Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an Auto-Antonym

Page 13 of 19 [ 299 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 ... 19  Next

Magna
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,932

30 Jun 2020, 9:44 am

magz wrote:
Magna wrote:
magz wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
This county is full of guns.We haven’t had a homicide in a few years.The last time we did it was meth related.
We had an armed standoff a few months back but the guy had a crossbow.

Rural areas rarely have the dynamics of urban areas even if those urban areas are fairly homogeneous.

When my friend got a scholarship on Svalbard, she had to attend shooting course and she was lent a gun she was required to carry outside human-inhabited areas. The reason: polar bears.
Also, as food is expensive but wildlife abundant and hunting seals is free, students routinely survive on seal meat there.

These are not the bullets that kill random children in bad neighboorhoods.
That's been one of the problems with calls for "gun control" in the U.S. blanket sweeping restrictions that would apply the same for every law abiding citizen (remember criminals don't follow laws). So a law that would prevent someone in the city or suburb from owning a semi-automatic hunting rifle would also prevent someone living in remote rural areas from owning the same rifle they use for protection. Someone living in the remote areas of Alaska, for example, would also be bound by the same blanket laws and perhaps only be allowed to have a single shot bolt action rifle to defend themselves from charging bears.


I think the all-or-nothing blanket policies are generally a problem here. Why are law-abiding US citizens unwilling to register their guns? Registration wouldn't affect effectiveness against bears but American gun owners seem to be afraid that registered weapon is too likely to be taken away from them with another blanket policy.


I think your statement I've bolded above answers your question.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,750
Location: Stendec

30 Jun 2020, 9:50 am

magz wrote:
Why are law-abiding US citizens unwilling to register their guns? ... American gun owners seem to be afraid that registered weapon is too likely to be taken away from them with another blanket policy.
You have answered your own question.  Once the government records show that you have guns in your home, that information can be used against you whether for something as simple as an ordinary traffic stop ("Out of the car!  Hands on the hood!  Feet back and legs spread!  Don't move or resist!") to a general civil disturbance near your home ("Police!  Search warrant!  Get away from the door!").

This is the same reason why many Amateur Radio Operators keep at least two sets of equipment -- one for the police to confiscate under Martial Law, and another set up and use on the sly.


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 20,454
Location: Aux Arcs

30 Jun 2020, 9:51 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
This county is full of guns.We haven’t had a homicide in a few years.The last time we did it was meth related.
We had an armed standoff a few months back but the guy had a crossbow.


Rural areas rarely have the dynamics of urban areas even if those urban areas are fairly homogeneous.

True,but there are some similarities.Poverty, alcoholism and drug use.
People aren’t as congested, so you don’t have people waging war over a street corner.People aren’t usually in large groups where you can get hit by stray bullets when rival gangs get into it.
There is a lame gang in Springfield MO called the 417 Honkies ,but they aren’t very organized since they are all tweakers.


There are similarities as well. In some ways the isolation of extreme rural areas (whether they're reservations or other similarly isolated areas) isn't entirely unlikely the isolation that seems to exist in ghettos; there's a similar sense of being trapped and unable to escape those circumstances.

I'd imagine in a more widely distributed community where most people drive there would be far less value to controlling a corner. Who's gonna stop at the one stoplight in town to buy crack or ice? Who's gonna wait there all day for both customers he already knows and can just deliver to? Wouldn't Andy just tell his cousin to go home so he doesn't need to look into it?

Factors like that play into why crime in urban areas is more obvious even if the rural poor likely aren't any less prone to criminal behaviour than urban poor.

True, the hopelessness and feelings of being trapped by poverty are the same.No high paying jobs here and many drive two hours or more for good jobs.
There’s a good documentary on the meth problem here called Meth Storm.Filmed a couple counties over from me.People get trapped in a never ending cycle and have no resources to improve their lot.Get hooked, sell to support habit, got to jail, get out, then repeat.A close family member is doing time right now because they got hooked on meth and went stupid.
I hate that drug.


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

30 Jun 2020, 9:52 am

Magna wrote:
magz wrote:
Magna wrote:
magz wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
This county is full of guns.We haven’t had a homicide in a few years.The last time we did it was meth related.
We had an armed standoff a few months back but the guy had a crossbow.

Rural areas rarely have the dynamics of urban areas even if those urban areas are fairly homogeneous.

When my friend got a scholarship on Svalbard, she had to attend shooting course and she was lent a gun she was required to carry outside human-inhabited areas. The reason: polar bears.
Also, as food is expensive but wildlife abundant and hunting seals is free, students routinely survive on seal meat there.

These are not the bullets that kill random children in bad neighboorhoods.
That's been one of the problems with calls for "gun control" in the U.S. blanket sweeping restrictions that would apply the same for every law abiding citizen (remember criminals don't follow laws). So a law that would prevent someone in the city or suburb from owning a semi-automatic hunting rifle would also prevent someone living in remote rural areas from owning the same rifle they use for protection. Someone living in the remote areas of Alaska, for example, would also be bound by the same blanket laws and perhaps only be allowed to have a single shot bolt action rifle to defend themselves from charging bears.
I think the all-or-nothing blanket policies are generally a problem here. Why are law-abiding US citizens unwilling to register their guns? Registration wouldn't affect effectiveness against bears but American gun owners seem to be afraid that registered weapon is too likely to be taken away from them with another blanket policy.
I think your statement I've bolded above answers your question.

I expect it to be like that and I can understand these fears but on the other hand, with 392,273,257 unregistered but sort of legal firearms in the US, illegal firearms owned by criminals hide like a drop in a sea.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,184
Location: Right over your left shoulder

30 Jun 2020, 9:54 am

Misslizard wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
This county is full of guns.We haven’t had a homicide in a few years.The last time we did it was meth related.
We had an armed standoff a few months back but the guy had a crossbow.


Rural areas rarely have the dynamics of urban areas even if those urban areas are fairly homogeneous.

True,but there are some similarities.Poverty, alcoholism and drug use.
People aren’t as congested, so you don’t have people waging war over a street corner.People aren’t usually in large groups where you can get hit by stray bullets when rival gangs get into it.
There is a lame gang in Springfield MO called the 417 Honkies ,but they aren’t very organized since they are all tweakers.


There are similarities as well. In some ways the isolation of extreme rural areas (whether they're reservations or other similarly isolated areas) isn't entirely unlikely the isolation that seems to exist in ghettos; there's a similar sense of being trapped and unable to escape those circumstances.

I'd imagine in a more widely distributed community where most people drive there would be far less value to controlling a corner. Who's gonna stop at the one stoplight in town to buy crack or ice? Who's gonna wait there all day for both customers he already knows and can just deliver to? Wouldn't Andy just tell his cousin to go home so he doesn't need to look into it?

Factors like that play into why crime in urban areas is more obvious even if the rural poor likely aren't any less prone to criminal behaviour than urban poor.

True, the hopelessness and feelings of being trapped by poverty are the same.No high paying jobs here and many drive two hours or more for good jobs.
There’s a good documentary on the meth problem here called Meth Storm.Filmed a couple counties over from me.People get trapped in a never ending cycle and have no resources to improve their lot.Get hooked, sell to support habit, got to jail, get out, then repeat.A close family member is doing time right now because they got hooked on meth and went stupid.
I hate that drug.


If police tried to deal with that problem by randomly detaining residents from the community, occasionally brutalizing them and blaming them all collectively for the problem it would start to resemble the way the problem plays out elsewhere, but it certainly wouldn't improve it.


_________________
"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


Magna
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,932

30 Jun 2020, 9:54 am

^ What is meant by "sort of legal"?



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

30 Jun 2020, 9:55 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Why are law-abiding US citizens unwilling to register their guns? ... American gun owners seem to be afraid that registered weapon is too likely to be taken away from them with another blanket policy.
You have answered your own question.  Once the government records show that you have guns in your home, that information can be used against you whether for something as simple as an ordinary traffic stop ("Out of the car!  Hands on the hood!  Feet back and legs spread!  Don't move or resist!") to a general civil disturbance near your home ("Police!  Search warrant!  Get away from the door!").

So, not only Blacks fear police brutality in the US.
By the way, I suspect part of police brutality emerges exactly from officers' fear that random citizens are likely to be carrying firearms.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

30 Jun 2020, 9:59 am

Magna wrote:
^ What is meant by "sort of legal"?

Sly tried to explain it to me... you can legally purchase firearms and states do some creative legal tricks to bypass federal requirement to register them.
So, the guns have been legally obtained but their status is sort of questionable.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,184
Location: Right over your left shoulder

30 Jun 2020, 10:03 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Why are law-abiding US citizens unwilling to register their guns? ... American gun owners seem to be afraid that registered weapon is too likely to be taken away from them with another blanket policy.
You have answered your own question.  Once the government records show that you have guns in your home, that information can be used against you whether for something as simple as an ordinary traffic stop ("Out of the car!  Hands on the hood!  Feet back and legs spread!  Don't move or resist!") to a general civil disturbance near your home ("Police!  Search warrant!  Get away from the door!").

So, not only Blacks fear police brutality in the US.
By the way, I suspect part of police brutality emerges exactly from officers' fear that random citizens are likely to be carrying firearms.


Fear of 'the authorities' seems to be deeply engrained in the American psyche, although some communities have more realistic fear on a day-to-day level and some communities have issues that they recognize might require some assistance from above the community, both of those factors inform why this general distrust/suspicion plays out in different ways in different places.

Let's put it this way, sovereign citizen ideology isn't limited to the US, but there's exponentially more violent crime motivated by it in the US than UK, Canada, Australia and NZ combined.

Also, if capcha eats your post, click back twice and just hit submit again. Your posts shouldn't vanish entirely on a PC with Firefox (no insight on other platforms).


_________________
"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


Magna
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,932

30 Jun 2020, 10:16 am

magz wrote:
Magna wrote:
^ What is meant by "sort of legal"?

Sly tried to explain it to me... you can legally purchase firearms and states do some creative legal tricks to bypass federal requirement to register them.
So, the guns have been legally obtained but their status is sort of questionable.


I'm not aware of any federal gun registry in the U.S. so I don't think that's accurate. There is a federal background check for gun purchases from federally licensed gun dealers. All retail gun dealers must be federally licensed and my understanding is that gun dealers must keep records of each person's purchase on premises down to the gun type and serial number. It could be argued that the U.S. already does have a de facto federal gun registry in that the U.S. would simply need to seize all gun dealer records which would give the federal government the names of anyone who purchased a gun, the specific gun or guns they purchased and including information down to their serial numbers. True it wouldn't account for guns acquired/owned prior to the year background checks were mandatory, but "AR15" guns weren't a commonly purchased firearm 20, 30, 40+ years ago. When I was a child, for example, the majority of guns were hunting rifles, shotguns and revolvers.



jimmy m
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,463
Location: Indiana

30 Jun 2020, 10:36 am

Fnord wrote:
an ordinary traffic stop ("Out of the car!  Hands on the hood!  Feet back and legs spread!  Don't move or resist!").


That actually happened to me. I was visiting Chicago and the police stopped me. They told me to get out of the car, put your hands on the hood, spread your legs and they frisked me. Chicago is not the friendliest city. My wife and children were in the car. They were a little shook up. And I am not black.
--------------------
magz wrote:
By the way, I suspect part of police brutality emerges exactly from officers' fear that random citizens are likely to be carrying firearms.


Alaska is a very interesting place. I suspect many Aspies live there.

Alaska is a shall-issue, constitutional carry state. There is no firearms registration, no permit is required to purchase firearms and no background check is required to buy a handgun from a private individual. Open carry is legal in Alaska for any person who is legally allowed to possess a firearm.

So many people carry firearms in their glove compartment of their cars. There is one major law concerning firearms. If you are pulled over, if you have firearms in your car, you must immediately declare it. So it is very common that if you are pulled over by the police when they come up to your car. You just tell them that you have a gun in the glove compartment. And everything is cool.

When you look up the murder rate in the state of Alaska on the Internet - highly variable because of the relatively small numbers of offenses involved -- declined dramatically. There were 47 homicides in 2018, compared to 62 in 2017.


