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Aspiegaming
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17 Jul 2020, 11:40 am

I see the afterlife as just as corrupt as regular life.

God made a deal with the devil. In exchange for a limitless energy source made from extracting tortured human souls to keep heaven alive, all humans must burn in hell. If they are wealthy, they can bribe their way out of it and spend eternity in heaven.


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Redd_Kross
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17 Jul 2020, 7:03 pm

As far as you're concerned, nothing. You cease to have consciousness and that's it.

We pump up our own egos by believing we're significant enough to have an afterlife.

The key thing is what happens to those who are left. There may well be upset.

Keep that to a minimum by leaving your affairs in good order and with sufficient cash that everyone can have a bloody good party in your memory.



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17 Jul 2020, 7:51 pm

Redd_Kross wrote:
As far as you're concerned, nothing. You cease to have consciousness and that's it.

We pump up our own egos by believing we're significant enough to have an afterlife.


Hmmm, I would propose that option 6/eternal nothingness is actually a far more egotistical theory. It suggests that existence is only possible as you. In other words, you are all that exists. And that was option five. I don't really think that you can actually separate option five and six. If you believe option six, then option five must follow by default.

Even materialists would agree that after you die, new material beings will come into existence from material causes, wouldn't they? And wouldn't those new lives have consciousness, just as you do now? So consciousness doesn't disappear when you die.

But you wrote that as far as "you're" concerned, nothing, and I would most likely agree (though I still don't claim to know anything for sure) that you do cease to exist when you die. But life doesn't cease to exist since other lives will begin after yours ends. At least, unless you believe option five, which I don't think too many folks do. And since other lives continue to start after yours is over, life goes on even after you die. :)

It's just so puzzling to me that the vast majority of folks can't seem to comprehend existing as anything other than themselves. Isn't that the most egotistical thing of all? :)



domineekee
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17 Jul 2020, 8:05 pm

We die, if there is pain we actively embrace the end. The will to be and and to create these imaginings become inconsequential, we wish for non existence and only the living wish for a continuation.



Redd_Kross
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17 Jul 2020, 8:19 pm

Dreamtastic wrote:
Hmmm, I would propose that option 6/eternal nothingness is actually a far more egotistical theory. It suggests that existence is only possible as you. In other words, you are all that exists. And that was option five. I don't really think that you can actually separate option five and six. If you believe option six, then option five must follow by default.

Even materialists would agree that after you die, new material beings will come into existence from material causes, wouldn't they? And wouldn't those new lives have consciousness, just as you do now? So consciousness doesn't disappear when you die.

But you wrote that as far as "you're" concerned, nothing, and I would most likely agree (though I still don't claim to know anything for sure) that you do cease to exist when you die. But life doesn't cease to exist since other lives will begin after yours ends. At least, unless you believe option five, which I don't think too many folks do. And since other lives continue to start after yours is over, life goes on even after you die. :)

It's just so puzzling to me that the vast majority of folks can't seem to comprehend existing as anything other than themselves. Isn't that the most egotistical thing of all? :)


You're jumbling up individual perception with bigger picture thinking. Consciousness is the key to "I". That's what makes you, you. We still exist after we die, as atoms gradually blending back into nature's universal melting pot, but our individual consciousness is no longer there. There's nothing egotistical about that, it's just a fact. If another consciousness grows from our ashes, that's a thing in itself, not an extension of us, because it retains no link to the consciousness that was us. Yes there is life continuing on, but it isn't ours. We're no longer capable of interacting with it, caring about it or appreciating it in any way, so at an (ex) individual level that's now meaningless, because there's no way of appreciating its meaning. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but it no longer exists TO US, because there's no longer an US to consider anything about it. For those who live on, life is far from meaningless. What happens when we die is we no longer have the ability to comprehend what's happening to the living, because we're dead. There's nothing egotistical about that, you've just had your plug pulled and that's it.

"I think therefore I am". No think = no "am".



Edna3362
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18 Jul 2020, 12:11 am

When we die, there's no more brain activity.

When we die, our body stops flowing blood and respiration, rigor mortis sets in and bodily chemical releases.

:lol: Unless you'd rather be cremated. Or be buried elsewhere sooner or embalmed differently, it'll continue on like this;

The body would bloat, organisms goes insects and all of it and it'll start to smell.
As the body decomposes, organs starts to go watery of sorts. The body will start to rot, dry off and eventually bones would remain.



I've been in a state of fearlessness that is beyond myself -- beyond my mind and body:
It tells me that life and death are one and the same. Fear one, you'd fear both.

The body would always will say otherwise -- the body is an animal of sorts.
While the mind will make up a lot of things -- be it as dry as cold facts about death or as juicy as myths -- depends on one's ego where it believes or speculates.
Both will do what it must in order to survive.

Anything beyond that doesn't and doesn't need a drive to preserve itself.


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funeralxempire
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18 Jul 2020, 12:26 am

Your insides start to putrefy and your remains start to puff up from gases generated by the decomposition process.


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CockneyRebel
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18 Jul 2020, 12:37 am

I agree with option #1. I think that we go somewhere when we pass away. If you've asked Jesus into your heart, you go to Heaven.


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goldfish21
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18 Jul 2020, 2:48 pm

Our physical bodies cease to live and function & they decompose to become food for insects and flowers etc - all just a bunch of decaying organic matter going through it’s cycle of use and reuse like everything else in the known universe.

Our etheric bodies, otoh, (or spirit or ghost or aura or whatever you want to call it) are energy that cannot be created not destroyed. They leave our physical body and join the ancestral plane (or spirit world or heaven or what’re you want to call it) and continue their existence into perpetuity - Maybe. I’m not sure if reincarnation is a thing or not; but many cultures do believe it is and many people have claimed to have memories of passed lives, so it is entirely possible that perhaps much of our worldly memories are “formatted,” and we return to this Earth as another baby human Or other life form.

There are certain psychedelic drugs said to put our brains into the mode that we can experience and communicate with the spirit world. The most popular would be DMT, which is produced naturally on our brains and released in small doses when we fall asleep (and is thought to be responsible for vivid dreams) and a very high dose a bit before we die. It’s whats responsible for NDE’s (bear death experiences) and people’s lives flashing before their eyes/seeing the light at the end of the tunnel etc. I have never done this drug, but am reading a book about it written by a medical doctor who studied it. I know many people that have done it. Eventually, at the right time, I’ll do it. It’s a short acting drug (typically 20mins or less) but the experience is said to be so incredibly rapid that it feels like hours or days. People see the same “entities,” communicate with them telepathically, and hear a sort of drone sound I’ve read referred to has the cicada hum of the universe.

There are other psychedelics done traditionally to access communication with the ancestral plane, too. Like peyote - which a late friend’s father has done many times in ceremonies at the native church. Apparently the experience is.. spiritual, however, it makes you vomit for hours while doing it lol so my friend that passed told me don’t do it! Ha - meanwhile, if I ever have an invite to join a proper ceremony of celebration or mourning I’ll spend the couple days drinking tea and being sick just to see what it’s all about for myself.

I have done other psychedelics, uncurling many trips on magic mushrooms - the safest recreational drug known to man. Literally safer than alcohol, marijuana, or nicotine. I have done them many, many, times and know the experience at varying doses extremely well. I never would have considered it one of the drugs that could enable access and communication with the spirit world in the way that DMT and peyote are described as I Assumed that I had already experienced everything mushrooms could possibly do - until the most recent time I did them and I had 2-3 brand new to me trip experiences, including direct communication with my Indigenous friend that passed away this past Spring. At his funeral (the most beautiful funeral I have, and likely will, E V E R attended.) an Elder told us not to think of him in the past tense because he is always with us everywhere in our hearts and minds, guiding us from the ancestral plane. It’s a nice sentiment and belief system for sure, but after recently having had direct communication with him in a sort of telepathic way combined with watching his visual signals in the sky (it was as if he reached his strong arm down beneath the clouds and gave them a swirl to show me he was in fact right there and I wasn’t just dreaming it.) I am 100% convinced for the rest of my life that this afterlife phenomenon is in fact 100% without a doubt irrefutably Real and nothing and no one can ever, ever, Ever, convince me otherwise. We had a full blown conversation - not just me watching clouds in the wind like any other mushroom trip.

Sooo, yeah. IMO these things are real. Our bodies and brains are designed to reveal these things to us during the process of our bodies dying, But, we’re Also able to put our brains into these same operational modes via chemical means instead of waiting for the natural process of dying to happen. Certain psychedelics put our brains and consciousness temporarily into this mode and we’re able to experience a taste of the spirit world without having to die first. Trippy, eh?

I’d also like to draw attention to my favourite EzraS post of all time that he made in my thread here: (News story about a near death experience, EraS shared his story of his NDE)

viewtopic.php?t=384873


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18 Jul 2020, 3:42 pm

Based on close calls and reviving. As someone whom prefers atheistic understandings , having coming from
A serious upbringing of heaven and hell . Seems the big sleep is what I have experienced . Hard for me not to think of a recycling event of the concept of Id and super-ego , there maybe a continuity of the Big Bang theory ,
Whereas one becomes part of the Essence of premordial galactic energies . It helps me to have survived my experiences, to have faith in this idea .


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The_Walrus
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18 Jul 2020, 4:06 pm

Don’t ask questions, just make sure you survive.



bee33
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18 Jul 2020, 9:33 pm

I am baffled that so many people have supernatural beliefs. The existence of any kind of supernatural plane is essentially impossible, given what we do know, and is entirely an invention of the human imagination. The physical world is all there is. Nothing happens after we die. It's just like when a flower or an insect dies. I don't even think it's an interesting question.



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18 Jul 2020, 9:53 pm

bee33 wrote:
I am baffled that so many people have supernatural beliefs. The existence of any kind of supernatural plane is essentially impossible, given what we do know, and is entirely an invention of the human imagination. The physical world is all there is. Nothing happens after we die. It's just like when a flower or an insect dies. I don't even think it's an interesting question.


And what exactly do you base this certainty on?

Your extensive experience with the metaphysical and all things spiritual?

