Cancel culture - From the other side

Post Reply New Topic

Let's face the reality. she doesn't want to share a public bathroom with a trans. That's intolerance.

No, she believes there are serious problems with opening up women's safe spaces to any man who identifies with being a woman. Feel free to debate that topic, but that doesn't make her a bigot for expressing that view.

You want to get into this, okay, lets get into this.

Even if she thinks that she would have been encouraged to change sexes when she was younger, this does not mean it is a fact, nor does it mean she would have passed the incredibly intrusive testing that is done by the doctors to figure out if it was just a phase. If she is really curious about this part she could question people who have gone through the process or doctors that preside over it, instead she has just made the decision that the whole thing is bad and no person would be able to know if they were transgender at a young age, which is incredibly condescending.

Fine, she is a feminist, so am I. The difference here is that her comic shows that she does not think certain women are worth protecting, notable from the fact that transgender people are actually far more likely to be victims, certain studies found that 47% of transgender people are sexually assaulted at some point in their lifetime.
https://www.hrc.org/resources/sexual-as ... -community

If she is still worried about people acting in bad faith, that is fine, but she has to find a way to talk about it that does not portray it as a problem of people using being transgender as an excuse as hungry predators. Why? Because transgender people have to put up with a whole lot of s**t, and being seen with suspicion and hatred as monsters in disguise is absolutely disgusting. It ignores the experiences of those people, and throws them to the wolves. Some women uncomfortable with what they think might be a man peeing in the stall next to them? Do they understand what it must be like for all the transgender women forced into the actual men's room?

No, she doesn't. Her comic would rather portray the whole thing as hungry crocodiles slithering into safe spaces to prey on helpless newts. It does not even address the fact of what would be stopping it from happening in the first place. That transgender women are actually quite often turned away from domestic violence centers for not passing well enough, and are generally going to be looked down on for being too masculine for female spaces, and too feminine for masculine spaces. It just paints the whole thing as innocent people being preyed on. It is disgusting. A phrase that transgender people can find being thrown at them for simply existing.

If the comic is the start of a conversation, then what is being discussed? Some way that actual transgender people can be more safely accepted into gendered spaces so they feel safe too, along with means that people who are unsure can also safely experiment? Or that this whole letting transgender people in is just going to open the door to evil monsters, so screw them because I have issues with the opposite sex?

There are plenty of way she could discuss it in a more nuanced manner that treats actual transgender people as their identified gender, but instead she painted the whole thing with broad strokes that can only come across as transphobic and bigoted. Because through her comments you can read that she thinks transgender people are just confused. From these simple facts you can read that she is trans exclusionary, and thus a radical for how she excludes trans women from being protected as women despite being a feminist, a Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist.

She is intolerant of people with a different belief to hers, that trans people are valid, and thus a bigot.

How is she intolerant? She expressed an opinion, one that quite a few folks in the trans community agree with.
The real intolerance is coming from people like yourself who want to shout everyone down who doesn't agree with your rigid ideolgy.

That has to quality as one of the most ironic comments I've read on this site in awhile. It's a definite example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Let's face the reality. she doesn't want to share a public bathroom with a trans. That's intolerance.

Explain to me how that comic is not an attack on trans women.

Actually...The only issue she had was with "self identifying" trans women, not all trans people, which may be too subtle a differentiation for you to understand.

"Self identifying" allows for a person to suddenly "decide", on the spur of the moment, that they wish to identify as something, which they can then, 5 minutes later reconsider and "self identify" in a completely different way. There is no objective (or external) way to prove that this "self identifying" was in fact genuine, rather than opportunistic.

Again, there is no evidence that she is intollerent of people with a different belief to hers, just that her beliefs may not match those of others.

To label a person who has shown a nuanced view of the topic as a "bigot" actually reflects more on the person placing judgement than on the person with that nuanced view.

Nope...There is no inidcation that she has a problem with a trans person using the bathroom with her, it is the "self identifying" trans person, where there is no way to determine whether they are legitimately "self identifying", or have "self identified" for other reasons and will then "self identify" as their original identity once their purpose for using that area has ceased that she specifically indicated was the issue.

It is an attempt to shut down the discussion by saying better safe than sorry

since female to male would never go into a female bathroom.

As I mentioned to vegetableman, deciding whom is entitled to enter a female bathroom is a slippery slope

Nope...There is no inidcation that she has a problem with a trans person using the bathroom with her, it is the "self identifying" trans person, where there is no way to determine whether they are legitimately "self identifying", or have "self identified" for other reasons and will then "self identify" as their original identity once their purpose for using that area has ceased that she specifically indicated was the issue.

What is it that makes you expect people to be able to prove a negative?

The onus is on you to show how it is an attack, not for others to show it isn't. They can then refute your claims, which will in turn demonstrate that which you ask.

The fact that you appear "triggered" by this gives the appearance that while you can intellectually see that it is not an attack, you aren't able to balance this with your "beliefs" regarding the subject matter.

Oh. Jesus! Really? How is she trying to shut down discussion? That sounds like the cancel culture, to me. She's just expressing an opinion, then the morons come at her with moronic terms like "TERF", and all the cult members of the radical left fall in line like good little brainwashed sheeple.

That's not exactly a tactic that leads to intelligent discussion, is it?

It's already been decided though, in countries all over the world: males are not supposed to enter the women's room. It's been that way for generations. Was that decision a slippery slope? What do you think it might "slip" into?

How can it be an attack on self identifying transgender women, but not an attack on actual transgender women? Is a self identifying trans person even necessarily a problem? They are all self identifying until they get some recognition from an authority like a doctor.




No, I know that it is an attack, she might even think that she is excluding "the good transgenders", but it does not make it any less of an attack. What are transwomen who may not yet able to pass so well meant to look at that and think? That it is fine because the other people will be able to look into their minds and know that they are not crocodiles?

It is an attack because no where in that comic does it leave wiggle room for actual transgender people to be accepted, I already said it would be more fine if it did find a way, but it does not. I am not asking you to prove a negative, I am asking you to prove how it does not leave actual transgender people lumped in with the monsters. You can't.

I will calm down for a moment and express what I intellectually see. I think she is scared, that as a previous generation feminist a lot of the rights of women was won by what biological pieces women are supposed to have and fighting for their autonomy over that, and that men are the oppressors. I think that her beliefs in these areas do not line up with what she is being told now that some girls are born with boy bits, and she is so absolutely afraid of men as monsters, that she does not think their safety is worth the actual minimal possibility that some monster would use it as an excuse. Because in her mind, men are dangerous, this is what the older feminists spread where they might punish young boys for being born male.

As an AMAB non-binary person I find it incredibly offensive, and I know that there are people who would find it more so than me. If you don't understand why, try to listen for once instead of assuming we don't know why. Because I can assure you that the trans-women forced into men's room are far more in danger from the predators who would try something as brazing as pretending to get into women's spaces than cis women.