_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."


jimmy m
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,463
Location: Indiana

30 Jun 2020, 10:45 am

The_Walrus wrote:
[quote="jimmy m”]

Crime was rampant in New York City several decades ago. in the 1990s the New York City police commissioner William Bratton and Mayor Rudy Giuliani, adopted the principles of "the broken window theory". The broken windows theory is a criminological theory that states that visible signs of crime, anti-social behavior, and civil disorder create an urban environment that encourages further crime and disorder, including serious crimes. The theory suggests that policing methods that target minor crimes such as vandalism, loitering, public drinking, jaywalking and fare evasion help to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness, thereby preventing more serious crimes. When Bratton resigned in 1996, felonies were down almost 40 percent in New York, and the homicide rate had been halved.[/quote]
It should be noted that
...
3) broken windows theory is similarly not popular. Cities which implement “broken windows” policing don’t see better reductions in serious crime than other cities. And criminals who get housed in nice neighbourhoods still commit the same amount of crime.[/quote][/quote]


The broken window theory may not be currently popular with liberals, but statistically in real life, it was very effective.


_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,184
Location: Right over your left shoulder

30 Jun 2020, 10:58 am

jimmy m wrote:

So many people carry firearms in their glove compartment of their cars. There is one major law concerning firearms. If you are pulled over, if you have firearms in your car, you must immediately declare it. So it is very common that if you are pulled over by the police when they come up to your car. You just tell them that you have a gun in the glove compartment. And everything is cool.


That works out better for some demographics than others.



jimmy m wrote:
The broken window theory may not be currently popular with liberals, but statistically in real life, it was very effective.


If the goal was destroying community relations it was indeed very effective.


_________________
"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 20,454
Location: Aux Arcs

30 Jun 2020, 11:00 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
This county is full of guns.We haven’t had a homicide in a few years.The last time we did it was meth related.
We had an armed standoff a few months back but the guy had a crossbow.


Rural areas rarely have the dynamics of urban areas even if those urban areas are fairly homogeneous.

True,but there are some similarities.Poverty, alcoholism and drug use.
People aren’t as congested, so you don’t have people waging war over a street corner.People aren’t usually in large groups where you can get hit by stray bullets when rival gangs get into it.
There is a lame gang in Springfield MO called the 417 Honkies ,but they aren’t very organized since they are all tweakers.


There are similarities as well. In some ways the isolation of extreme rural areas (whether they're reservations or other similarly isolated areas) isn't entirely unlikely the isolation that seems to exist in ghettos; there's a similar sense of being trapped and unable to escape those circumstances.

I'd imagine in a more widely distributed community where most people drive there would be far less value to controlling a corner. Who's gonna stop at the one stoplight in town to buy crack or ice? Who's gonna wait there all day for both customers he already knows and can just deliver to? Wouldn't Andy just tell his cousin to go home so he doesn't need to look into it?

Factors like that play into why crime in urban areas is more obvious even if the rural poor likely aren't any less prone to criminal behaviour than urban poor.

True, the hopelessness and feelings of being trapped by poverty are the same.No high paying jobs here and many drive two hours or more for good jobs.
There’s a good documentary on the meth problem here called Meth Storm.Filmed a couple counties over from me.People get trapped in a never ending cycle and have no resources to improve their lot.Get hooked, sell to support habit, got to jail, get out, then repeat.A close family member is doing time right now because they got hooked on meth and went stupid.
I hate that drug.


If police tried to deal with that problem by randomly detaining residents from the community, occasionally brutalizing them and blaming them all collectively for the problem it would start to resemble the way the problem plays out elsewhere, but it certainly wouldn't improve it.

Yeah,it’s hard to beat up an in-law , cousin, daddy or someone you went to school with.
Police should be recruiting from the neighborhoods they serve.They know the community and who the real menaces are.
They showed up at my house looking for my crazed relative, about a dozen of them with tactical.Right before Christmas.It turned out to be hilarious because my bio mom was here and her car has retired officer tags.They all piled up behind her car looking confused.They couldn’t exactly raid the place with another cop in the house.They were very polite since one of their blue brethren was inside.Never asked to come in, asked if they could look around the property and I said sure.They started across my field and were met by angry geese.All four car loads loaded up and left.They tore up everyone else residence they arrived at.
Bio mom and I had been chilling inside drinking beers and me smoking my medical when they arrived.
I refer to it as, “When the popo came for Christmas,( and they weren’t bringing gifts.)”
About a week later the relative did show up here, police not soon after.They made a nice quiet arrest.Never asked me about the smoky odor in the house.Carried my addict relation off and sent him to the state hospital for medical detox.He had meth related psychosis.


