The implications of "All Lives Matter"

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Someone telling another to check their privilege is not calling them racist, it is informing that they might not be as informed on the experiences of other people as they might think and ask that you listen to what their experience is without assuming that it is the same as yours.

You could use the same if a woman told you that men are as allowed to be as open about their feelings as women are, but this is generally not culturally the case when you have things like adults telling little boys to man up and not be as emotional. And then people wonder why men appear to be so emotionally repressed.

Just because I’m white....doesn’t mean I don’t understand the experience of nonwhite people. It’s racist to assume that I don’t.

I’ve been hanging out with nonwhite people as friends and lovers since childhood. They tell me their experiences. Sometimes, they are unique to nonwhite people. Other times, their experiences reflect my experiences.

I don’t know what to say that you cannot truly know what another person’s life is like unless you have lived it, even if someone has told you some experiences they have had.

Something I have really enjoyed were stories by a woman called Amber Ruffin talking about her experiences being black. Enjoyed it because I think Amber is a total treasure, not because I at all had a good time learning that this is what she had to live with. It also broke my heart, especially of how much must also be unsaid.

Are you saying that you can truly know what another person's like is like? I guess I'm not following you.

Last edited by Magna on 02 Jul 2020, 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I’ve read extensively such authors as Alice Walker, James Baldwin, Maya Angelou, Toni Morrison.

My wife is a Trinidadian of African descent. She has white ancestors—but she doesn’t know them as individuals.

I can’t know what your life is like 100%—because you are an individual distinct from me. But if you’ve been my friend for 20 years, I probably would have a decent notion as to the nature of your life..... no matter what race/ethnicity you are. Not 100%—but not far from there.

You could look exactly the same as twins with same birth sex and spent most of your lives together, and still not have a full grasp of what their experience is if they came out as transgender or had a different sexuality. It can be important to always let people explain their own experience. It is not discriminatory against you if they asked you to check privilege to not talk over an individual.

Of course there is always the possibility they might assume your own experiences to discount your point of view on a subject.

Did I ever say I can absolutely have a “full grasp” of the experiences of a person distinct from myself? If I would ever say that, it’s the loony bin for me!

It’s not “all or nothing.”

I only go as far as “having a pretty good idea.”

Where did I ever say that I wouldn’t want a person to convey their experiences to me? Where did I say I would discount said experiences based on allegedly “superior” knowledge?

You are allowed to agree with SOMETHING that I write. It does not show weakness if you agree with me. Just like it doesn’t show strength if you disagree.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 02 Jul 2020, 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Of course, just don't assume that someone is calling you a racist or something because someone felt the need to ask you to "check your privilege". I think the best thing to do is stay calm and mention what you do know from people telling you their personal experiences, and ask if this person can add anything.

There is the risk that people might then say something that it is not their responsibility to do so, but it makes them feel heard and that you are willing to learn from them.

Hmmm...I rightly stated just yesterday in regard to my trauma which was a direct result of more than one instance of violent crime that since you hadn't experienced such a thing that you were speaking of gun rights and personal safety from a place of privilege. I'm glad that you've provided clarification here that you did not find my statement for you to check your privilege to be discriminatory.

I would be calm about it. I don’t generally get into confrontations with people.

If everybody went around “checking their privilege,” discussion would be stifled.

I’m not going to concede anything because I happen to be white. I have experienced some of the things that minorities have experienced. I’ve been targeted by cops. I’ve been treated roughly by cops. Because they mistakenly thought I was a criminal. Because I was in the “wrong” neighborhood.

I haven’t had it as rough as many other people—but I do have some understanding of how it feels to be profiled. To assume that I don’t because I’m white is dead wrong.

People of all races and ethnicities have many common experiences. And they UNDERSTAND each other.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 02 Jul 2020, 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And you will notice that I never discounted you experience as something that did not happen. But questioned the idea of if just giving everyone guns would actually make everyone safer. Such as if a violent criminal would have the exact same response to the fact you had a gun as the victim, and thus would be more likely to shoot you first rather than risk you shooting them.

You are free to say that I might need to check my privilege in saying and individual in that situation might not feel the need to arm themselves if they think people are more dangerous, but it does not stop me from criticising the fact that the situation should not exist in the first place. As evidenced by my own experience in a country that does not have the problem.

Returning to the original subject...

I noticed that no-one had mentioned a recent Economist/YouGov poll (June 14-16, so during protests) where respondants were asked whether each of "black lives matter" and "all lives matter" had a positive or negative association to them (the following 2 surveys have not asked these questions again, so this is the most recent results).

The results were interesting (some "highlights"):
Black lives matter (7A, page 14):

All lives matter (7B, page 16):


Looking at the results, there looks to be more support for "all lives matter" in the community than would seem apparent in this forum, with it even having a positive association in the "black" community.

Poll results available at https://today.yougov.com/topics/economist/survey-results under "Economist Tables June 15 2020".

But Black Lives Matter still has a higher positive correlation, and All Lives Matter has a higher negative correlation. This despite the fact that white people seem to have a rather disproportionally high negative association with BLM compared to ALM.

So it kind of still pushes that BLM should not be changed to ALM.

Overall, "Black lives matter", with 48% positive is higher than "All lives matter" with 53%?

Are you sure of that?

Oh, you are right, my brain was still fried from reading up about the race realists.

But I do think that we can pull a few things out from the data

Black Lives Matter:


All Lives Matter


I think that what we can take from this is that a lot of the positive opinion of ALM as an alternative is really strong from older and people and those who are mostly leading towards Trump and the Republicans, with Trump voters super negative thinkers of BLM.

My theory is that these are the sort of people that lean towards more conservative media like Fox News that have made an effort to say BLM is bad and ALM is inclusive. That as the person is younger they are more likely to think BLM is good and ALM is bad, and reverses as it the person gets older. People probably really easily scared by news telling them that scary riots are connected to BLM, and probably more likely to not understand that racism was not fixed when segregation was ended.

We already had a reasonable idea it may be a partisan issue, just based on what is said on this site (inclusive\exclusive terms, implied wording\literal reading, etc.).

And that was why I highlighted the "independant" and "moderate" responces, as they are the important ones that need to be convinced.

Black lives matter:


All lives matter: