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Romofan
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25 Jul 2020, 6:40 pm

I think Detective Rust Cohle (True Detective, season 1) pretty much nailed it:

I think human consciousness, is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware, nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself, we are creatures that should not exist by natural law. We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self; an accretion of sensory, experience and feeling, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody is nobody.


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techstepgenr8tion
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25 Jul 2020, 7:59 pm

Romofan wrote:
I think Detective Rust Cohle (True Detective, season 1) pretty much nailed it:

I think human consciousness, is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware, nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself, we are creatures that should not exist by natural law. We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self; an accretion of sensory, experience and feeling, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody is nobody.

Part of the problem with our species - there's very little in the universe that's psychologically obligated to the task of proving to other things like itself that it isn't redundant.

There's no such thing for example as as a redundant rock, a redundant planet, a redundant galaxy, there's no such thing technically as a redundant tree or a redundant ant or bee, or at least to the extent that there is redundant biological life it simply dies for lack of food and even theoretically non-redundant life would be food for predators - there's no need to perseverance on it and there's no throng of other animals or plants to tell a plant that's dying that it's being punished for its inferiority and deserves even worse. We, OTOH, have to prove constantly that we shouldn't be pushed down a flight of stairs for entertainment and on the other side people keep raising the bar on what that means simply because everyone's that desperately determined to prove to their would-be executioners that they aren't redundant.


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cyberdad
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25 Jul 2020, 8:59 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
like 'wait wasn't the serpent the good guy than for telling them the truth'...and I was told 'no the snake is evil' but it never made sense to me, since he was just trying to give them knowledge and knowledge is good right?

I grew up christian and yeah the idea is Adam and Eve got punished for seeking knowledge and that is good and just...but I never thought it was, I always felt like god was a f*****g as*hole if he literally doomed adam and eve just because they seeked out knowledge. Like why the hell would I want to worship or even acknowledge that god?


Its no accident that the serpent in Eden was trying to impart knowledge and wisdom to Adam. In almost every culture in the world the serpent is associated with teaching knowledge and wisdom to mankind. Just google it.

I think monotheism wanted to attack the source of such beliefs and so in the old testament it's no accident that satan's first form was the serpent. But christians never quite understood why Moses's brother Aaron practiced magic invoking serpents to scare pharoah to let the children of israel free. Or why Caduceus is a symbol with a short staff entwined by two serpents from ancient Egypt still represents medicine to this day and why doctors who take the hippocratic oath swear their oath to symbol of two serpents on a staff.



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25 Jul 2020, 9:02 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
There's no such thing for example as as a redundant rock, a redundant planet, a redundant galaxy, there's no such thing technically as a redundant tree or a redundant ant or bee, or at least to the extent that there is redundant biological life it simply dies for lack of food and even theoretically non-redundant life would be food for predators - there's no need to perseverance on it and there's no throng of other animals or plants to tell a plant that's dying that it's being punished for its inferiority and deserves even worse. We, OTOH, have to prove constantly that we shouldn't be pushed down a flight of stairs for entertainment and on the other side people keep raising the bar on what that means simply because everyone's that desperately determined to prove to their would-be executioners that they aren't redundant.


As a geologist you would appreciate that every element in our body is star dust....



techstepgenr8tion
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25 Jul 2020, 9:24 pm

cyberdad wrote:
As a geologist you would appreciate that every element in our body is star dust....

And a geologist would likely be a Moby fan (or at least a fan of 'We Are All Made of Stars') and, since Moby makes his music mostly with synthesizers and samplers, a geologist would declare those the premier tools/instruments of purveying truth. I could also talk about the geologist being a Japanophile or Germanophile because a great many early synthesizers came from those two countries but I've probably made my point.


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Romofan
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25 Jul 2020, 9:42 pm

"Every Man and Every Woman is a Star"

----Aleister Crowley


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cyberdad
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26 Jul 2020, 12:11 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
And a geologist would likely be a Moby fan (or at least a fan of 'We Are All Made of Stars') and, since Moby makes his music mostly with synthesizers and samplers, a geologist would declare those the premier tools/instruments of purveying truth. I could also talk about the geologist being a Japanophile or Germanophile because a great many early synthesizers came from those two countries but I've probably made my point.


Yes I can see the connection but carbon and silicon are also from the stars as well so a shout out to plastic :lol:

Notable mentions include David Bowie, Coldplay and Rihanna for mentioning our connection to stars



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26 Jul 2020, 3:16 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Yep, as Kurt Cobain so eloquently put it....Pain
You know you're right

If you feel dissonance about truth that's about all that's right


I am lucky, I have no dissonance, I know my truth, it is both liberating and hard labour :D You will know yours too when you meet it.


Why did the serpent get such a hard time by the Abrahamic religions?