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


Magna
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,932

30 Jun 2020, 11:03 am

funeralxempire wrote:
jimmy m wrote:

So many people carry firearms in their glove compartment of their cars. There is one major law concerning firearms. If you are pulled over, if you have firearms in your car, you must immediately declare it. So it is very common that if you are pulled over by the police when they come up to your car. You just tell them that you have a gun in the glove compartment. And everything is cool.


That works out better for some demographics than others.



jimmy m wrote:
The broken window theory may not be currently popular with liberals, but statistically in real life, it was very effective.


If the goal was destroying community relations it was indeed very effective.


This is a good point. Make it illegal for hundreds of millions of people or focus on changing the system of which some people have become unfortunate innocent victims. I opt for for the latter. A certain number of people opt for the former.



jimmy m
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,463
Location: Indiana

30 Jun 2020, 11:13 am

Magna wrote:
That's been one of the problems with calls for "gun control" in the U.S. blanket sweeping restrictions that would apply the same for every law abiding citizen (remember criminals don't follow laws). So a law that would prevent someone in the city or suburb from owning a semi-automatic hunting rifle would also prevent someone living in remote rural areas from owning the same rifle they use for protection. Someone living in the remote areas of Alaska, for example, would also be bound by the same blanket laws and perhaps only be allowed to have a single shot bolt action rifle to defend themselves from charging bears.


Precisely!
IMHO, the main objective of gun control should be removing guns from criminals.
Earlier in this thread Wolfram87 brought up an interesting point.

Wolfram87 wrote:
In Europe, there's no market for low-end budget guns. Because of fairly strict gun control for civilians in most of Europe, the quality-to-price lower-end cutoff starts somewhere around a Glock or a low-end Tanfoglio (who make guns for the Israeli military). No one jumps through the hoops required to buy a gun just to buy a Hi-point. Whereas in the US there are oodles of tiny, budget-oriented manufacturers churning out guns catering to people who feel they should have a gun, but also that the object containing a small explosion in their hand should be as cheaply made as possible. Widespread low-end manufacture, with companies starting and going out of business constantly, and people buying guns as an afterthought because America, create the perfect environment for guns getting lost/stolen/found/trafficked or any other way of getting into the wrong hands easily enough.

Meanwhile, in Europe, we are still dealing with the decaying husk of a world superpower in the form of the Soviet Union. Say what you like about the USSR, but they knew how to make guns and to make them in staggering numbers. Ever wonder how Somalia has so many guns? The Soviets turned up and used the entire country as a weapons stockpile. All across Europe and Asia, stockpiles are still turning up, and they're not always found by the most honest of actors. That's the source of 95%+ of Europes illegal gun problems. But somehow, whenever the issue is raised around here, it always results in changes and increased restrictions for legal gun owners, because some joker got a hold of an old Makarov pistol and shot some other joker. But it's much easier to just dump on the most law-abiding group of people (legal gun-owners) and be seen as doing something about the issue instead of dealing with the smuggled guns and actually do something about the issue.


So maybe the solution for the U.S. is to ban cheap guns. Don't ban all guns, just the low end models. That would help to get them out of the hands of gangs and out of the hands of criminals.

I remember years ago visiting a gun shop because I was thinking about buying a gun for self protection. But because I am an Aspie with little street smarts, I visited a gun shop that was in a very poor area of a major city. I was asking technical questions about various guns, when a young black teenager walked in with some of his friends. They to were looking for guns. They selected a large gun, one that was very flashy. Maybe I wouldn't even call it a gun but a small cannon. I thought to myself, how useless that gun would be, you could hardly even lift it up to shoot and once you fired it would probably knock you onto your rear end. But that was what that teenager bought. It was a status symbol. Don't mess with me because I have the biggest gun on the block.


_________________
Author of Practical Preparations for a Coronavirus Pandemic.
A very unique plan. As Dr. Paul Thompson wrote, "This is the very best paper on the virus I have ever seen."