Does Vladimir Putin have traits of Asperger's Syndrome?

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Romofan
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31 Jul 2020, 7:50 am

Are there Aspies that aren't particularly nice or rule bound? Silicon Valley sure seems to have turned some up. And I suspect that some chess Grandmasters have a dash of Autism in their natures. Bobby Fisher (who was obsessed with politics, btw) comes to mind.

Hans Asperger's original batch of tykes contained some spiteful bad eggs. Didn't Asperger originally label them "autistic psychopaths?"

All of this makes me think of young Adolf H, shambling around Vienna with only his vicious special interests keeping him going...


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aghogday
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31 Jul 2020, 8:45 am

Alex_2x4 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Nope. As a spymaster who is skilled in seeing weakness and exploiting it, is the opposite of Asperger's.


That's what I was thinking , could an Aspie participate in old school KGB spycraft , I seriously doubt it.

Interestingly enough though the hyper-connectivity of synesthetes' minds may make them the perfect spies.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ynesthesia


OMG; thanks so much for linking 'this'; True, Pre-Cognition, is one of my
Favorite Topics and Special Interests; And 'to Do List Things'; And True,
Perhaps 'Seeing' Capitalized Flowing Words With No Reason as Colors
of Emotional Notes of 'Hearing' Writing Songs as Free Verse Poetry as
i Create a 'Certain Flavor of Synesthesia' too; the Folks in the Science
Poetry World Can't Understand the Secret of How i do it and the
Secret is Just Like Nike Says; i don't think about it'; i JusT DO IT
It is all Intuition in Flow Like 'Flo Jo', J Lo; And All Their 'Friends'
And on Top of this, the Other Thing and
That; There is Research that suggests
That Showing Folks 'Porn Pictured Cards' to
Remove Them From the Confines of Neo-Cortical
Control of the 'Mechanical Cognition Study Environment'
Brings Greater Correlation of Pre-Cognition, indeed of 'Reading
The Minds' of those Remotely Viewing the Pictures (Non-Porn) on Cards
Once Removed from More Restricting Neo-Cortical Control this indeed may
Be the limiting
Factor where
As soon
as a Person
'Thinks' about
What they are doing,
Pre-Cognition Melts away;
i find that 'Synchronicity' is similar
too; The More one Flows out of Neo-Cortical
Control; the More Life Becomes Creativity 'MaGiC'
As ArT HeART SPiRiT SoUL Rules What Science
in Mechanical
Cognition
Ways
literally
has no idea
that even exists;
Soul Blind Indeed;
Spirit Blind Indeed;
And Sure, Overall
HeART Blind too As
Social Empathic Cognition
Comes from the Same General
Metaphor of the 'other' 'Right Hemisphere'
Continent oF all Our Existence as Subconscious
Mind Surfaces from the Deep Recesses of Now How
We may Be Separated as we Become more the Tools
We Create per Science Than the Nature We Are as
Chaos Magic Cosmos Order In Balance and F No,
this is not the Purview of Trump 'Weak Psychopaths'
or Putin 'Strong Psychopaths' Either as it's True What
Trump Wishes Most of all F Yes, is to be a Strong Psychopath
Not
the
Obviously
Weak and
Ignorant
Psychopath He is...
Sad Little Boy Man
Sad Little Boy Man
Sad Some of the Followers;
Similar Sad Little Boy Men
As Just Metaphor of Course
As this is at the Level of Human Soul or NOT;
Anyway, Thanks 'Alex_2x4', You Are Surely Not
'Boarding' to me
as Just
Another
Brick
in A Wall..;)


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aghogday
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31 Jul 2020, 9:03 am

Romofan wrote:
Are there Aspies that aren't particularly nice or rule bound? Silicon Valley sure seems to have turned some up. And I suspect that some chess Grandmasters have a dash of Autism in their natures. Bobby Fisher (who was obsessed with politics, btw) comes to mind.

Hans Asperger's original batch of tykes contained some spiteful bad eggs. Didn't Asperger originally label them "autistic psychopaths?"

All of this makes me think of young Adolf H, shambling around Vienna with only his vicious special interests keeping him going...


As Previously Noted; Asperger's Is Subsumed
Under Autism Spectrum Disorder; And since there
is No 'Blood Test' Or Other 'Biological Test' to assess all
Cases; It is assessed by Behavioral Deficits; in other Words,
As Far as the Nature of the Individual; You've met one Autistic
Person; You've just met another Human with a collage of specific
Behavioral Deficits; Where the Rest of the Venn Diagram of their Being
Subsuming the Smaller Venn Diagram of Behavioral Deficits may indeed be
As Diverse as the Stars in
the Sky;
or my
iMAGiNaTioN
That is 'Larger
Than all the Stars
in the Skies' or even
'iNFiNiTY' as Science
Has No Tool to Measure
it or Subconscious mind;
or Even Conscious Mind for 'Science' to See;

For You 'See'; Science Only Observes and Measures;

Science doesn't Really See What We 'See' as Humans.

