up an interesting point.

Wolfram87 wrote:
In Europe, there's no market for low-end budget guns. Because of fairly strict gun control for civilians in most of Europe, the quality-to-price lower-end cutoff starts somewhere around a Glock or a low-end Tanfoglio (who make guns for the Israeli military). No one jumps through the hoops required to buy a gun just to buy a Hi-point. Whereas in the US there are oodles of tiny, budget-oriented manufacturers churning out guns catering to people who feel they should have a gun, but also that the object containing a small explosion in their hand should be as cheaply made as possible. Widespread low-end manufacture, with companies starting and going out of business constantly, and people buying guns as an afterthought because America, create the perfect environment for guns getting lost/stolen/found/trafficked or any other way of getting into the wrong hands easily enough.

Meanwhile, in Europe, we are still dealing with the decaying husk of a world superpower in the form of the Soviet Union. Say what you like about the USSR, but they knew how to make guns and to make them in staggering numbers. Ever wonder how Somalia has so many guns? The Soviets turned up and used the entire country as a weapons stockpile. All across Europe and Asia, stockpiles are still turning up, and they're not always found by the most honest of actors. That's the source of 95%+ of Europes illegal gun problems. But somehow, whenever the issue is raised around here, it always results in changes and increased restrictions for legal gun owners, because some joker got a hold of an old Makarov pistol and shot some other joker. But it's much easier to just dump on the most law-abiding group of people (legal gun-owners) and be seen as doing something about the issue instead of dealing with the smuggled guns and actually do something about the issue.


So maybe the solution for the U.S. is to ban cheap guns. Don't ban all guns, just the low end models. That would help to get them out of the hands of gangs and out of the hands of criminals.

I remember years ago visiting a gun shop because I was thinking about buying a gun for self protection. But because I am an Aspie with little street smarts, I visited a gun shop that was in a very poor area of a major city. I was asking technical questions about various guns, when a young black teenager walked in with some of his friends. They to were looking for guns. They selected a large gun, one that was very flashy. Maybe I wouldn't even call it a gun but a small cannon. I thought to myself, how useless that gun would be, you could hardly even lift it up to shoot and once you fired it would probably knock you onto your rear end. But that was what that teenager bought. It was a status symbol. Don't mess with me because I have the biggest gun on the block.

A gun that cost me $1500 will sell to criminal for $300. Why? Well the criminal selling it didn’t pay anything so that’s $300 pure profit. A 1500 gun is same as a $500 gun tire criminal. It doesn’t matter. They don’t care if it’s a sig or a Glock, both shoot.

But that mom working two jobs barely scraping by in a bad area , who’s ex is stalking her and all she can afford is a $200 hi point , could be life or death for her. Gun laws always target the poor who need self defense the most.
Let’s require insurance. Make the, pay $250 per gun they own. Rifle people: $250 thsts pocket change my machine gun cost me $35,000. Poor people: I can’t afford that, how will I defend myself and my family.
Same goes for making people pay a licensing fee of $100 each gun, or doing a 50%tqx on guns. All these laws target poor people only. Middle class and up won’t be effected.

Anti gun movement overal is elitist. Anti gun started so blacks couldn’t own guns, now they don’t want any poor people to own guns. Only the elites should own guns.

They already banned cheap guns, $150 and below. Many people who need a gun can’t get one now. This one guy i watch gives away free guns to people who need it but can’t afford it every month. I’m fortunate but not as fortunate as others. I can’t afford expensive insurance, fees and taxes.
But that’s the plan.

I imagine they bought a shotgun. While big and powerful they won’t knock you on your butt.


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sly279
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30 Jun 2020, 3:42 pm

I’ve got idea, we won’t ban abortion just make it cost $10,000 per abortion. Problem solved. The people who most want or need one won’t be able to afford it. The rich can afford it but probably won’t need or use it. So abortion is banned without being banned.

This is the anti gun strategy


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funeralxempire
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30 Jun 2020, 3:49 pm

sly279 wrote:
What good would register do, unless you plan to take guns later. Which the anti gun people always do. Not a lot of murders and criminals leave their guns behind, cause well that’d be stupid, and guns can be reloaded and reused. There’s only one reason to make a list of gun owners.


You always treat anyone who supports more gun control than yourself as though they're inherently 'anti-gun'. As far as folks who support gun control some support different approaches than others. Personally I there's restrictions here I view as excessive even though I wouldn't go guano like what the US gun lobby would implement there. There's restrictions I would favour in the US, but the end result wouldn't look like Australia or the UK or even Canada.

There's plenty of American gun owners who disagree with the gun lobby, the NRA and similar groups. Are they all 'anti-gun'?

And actually, in the context of organized crime yes a lot of shooters do get rid of weapons after they've been used, if it's a rifled barrelled weapon. Ideally it would be used in such a way that the casings are recovered, since firing pins also leave identifiable markings; the barrel is destroyed with a wirebrush and disposed of to reduce the available forensics information.

