Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an Auto-Antonym

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sly279
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27 Jun 2020, 11:31 pm

magz wrote:
Yes, I've noticed it later.
But Falklands have tiny population. If there was an island with just one citizen and he owned 2 guns, this island would be the leader. Falklands have a homogenous population comparable to a small town or a large village. Social problems don't scale down to these numbers.

When ordered by estimate of firearms in civilian possession, the leading countries are:
1. USA
2. India
3. China
4. Pakistan
5. Russia
6. Brazil
7. Mexico
8. Germany (disputed)
9. Yemen
10. Turkey

Very diverse group.


So you admit it’s a social problem?
Banning alcohol didn’t solve our social problem it just led to organized crime. Everyone still drank alcohol, gangs Thrived. Banning drugs hasn’t stopped anyone from getting drugs. The gangs thrive and profit. They abuse tons of people, they kill thousands.
Somehow while those two bans failed, banning guns will fix our social problems.


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Bradleigh
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27 Jun 2020, 11:36 pm

sly279 wrote:
The Uk banned guns long time ago but the amount of illegal guns they find keep going up not down. You’d expect a island who banned guns would ran out of illegal guns by not not increasing. People smuggle them in same as drugs. Where there’s demand there’s going be a market.


And where do you think most of the guns are made? The USA.

I am also not going to trust your source that is saying that guns are going up because illegal guns are being found, which I am pretty sure has an express interest in making it look like gun control does not work.


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sly279
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28 Jun 2020, 12:26 am

Bradleigh wrote:
sly279 wrote:
The Uk banned guns long time ago but the amount of illegal guns they find keep going up not down. You’d expect a island who banned guns would ran out of illegal guns by not not increasing. People smuggle them in same as drugs. Where there’s demand there’s going be a market.


And where do you think most of the guns are made? The USA.

I am also not going to trust your source that is saying that guns are going up because illegal guns are being found, which I am pretty sure has an express interest in making it look like gun control does not work.

Wrong. Most guns are made in Europe. the biggest gun companies are FN, GLOCK,H&K, CZ,Beretta and sig. All European, rhe USA may be their biggest civilian market. But their main market is militaries and 3rd world nations. Next is Middle East. Though South America has Tarus who sells a lot of guns. Turkey is a big gun maker and sells loads to the USA market too.
There’s only a few USA owned and made gun companies, and they failing fast. Colt has lost all its military contracts to European companies. Remington is failing. Many USA companies got bought buy European companies. Smith and wession. Is probably the last one still going strong. Ruger is still around for now. Springfield armory is owned by a Croatian company for the name rights, the guns are all made in Croatia. American gun makers jusr cant complete with European gun knowledge(making guns for longer the. The USA) and their prices. After Europe would be China. While Chinese designed guns can’t be sold here a lot of guns are made in China. Canada too makes a lot of guns sold here. My savage rifle is made I. Canada. Only two of my guns are made in the USA. Rest are made in Germany, Austria, China, Czech Republic, and turkey.

So why does Europe make millions in gun manufacturing they deem unfit for their own people, except Czech Republic. Oh o forgot until Obama Russia was big seller too but not on the level of Europe. They do sell us trillions of rounds of cheap ammo to shoot though.

European modern polymer, striker fired guns are the preferred guns. The old steel heavy hammer fired guns of USA are not. There’s some who will only buy American but that’s hard to do. I tried to but very gun I bought was made in Europe. I thought savage was American but they candianl moss berg makes a lot of their guns and parts in Mexico.
Even our ammo is mostly made in Europe. Oringal for European market.
Korea provides a lot of ammo. Israel and Russia too.
But it’s not surprising Europeans have been selling guns to American since before we were a nation. They sold to Australia too until they couldn’t. They sell to South Africa as well.

Our own military uses guns made by European companies. It was Beretta, now it’s sig, and fn makes and designed our machine-guns, they make the rifles.
The UK doesn’t design it’s own military guns anymore either, H&K does.
Germany provides guns to the whole world sig, H&K
Cz is Czech Republic
Fn is Belgium.
Beretta is Italian.
Glock is Austrian
IWI is Israel

So why does Europe like gun violence so much?
I’m sure colt would love to have only USA company made guns allowed to be sold in USA. Sadly colt like Springfield armory will soon be gone. Winchester is gone owner by some European company now. After colt smith and wession will be the last oldest USA gun Company and they nit doing too well either.
I forgot Steyr which is Austrian and provided guns for your military. But they don’t hold as much as market in USA. There’s other European companies too but those are the major ones and who holds most of the USA market.
Tika is finish.but owned by berreta


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magz
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28 Jun 2020, 12:40 am

sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
Yes, I've noticed it later.
But Falklands have tiny population. If there was an island with just one citizen and he owned 2 guns, this island would be the leader. Falklands have a homogenous population comparable to a small town or a large village. Social problems don't scale down to these numbers.