Science Understands the Human Mind
As Much as a Tick Understands What the
Dog Is Thinking Giving the Tick Life Giving Blood;

It's Like 'God'; People think they can 'tell God What to do';
And those same People don't even understand Poetry; Autism
Exists in A Book; God Exists in a Book; in Other Words they are just labels
for
what
is beyond
measure and the same...

The Essence of What Is....

Us as We go no further than
i and me and You and Are
As Them too; All that
Really Separates
Autistic
From
Artistic
is "U'" And "R"..:)


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Whale_Tuune
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31 Jul 2020, 11:33 am

Ahahaha, let's not dx politicians please.

And no, I think he's just a psychopath.


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aghogday
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31 Jul 2020, 1:18 pm

One Reason, Arm-Chairing Diagnosis Doesn't Work
Is A Person Will Check-off Just about the Whole
List of identifying characteristics
of a 'Socio-Path'; With Strong
Pro Social Emotions And
Yes, Selfless Altruistic
Empathy, Remaining;
And One Will End up
Crossing A 'Hero' off
'the List' of what one
Comes to Believe is Good or Evil;
We All Have Potential to Do so-called
'Good or Evil'; What We Do With that
Potential in Environmental Struggle
Makes all the difference; nah, no
one would ever identify me as
Autistic; With What i am
Able to do now;
but i don't
go by Labels
or Limitations
i Travel by Human Potential...

One of the Greatest Ills of Humankind
Is A Greater Propensity than ever now in
Need to Feed and Water the Muscle of Human
Empathy and Pro-Social Emotions over the Entire
Course of a Lifetime; Including Cognitive Empathy;
Affective Empathy/Sympathy; and Compassion as these
Are Human Muscles that will be Built up as Real Soul Within
To Give And Share Freely over the Course of an Entire Lifetime Greater;
Beneficial, as All Human Success at core is Based on Altruistic Human Cooperation.

What Trump And Putin Have in
Common Are Zero Levels of
Empathy that is probably
A Most Dangerous
Human Ill
That we
are currently
challenged with
OVERALL, in this World;
People who 'care'; Will not ever
Say F You and Not Wear A Mask',
Insisting their Freedom is more
important than Your Life in Inconvenience;
Just the Fact that Donald J. Trump is President
Is evidence of the Illness of this Country; One
Doesn't Hire a Leader without Empathy unless
One Does Not Know what a Leader Means, in
Valuing Life
In Just
How
Worthless
It Will Become
With No Altruistic
Socially Cooperative
Love For Others; This is
What Trump And Putin are
Missing Most; Trump Just has
one of the smallest Little Man
Syndrome Diseases of Low Male Self-Esteem
i for one have ever seen; and i've come across many indeed...
Meh; Putin is a bit vertically challenged; but at least he doesn't;
Cry Now when he doesn't get Demanded Attention showing all his weakness
to the World; With Trump Having No Idea how Naked Trump is indeed that way.

"Sociopath:
- Low impulse control
- High novelty-seeking needs (desire to experience new things, high need for arousal)
- Shows no remorse for their actions (lack of conscience, no experienced guilt)
- Inability or unwillingness to see past own needs in order to understand how another feels (lack of exhibited empathy)
- Detached emotionally from situations, personal relationships
- Willing to break rules, defy authority
- Always acts in the interest of himself, in whatever fashion ultimately serves him best (selfish, self-protective)
- Extremely fragile or unstable ego, or self-identity
- Extreme emotional sensitivity

X-Altruist (Hero)
- Low impulse control
- High novelty-seeking needs (desire to experience new things, high need for arousal)
- Little remorse for their actions (while they may feel guilt over causing harm, they would still do the heroic act again "in a heartbeat")
- Inability to see past the needs of others and experience/understand their pain (very high exhibited empathy)
- Able to emotionally detach from situations temporarily when necessary, such as during a crisis; engages in Flexible Detachment
- Willingness to break rules and defy authority (will redefine what the rule should be)
- Acts in the best interest of others, or to serve the common good, because it is "the right thing to do" (self-less, puts self in frequent danger during acts of heroism)
- Very resilient ego, or able to repair quickly after damage or threats to identity (Ego Resilience)
- Extreme emotional sensitivity

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/gu ... -villains/


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blooiejagwa
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31 Jul 2020, 3:35 pm

Romofan wrote:
Are there Aspies that aren't particularly nice or rule bound? Silicon Valley sure seems to have turned some up. And I suspect that some chess Grandmasters have a dash of Autism in their natures. Bobby Fisher (who was obsessed with politics, btw) comes to mind.

Hans Asperger's original batch of tykes contained some spiteful bad eggs. Didn't Asperger originally label them "autistic psychopaths?"

All of this makes me think of young Adolf H, shambling around Vienna with only his vicious special interests keeping him going...



It's not about niceness or meanness (lol). Putin when u see him interacting it's that he is running the show and himself- in every way.