A registry helps with tracing weapons to see what portion are being diverted from the legal market, whether through straw buyers or through theft. It helps with identifying if the guns used for crime in your area are being purchased locally or not. Cops like them because they help them with knowing which homes have guns, that's not a strong motivator for me, but that argument exists. There is certainly the possibility that they could be used to help with confiscation, but just like how it's an argument against control, 3D printing and small scale manufacture would also eliminate that possibility. In fact, that might change the whole argument towards what Chris Rock suggested, bullet control.

In theory mandating smart gun tech is within what is constitutionally allowed and could force manufacturers to only sell compatible ammunition, you can 3d print whatever but if stocks of traditional ammo for your homemade gun don't exist it's not very useful. I know one can handload but that would certainly force one to be a dedicated hobbyist to participate significantly, so suddenly cheap semi-auto guns that get treated as disposable by organized crime today would be largely a hobbyist interest with a far more limited supply of ammo and thus a lot less usage in that context (even if the guns themselves are just printed as needed).

Of course, the dangerous thing would be if anyone can build an American-180 at home, because that thing is just about the ideal blicky for spraying out the side of a car at relatively close range. High-rate of fire = lots of shots in a very short exposure window = somebody's getting hit. 22LR is dirt cheap too. A high RoF is ideal for aircraft cannons too, and for the same reason. Guns similar to that (.22LR, full-auto) probably represent something we can agree shouldn't be broadly available to the public.


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magz
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30 Jun 2020, 4:11 pm

sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
I expect it to be like that and I can understand these fears but on the other hand, with 392,273,257 unregistered but sort of legal firearms in the US, illegal firearms owned by criminals hide like a drop in a sea.

But stolen registered firearms in criminals hands would be ok?
Or do you think criminals will Register their guns?
In fact the courts have ruled criminals don’t have to obey gun laws as to do so would self incriminate them. It ruled so when a criminal with a unregistered class 3 gun was taken to court.

What I had in mind: if legal guns are registered, you can quickly decide weather a given gun is legal or not, leave the former, confiscate the latter - with the aim of decreasing the number of guns in circulation but not at the expense of law-abiding citizens.
You should always report stolen guns, just like a stolen ID.


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30 Jun 2020, 4:15 pm

sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
Magna wrote:
^ What is meant by "sort of legal"?

Sly tried to explain it to me... you can legally purchase firearms and states do some creative legal tricks to bypass federal requirement to register them.
So, the guns have been legally obtained but their status is sort of questionable.

Um what? That’s not what I said. There isn’t any federal registration, in fact it’s against the law for government to make one. Some states do creative legal tricks to bypass that and make illegal registry’s.

Okay, I got you wrong. The vast majority of legal guns in the US is lawfully unregistered. Am I right now?


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30 Jun 2020, 7:45 pm

All this talk about whether some bad people could still get a hold of guns, we are missing the forest through the trees. Looking at these cases innocent people who were killed by police, could we not come to a conclusion that more lives would be safer if there in general were less guns in the USA? A gun in a house hold increases the likelihood of death, there is no evidence that having a gun more accessible actually saves lives.

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/1/18000520/gun-risk-death

https://injury.research.chop.edu/violence-prevention-initiative/types-violence-involving-youth/gun-violence/gun-violence-facts-and#.XvvYPkBuKP8

Regardless of any other fact, the more guns there are the more likely people are to die from guns, so the more inconvenient things are the safer people will be, Knives can't be used for a drive-by. There is no evidence that own a gun will act as more of deterrent of people attacking you or your home as it increases the likelihood that someone else using a gun to kill you. Guns don't save lives, they end them. In the majority of these cases of innocent people killed by guns, gun control could have only been more likely for them not to die. All of their lives should have been worth more than whatever people get from guns to be as easy to get as they are.


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30 Jun 2020, 8:43 pm

It’s not a good idea if only the cops and military have guns.

“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.”
Adolph Hitler


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Magna
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30 Jun 2020, 8:47 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
Guns don't save lives, they end them.
Wut?



Bradleigh
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30 Jun 2020, 9:06 pm

Misslizard wrote:
It’s not a good idea if only the cops and military have guns.

“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.”
Adolph Hitler


Hitler specifically did not want minorities like Jews to have weapons, the police should be there to protect the people not act as conquerors to have civilians treated like subjects.

Your laws and regulations against people like your military turning their guns on the people should be what keeps them in check, not the threat that they would be shot back at. It would be nice if they had less tools of death too.


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30 Jun 2020, 9:12 pm

Magna wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Guns don't save lives, they end them.
Wut?


Did I stutter, or are there actually guns that can fix a problem without killing something?

I suppose that there is the whole protect yourself from bears argument, but very few people who have guns are at all at risk from a bear.


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30 Jun 2020, 9:20 pm

^ You do know that guns have been and can be a deterrent against violence don't you? That's right; a deterrent against violence. Violent crimes and murders are sometimes deterred by guns without a person firing the weapon? Have you never of that before?

I'm not sure if you stuttered. Stuttering is a speech disorder.