When ordered by estimate of firearms in civilian possession, the leading countries are:
1. USA
2. India
3. China
4. Pakistan
5. Russia
6. Brazil
7. Mexico
8. Germany (disputed)
9. Yemen
10. Turkey

Very diverse group.


So you admit it’s a social problem?
Banning alcohol didn’t solve our social problem it just led to organized crime. Everyone still drank alcohol, gangs Thrived. Banning drugs hasn’t stopped anyone from getting drugs. The gangs thrive and profit. They abuse tons of people, they kill thousands.
Somehow while those two bans failed, banning guns will fix our social problems.

Of course I admit children dying from stray bullets because they live in "bad" neighborhood is a social problem. Suddenly banning guns UK-style would solve nothing and likely create a lot of new social problems. The real problem is existence of such neighborhoods and it's not that easy to tackle.


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magz
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28 Jun 2020, 12:44 am

By the way, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated ... by_country claims US has 1,073,743 registered firearms and 392,273,257 unregistered ones - almost 400 times more unregistered guns.
How is that? You just go to a store and buy a gun without any registration required? Just like you were buying a bottle of gin? Is it legal in the US?


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sly279
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28 Jun 2020, 12:53 am

magz wrote:
By the way, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated ... by_country claims US has 1,073,743 registered firearms and 392,273,257 unregistered ones - almost 400 times more unregistered guns.
How is that? You just go to a store and buy a gun without any registration required? Just like you were buying a bottle of gin? Is it legal in the US?

I dont know where they’d get such dates. Unregistered guns is unknown any number would just be a estimate. Most states don’t require registration in fact it’s illegal federally, states have to come up with creative ways to do it.

Background checks are required to buy guns, thsts nit a registeration, there isn’t a list of gun owners to who attack. Would you want a list of autistic people ? In states where they keep lists they get abused, ny released the list of gun owners it had including their names and addresses. People harassed them it’s also a Christmas list for criminal who want to steal guns.
No thanks I don’t want to be on any list. My state breaks the law claiming it’s too expensive for them to hit the delete button on their keyboard. But that’s still not a Registration like California. Registration is always used to take guns.

So when you buy a gun they run a background check and then delete it. The store keeps records of every gun sold for 20 years, then they can destroy them.
Some states just let you show w carry permit. Since thats done through fbi and continuously checked.
Interesting though the fbi does most states background checks for free the states charge up to $50 per background check and gets pure profit.
Which they then use to try to ban guns.


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funeralxempire
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28 Jun 2020, 1:03 am

sly279 wrote:
Wrong. Most guns are made in Europe. the biggest gun companies are FN, GLOCK,H&K, CZ,Beretta and sig. All European, rhe USA may be their biggest civilian market. But their main market is militaries and 3rd world nations. Next is Middle East. Though South America has Tarus who sells a lot of guns. Turkey is a big gun maker and sells loads to the USA market too.
There’s only a few USA owned and made gun companies, and they failing fast. Colt has lost all its military contracts to European companies. Remington is failing. Many USA companies got bought buy European companies. Smith and wession. Is probably the last one still going strong. Ruger is still around for now. Springfield armory is owned by a Croatian company for the name rights, the guns are all made in Croatia. American gun makers jusr cant complete with European gun knowledge(making guns for longer the. The USA) and their prices. After Europe would be China. While Chinese designed guns can’t be sold here a lot of guns are made in China. Canada too makes a lot of guns sold here. My savage rifle is made I. Canada. Only two of my guns are made in the USA. Rest are made in Germany, Austria, China, Czech Republic, and turkey.

So why does Europe make millions in gun manufacturing they deem unfit for their own people, except Czech Republic. Oh o forgot until Obama Russia was big seller too but not on the level of Europe. They do sell us trillions of rounds of cheap ammo to shoot though.