Even the CIA recently releases documents stating they’ve explored realms of consciousness, energies, astral projection, and the concept of the universe being a projected reality and something about human brain activity that only occurs during these experiences, thus proving their existence. No joke.

IMO, you have no idea what you’re talking about and base your certainty of things not existing on the basis that you don’t know a thing about them and have never had an experience with them, and thus they cannot possibly be real. Reality check: Just because you don’t believe something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.


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Lilinoe
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18 Jul 2020, 10:19 pm

I'm a fan of modern science, so I believe that in a sense we live forever. Time is the way the world represents itself to us (good sources: eg. Carlo Rovelli, Kant), but it is not the way world actually *is*, any more than the Newtonian physics describes things happening in quantum level of existence.

Therefore, while our existence as individuals is limited, our place in the universe is permanent. Consider ancient Romans or dinosaurs: certainly no such beings exist *right now*, yet the existence of ancient Romans once is a fact, and continues to explain many things about how the world is as it is today. Ancient Romans are not *removed* from the universe simply because they no longer exist as active, tangible agents. History of our world, and universe, would remain incomplete if we treat them as things that are totally disconnected from existence. Therefore, even though we perceive our existence as limited, in a way this is not exactly true. Our "active period" in existence is limited, but we and the consequences of our actions will always be part of the universe as a whole.

Another question altogether is, whether "the existence as experienced by me as an individual", continues after I die. Obviously, not. Even though some sort of "soul" would survive, this thing would be so different from me as a living person existing physically, that I'm not sure if it would retain enough of my essential features to be called as "me" in any sensible meaning- after all, "I" am a physical being capable of interacting with physical world in great many ways and unaware of any capability to act and continue to create memories contributing to my story as a bodiless entity.

IMO, time is of essence here. I have yet to meet a believer of any faith whose idea of "eternal life" fully embraces and enjoys the idea of existing tens of thousands or millions of years into future. Most people's span of interest seems to end near two or three generations into the future. On the other hand, the thought about "eternal life" as "timelessness" is an internally contradictory concept because perceiving things in linear time is a pretty essential part of our existential experience...to put it simpler: where there is eternity, there is no life because life is defined by events that take place *in time dimension*.



bee33
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18 Jul 2020, 10:24 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
bee33 wrote:
I am baffled that so many people have supernatural beliefs. The existence of any kind of supernatural plane is essentially impossible, given what we do know, and is entirely an invention of the human imagination. The physical world is all there is. Nothing happens after we die. It's just like when a flower or an insect dies. I don't even think it's an interesting question.


And what exactly do you base this certainty on?

Your extensive experience with the metaphysical and all things spiritual?

Even the CIA recently releases documents stating they’ve explored realms of consciousness, energies, astral projection, and the concept of the universe being a projected reality and something about human brain activity that only occurs during these experiences, thus proving their existence. No joke.

IMO, you have no idea what you’re talking about and base your certainty of things not existing on the basis that you don’t know a thing about them and have never had an experience with them, and thus they cannot possibly be real. Reality check: Just because you don’t believe something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
I cannot have extensive experience or knowledge of something that does not exist. No one can.

My certainty is based on the fact that human fables and imagined truths cannot be real, precisely because they are the product of the human imagination. It's likely that many unexpected and unknown things exist that humans don't know about, and can't even imagine, but the things that humans have imagined, and created stories about, cannot be real.



bee33
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18 Jul 2020, 10:27 pm

Lilinoe wrote:
I'm a fan of modern science, so I believe that in a sense we live forever. Time is the way the world represents itself to us (good sources: eg. Carlo Rovelli, Kant), but it is not the way world actually *is*, any more than the Newtonian physics describes things happening in quantum level of existence.

Therefore, while our existence as individuals is limited, our place in the universe is permanent. Consider ancient Romans or dinosaurs: certainly no such beings exist *right now*, yet the existence of ancient Romans once is a fact, and continues to explain many things about how the world is as it is today. Ancient Romans are not *removed* from the universe simply because they no longer exist as active, tangible agents. History of our world, and universe, would remain incomplete if we treat them as things that are totally disconnected from existence. Therefore, even though we perceive our existence as limited, in a way this is not exactly true. Our "active period" in existence is limited, but we and the consequences of our actions will always be part of the universe as a whole.

Another question altogether is, whether "the existence as experienced by me as an individual", continues after I die. Obviously, not. Even though some sort of "soul" would survive, this thing would be so different from me as a living person existing physically, that I'm not sure if it would retain enough of my essential features to be called as "me" in any sensible meaning- after all, "I" am a physical being capable of interacting with physical world in great many ways and unaware of any capability to act and continue to create memories contributing to my story as a bodiless entity.

IMO, time is of essence here. I have yet to meet a believer of any faith whose idea of "eternal life" fully embraces and enjoys the idea of existing tens of thousands or millions of years into future. Most people's span of interest seems to end near two or three generations into the future. On the other hand, the thought about "eternal life" as "timelessness" is an internally contradictory concept because perceiving things in linear time is a pretty essential part of our existential experience...to put it simpler: where there is eternity, there is no life because life is defined by events that take place *in time dimension*.
This is great. Thank you for posting.