IDK I always liked the serpent, hell even when I heard the story of eden...i couldn't rationalize how it was wrong for the snake to tell her the truth that she then told to her boyfriend and god punished them just because they had gone after the tree of 'knowledge' but why shouldn't they have had knowledge? Seems concerning if god punished them just for seeking knowledge. So yeah even as a kid I had to question that, like 'wait wasn't the serpent the good guy than for telling them the truth'...and I was told 'no the snake is evil' but it never made sense to me, since he was just trying to give them knowledge and knowledge is good right?

I grew up christian and yeah the idea is Adam and Eve got punished for seeking knowledge and that is good and just...but I never thought it was, I always felt like god was a f*****g as*hole if he literally doomed adam and eve just because they seeked out knowledge. Like why the hell would I want to worship or even acknowledge that god?

looking at our bloody history, i can sorta see god's point. he knew his creation could not handle the knowledge of good and evil.



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26 Jul 2020, 3:55 am

auntblabby wrote:
looking at our bloody history, i can sorta see god's point. he knew his creation could not handle the knowledge of good and evil.


He has pressed ctr-alt-delete on a few occasions....to quote James Baldwin
God gave Noah the rainbow sign
No more water, the fire next time



techstepgenr8tion
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26 Jul 2020, 11:26 am

cyberdad wrote:
Yes I can see the connection but carbon and silicon are also from the stars as well so a shout out to plastic :lol:

Notable mentions include David Bowie, Coldplay and Rihanna for mentioning our connection to stars

Sounds like a 'theory of everything' being born as we speak!


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28 Jul 2020, 11:19 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Romofan wrote:
I think Detective Rust Cohle (True Detective, season 1) pretty much nailed it:

I think human consciousness, is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware, nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself, we are creatures that should not exist by natural law. We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self; an accretion of sensory, experience and feeling, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody is nobody.

Part of the problem with our species - there's very little in the universe that's psychologically obligated to the task of proving to other things like itself that it isn't redundant.

There's no such thing for example as as a redundant rock, a redundant planet, a redundant galaxy, there's no such thing technically as a redundant tree or a redundant ant or bee, or at least to the extent that there is redundant biological life it simply dies for lack of food and even theoretically non-redundant life would be food for predators - there's no need to perseverance on it and there's no throng of other animals or plants to tell a plant that's dying that it's being punished for its inferiority and deserves even worse. We, OTOH, have to prove constantly that we shouldn't be pushed down a flight of stairs for entertainment and on the other side people keep raising the bar on what that means simply because everyone's that desperately determined to prove to their would-be executioners that they aren't redundant.


! !! !

meanwhile, therapists/psychologists/motivational speakers and writers, urge you to know your worth to achieve success and happiness, and not succumb.

no point in saying that if reality shows a person a different outcome repeatedly because of who/how they are.

P.S. VERY WELL PUT AND MEANINGFUL POST BY YOU


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28 Jul 2020, 11:46 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Yes I can see the connection but carbon and silicon are also from the stars as well so a shout out to plastic :lol:

Notable mentions include David Bowie, Coldplay and Rihanna for mentioning our connection to stars

Sounds like a 'theory of everything' being born as we speak!


I am fascinated by thermodynamics. In some ways life is a way the universe seems to be moving against the first law that energy cannot be created and that life goes against random entropy in that we are creating order in the universe.



techstepgenr8tion
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28 Jul 2020, 11:53 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
! ! ! !

meanwhile, therapists/psychologists/motivational speakers and writers, urge you to know your worth to achieve success and happiness, and not succumb.

no point in saying that if reality shows a person a different outcome repeatedly because of who/how they are.

P.S. VERY WELL PUT AND MEANINGFUL POST BY YOU

I really like the way Daniel Schmachtenberger puts it - we're not apex predators by a long shot (especially thinking about mile-long fishing nets, our ability to even willfully split atoms), we're more like sh--ty gods/goddesses in comparison to that model and yet there's something in how we do society that keeps the door open to that sort of game theory, and our world gets swallowed by it over time much the way it is now.

Seems like the trick is we either figure out how to handle that aspect as a civilization (ie. not have a civilization where bad faith and deceit always get the upper hand), or we hit either a massive reset or go the way of the dinosaurs, and a massive reset would likely just bring us back at some point into the future to making that same decision again.


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techstepgenr8tion
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28 Jul 2020, 11:56 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I am fascinated by thermodynamics. In some ways life is a way the universe seems to be moving against the first law that energy cannot be created and that life goes against random entropy in that we are creating order in the universe.

Isn't there a theory that life, at least in the mechanical sense, acts as a heat dissipation at points where there's a hard knee - like between the surface of a planet (heated by a nearby star) and the cold of outer space? While fractal growth patterns seem like a cheap way to build a lot of things on the cheap as far as starting information there might also be that heat dissipation component shaping how that works.


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