European modern polymer, striker fired guns are the preferred guns. The old steel heavy hammer fired guns of USA are not. There’s some who will only buy American but that’s hard to do. I tried to but very gun I bought was made in Europe. I thought savage was American but they candianl moss berg makes a lot of their guns and parts in Mexico.
Even our ammo is mostly made in Europe. Oringal for European market.
Korea provides a lot of ammo. Israel and Russia too.
But it’s not surprising Europeans have been selling guns to American since before we were a nation. They sold to Australia too until they couldn’t. They sell to South Africa as well.

Our own military uses guns made by European companies. It was Beretta, now it’s sig, and fn makes and designed our machine-guns, they make the rifles.
The UK doesn’t design it’s own military guns anymore either, H&K does.
Germany provides guns to the whole world sig, H&K
Cz is Czech Republic
Fn is Belgium.
Beretta is Italian.
Glock is Austrian
IWI is Israel

So why does Europe like gun violence so much?
I’m sure colt would love to have only USA company made guns allowed to be sold in USA. Sadly colt like Springfield armory will soon be gone. Winchester is gone owner by some European company now. After colt smith and wession will be the last oldest USA gun Company and they nit doing too well either.
I forgot Steyr which is Austrian and provided guns for your military. But they don’t hold as much as market in USA. There’s other European companies too but those are the major ones and who holds most of the USA market.
Tika is finish.but owned by berreta


This is actually a really interesting angle no one's ever addressed. If the companies profiting off of this are mostly foreign, citizens ought to have some form of recourse. Why are European countries fine with their contributions to a problem that causes a lot of dead Americans? Why are Americans fine with European companies profiting off of it?

Protectionist policies would likely help reduce availability of these sorts of weapons for petty organized criminals (they're less suitable if you have to hold on to them after using them, which reducing the supply and increasing cost would accomplish) while also helping the domestic producers.

I'm not sure if that's an approach I would support, but it's weirdly intersectional.


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magz
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28 Jun 2020, 1:03 am

So, basically, yes. You go to a store and buy a gun and you don't have to register it. Seems part of power struggle between the state and the federal legislation.

All cars have to be registered. Do you think they're going to be banned?
As part of "terrorism prevention" legislation, you can't activate a SIM card here without registering it.

Releasing or failing to systematically protect from leaking any list of people with their names and adresses would be illegal in EU.


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sly279
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28 Jun 2020, 1:36 am

magz wrote:
So, basically, yes. You go to a store and buy a gun and you don't have to register it. Seems part of power struggle between the state and the federal legislation.

All cars have to be registered. Do you think they're going to be banned?
As part of "terrorism prevention" legislation, you can't activate a SIM card here without registering it.

Releasing or failing to systematically protect from leaking any list of people with their names and adresses would be illegal in EU.

Cars aren’t in the bill of rights. We have a right to self protection ie to own guns.
Would you be ok with every woman who gets a abortion having to be registered?

I dont know we don’t have a political party pushing to ban cars like we do for guns. Though said party to mandate govners be installed and do ban certain cars, but again cars aren’t a right.
Should people have to register to speak? No cause that’s protected under free speech. like wise protesters don’t have to be registered to vote, hell they don’t even want their faces shown.

“Any right you need to ask permission to use isn’t a right at all” Hillary Clinton.

You register the SIM card with the phone company nit the government but again that’s nit a right.
Anything listed in bill of rights can’t be put on some government gestopo list. Americans are free unlike Europeans. We broke free from such government overreach in 1776


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magz
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28 Jun 2020, 1:51 am

sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
So, basically, yes. You go to a store and buy a gun and you don't have to register it. Seems part of power struggle between the state and the federal legislation.

All cars have to be registered. Do you think they're going to be banned?
As part of "terrorism prevention" legislation, you can't activate a SIM card here without registering it.

Releasing or failing to systematically protect from leaking any list of people with their names and adresses would be illegal in EU.

Cars aren’t in the bill of rights. We have a right to self protection ie to own guns.
Would you be ok with every woman who gets a abortion having to be registered?
I believe legal abortions are registered here, just like any serious medical operations - but you can't just go and ask for a list, medical records are confidential.

sly279 wrote:
I dont know we don’t have a political party pushing to ban cars like we do for guns. Though said party to mandate govners be installed and do ban certain cars, but again cars aren’t a right.
Should people have to register to speak? No cause that’s protected under free speech. like wise protesters don’t have to be registered to vote, hell they don’t even want their faces shown.
You don't have to be registered to vote? How do you prevent multiple votes, then?

sly279 wrote:
“Any right you need to ask permission to use isn’t a right at all” Hillary Clinton.