Unless someone actually has no idea what Aspergers looks like I doubt they would think he displays it


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Romofan
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31 Jul 2020, 3:54 pm

Brenda Connors, an expert in movement-pattern analysis at the US Naval War College, and her colleagues in the Office of Net Assessment based her conclusions on analysis of his movements.

In addition, Dr. Stephen Porges, a University of North Carolina psychiatry professor noted his "defensive behaviors in large social settings."

I am not claiming that Putin is anything other than a ruthless world leader, but the Aspie suggestion does come from some people who do this stuff for a living :) .


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blooiejagwa
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02 Aug 2020, 4:54 am

Romofan wrote:
Brenda Connors, an expert in movement-pattern analysis at the US Naval War College, and her colleagues in the Office of Net Assessment based her conclusions on analysis of his movements.

In addition, Dr. Stephen Porges, a University of North Carolina psychiatry professor noted his "defensive behaviors in large social settings."

I am not claiming that Putin is anything other than a ruthless world leader, but the Aspie suggestion does come from some people who do this stuff for a living :) .


People can be defensive if they know what's coming and the way their country is regarded etc the larger social setting wd be harder to control to your advantage very different from a sociopath's ideal

very vague and stupid reason she gave


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Whale_Tuune
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02 Aug 2020, 11:01 am

I mean, yeah... Is he defensive in social settings? He's a despot and his country is one of the most controversial nations in the world. (That has been through and is continuously going through a lot...)

Might that be why he acts nervous and defensive?

Who is getting paid to dx politicians and why are they doing it?


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02 Aug 2020, 11:12 am

Sigh

While I never claimed that Putin was on the Spectrum, I do find the dismissal of two professional opinions silly. Especially since none of us have read---or even have access---to the reports, video footage analyzed, precise conclusions drawn....

Take this statement:

Unless someone actually has no idea what Aspergers looks like I doubt they would think he displays it

Does its author really believe that a professor of psychiatry writing on the subject could be so poorly informed?

well, I don't.


Although I have actually read two biographies of Vlad (Gessen's: well-written but too biased, and some hack Kindle psychobiography), I would never make a solid claim one way or another. As another poster observed, so much of what we think we really know about leaders is propaganda.

Even our own leaders.

Have a Super Sunday :D


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02 Aug 2020, 11:27 am

Academics have been prone to stupid behavior before.

https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/goldwater-rule


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03 Aug 2020, 12:12 pm

It's Worth Noting that the DSM IV, was the Standard in Diagnosing
Autism/Asperger's/ PDD Not Otherwise Specified, When the Old Study was done;
With A Much Looser 'Definition' of the Condition of Autism, then; Additionally, With a Clerical
Error In The Diagnostic Criteria, before that was corrected in a Revised Edition of the 1994 DSM IV.

It's all A Moot Point Now; Anyway, as the Previous 'Labeling' of the Disorder with Criteria no longer applies;

However, Per the Specific Case of Dr. Stephen Porges, assessing Putin, by Movement Behavior alone;
He's Backed off the claim about Asperger's, Per the Quote Below; And as of the DSM IV, 'A Form Of Autism'
Might Be defined As almost Any Pervasive Development Disorder (PDD) alone; as "PDD Not Otherwise Specified"
was an indeed, a Diagnosis then.

"The 2008 report cites Dr. Stephen Porges, who is now a University of North Carolina psychiatry professor, as concluding that "Putin carries a form of autism." However, Porges said Wednesday he had never seen the finished report and "would back off saying he has Asperger's.""

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... /22855927/


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03 Aug 2020, 12:24 pm

However, Porges said Wednesday he had never seen the finished report and "would back off saying he has Asperger's.


I am perfectly ok with that. I hope everybody is having a good Monday!


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03 Aug 2020, 12:28 pm

Romofan wrote:
However, Porges said Wednesday he had never seen the finished report and "would back off saying he has Asperger's.


I am perfectly ok with that. I hope everybody is having a good Monday!



Wish u a good Monday too!


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03 Aug 2020, 12:30 pm

Whale_Tuune wrote:
Academics have been prone to stupid behavior before.

https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/goldwater-rule


Of course. :nerdy:

Academics differ which means in a case like this they cd very well be wrong. 2nd they are using points that could very well be used to prove psychopathy or sociopathy but since they want to make a POINT they would prefer to stick to the ones that fit their thesis and ignore the ones that do not putting it down to 'masking' no doubt (how very scientific). Esp if, as pointed out above, one is being paid for it


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Last edited by blooiejagwa on 03 Aug 2020, 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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03 Aug 2020, 12:31 pm

In all seriousness, I know I can safely say that _ANYONE_ who have been doing well in military service, cannot have anything close to anything related to Autism Spectrum Disorder.

While military service is very rule-bound and traditional minded or whatever they say, it does require great social skills.

Anyone with ASD who's serving in the military, will be victims of bullies.

Putin seems to have done very well in military service. That's evidence enough he cannot have ASD.

Most people assume that ASD is mainly about lack of empathy. But many people - especially Neurotypicals - lack empathy. You can't use lack of empathy to diagnose anything at all.