You register the SIM card with the phone company nit the government but again that’s nit a right.
Anything listed in bill of rights can’t be put on some government gestopo list. Americans are free unlike Europeans. We broke free from such government overreach in 1776
Some broke free, some remained slaves. The whole BLM thing is about descendants of the latter.
Anyway, claiming the situation from 1776 is valid today is... well, here it's obviously absurd.


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sly279
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28 Jun 2020, 3:27 am

magz wrote:
sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
So, basically, yes. You go to a store and buy a gun and you don't have to register it. Seems part of power struggle between the state and the federal legislation.

All cars have to be registered. Do you think they're going to be banned?
As part of "terrorism prevention" legislation, you can't activate a SIM card here without registering it.

Releasing or failing to systematically protect from leaking any list of people with their names and adresses would be illegal in EU.

Cars aren’t in the bill of rights. We have a right to self protection ie to own guns.
Would you be ok with every woman who gets a abortion having to be registered?
I believe legal abortions are registered here, just like any serious medical operations - but you can't just go and ask for a list, medical records are confidential.

sly279 wrote:
I dont know we don’t have a political party pushing to ban cars like we do for guns. Though said party to mandate govners be installed and do ban certain cars, but again cars aren’t a right.
Should people have to register to speak? No cause that’s protected under free speech. like wise protesters don’t have to be registered to vote, hell they don’t even want their faces shown.
You don't have to be registered to vote? How do you prevent multiple votes, then?

sly279 wrote:
“Any right you need to ask permission to use isn’t a right at all” Hillary Clinton.

You register the SIM card with the phone company nit the government but again that’s nit a right.
Anything listed in bill of rights can’t be put on some government gestopo list. Americans are free unlike Europeans. We broke free from such government overreach in 1776
Some broke free, some remained slaves. The whole BLM thing is about descendants of the latter.
Anyway, claiming the situation from 1776 is valid today is... well, here it's obviously absurd.


The USA doesnt keep lists of everyone who’s got abortion. Trump can’t be like I want to track down and loco up everyone who’s got an abortion. Cause a registery doesn’t exist.

Registering to vote is so you can vote for your party in primaries. So go take it up with the parties.
Some states you just show up and show your id.


Freedom is just as valid today as it was in 1776 or 1242.
Free is free. Humans have rights from the day we are born. Some nations choose to acknowledge that and others choose to violate it. I’d rather be with the one protecting it then one who treats me as a peasant born to serve the elite.
I’d think a nation who was occupied and oppressed by nit one but two tyrannical powers would value freedom. I’d also imagine they want everyone to own guns so next time a Tyrannical power tries it again they have a hard time. I think that’s why Czech Republic values gun ownership. Switzerland arms all their people for same reason, likewise does Finland, they don’t want the Russians to over occupy them again.

My right to defend myself and therefore my right to own arms isn’t up for debate.


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28 Jun 2020, 3:49 am

sly279 wrote:
Cars aren’t in the bill of rights. We have a right to self protection ie to own guns.
Would you be ok with every woman who gets a abortion having to be registered?


Doesn't the bill actually give "the people" the ability to create a "well regulated militia" as a reason for being able to bear arms? If anything it sounds like it provides gangs that might regulate themselves well enough as what should be protected over individuals who are a part of no such militia. And also, wouldn't that have been muskets that were arms, not something a child could use?

Why doesn't it allow anyone to just own tanks?


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magz
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28 Jun 2020, 3:54 am

sly279 wrote:
The USA doesnt keep lists of everyone who’s got abortion. Trump can’t be like I want to track down and loco up everyone who’s got an abortion. Cause a registery doesn’t exist.
Oh, there's no national registry. Hospitals keep and archive their documentation, provide statistics and make their documentation available in case something happened where such documentation was relevant.
Telecommunication companies keep their registries and make the information available in case of e.g. an investigation.

sly279 wrote:
Registering to vote is so you can vote for your party in primaries. So go take it up with the parties.
Some states you just show up and show your id.
Here, every person eligible is automatically registered to vote. Parties have nothing to do with it.


sly279 wrote:
Freedom is just as valid today as it was in 1776 or 1242.
Free is free. Humans have rights from the day we are born. Some nations choose to acknowledge that and others choose to violate it. I’d rather be with the one protecting it then one who treats me as a peasant born to serve the elite.
I’d think a nation who was occupied and oppressed by nit one but two tyrannical powers would value freedom. I’d also imagine they want everyone to own guns so next time a Tyrannical power tries it again they have a hard time. I think that’s why Czech Republic values gun ownership. Switzerland arms all their people for same reason, likewise does Finland, they don’t want the Russians to over occupy them again.

My right to defend myself and therefore my right to own arms isn’t up for debate.

Of curse freedom is freedom. Being a slave was being a slave in 1619, 1776, 1865 and now. Serving a jail sentence is not freedom, is it? Being bonded by debts you can never pay is not freedom, is it?

You wrote "Americans are free unlike Europeans", giving arguments for it from 1776. I might surprise you but Europe has changed quite a lot during the last 250 years. I would invite you to come and see for yourself this socialist hell where you can't just go to a store and buy a gun to protect yourself.

(PS - I'm not a fan of the extent of gun control in UK or even here. I think Czechia or Finland have it about right.)


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28 Jun 2020, 4:16 am

Europe isn’t as free as the USA. Nor does Europe respect freedom of speech. Most don’t acknowledge peoples right to self defense. I don’t think I’d want to visit w place where I could be arrested for saying the wrong thing, if I did I’d go visit North Korea.

China, Russia, North Korea and most of Europe have that in common. Only differences are what’s considered not ok to say and the punishment. Europe won’t send you to labor camp for life but they will still throw you in prison for years.

In the USA I can pretty much say whatever I want and can’t be arrested.
No I’ll stay here. This lady years ago wanted to date but she wouldn’t leave Canada and I won’t live outside the us.


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28 Jun 2020, 4:36 am

sly279 wrote:
Europe isn’t as free as the USA. Nor does Europe respect freedom of speech. Most don’t acknowledge peoples right to self defense. I don’t think I’d want to visit w place where I could be arrested for saying the wrong thing, if I did I’d go visit North Korea.

China, Russia, North Korea and most of Europe have that in common. Only differences are what’s considered not ok to say and the punishment. Europe won’t send you to labor camp for life but they will still throw you in prison for years.

In the USA I can pretty much say whatever I want and can’t be arrested.
No I’ll stay here. This lady years ago wanted to date but she wouldn’t leave Canada and I won’t live outside the us.


What can't you say in Europe because you would be thrown into prison for years, that you can say in America?


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28 Jun 2020, 4:55 am

funeralxempire wrote:
This is actually a really interesting angle no one's ever addressed. If the companies profiting off of this are mostly foreign, citizens ought to have some form of recourse. Why are European countries fine with their contributions to a problem that causes a lot of dead Americans? Why are Americans fine with European companies profiting off of it?

Protectionist policies would likely help reduce availability of these sorts of weapons for petty organized criminals (they're less suitable if you have to hold on to them after using them, which reducing the supply and increasing cost would accomplish) while also helping the domestic producers.

I'm not sure if that's an approach I would support, but it's weirdly intersectional.


A few things that you'd need to take into consideration:

In Europe, there's no market for low-end budget guns. Because of fairly strict gun control for civilians in most of Europe, the quality-to-price lower-end cutoff starts somewhere around a Glock or a low-end Tanfoglio (who make guns for the Israeli military). No one jumps through the hoops required to buy a gun just to buy a Hi-point. Whereas in the US there are oodles of tiny, budget-oriented manufacturers churning out guns catering to people who feel they should have a gun, but also that the object containing a small explosion in their hand should be as cheaply made as possible. Widespread low-end manufacture, with companies starting and going out of business constantly, and people buying guns as an afterthought because America, create the perfect environment for guns getting lost/stolen/found/trafficked or any other way of getting into the wrong hands easily enough.

Meanwhile, in Europe, we are still dealing with the decaying husk of a world superpower in the form of the Soviet Union. Say what you like about the USSR, but they knew how to make guns and to make them in staggering numbers. Ever wonder how Somalia has so many guns? The Soviets turned up and used the entire country as a weapons stockpile. All across Europe and Asia, stockpiles are still turning up, and they're not always found by the most honest of actors. That's the source of 95%+ of Europes illegal gun problems. But somehow, whenever the issue is raised around here, it always results in changes and increased restrictions for legal gun owners, because some joker got a hold of an old Makarov pistol and shot some other joker. But it's much easier to just dump on the most law-abiding group of people (legal gun-owners) and be seen as doing something about the issue instead of dealing with the smuggled guns and actually do something about the issue.


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