It's almost illegal to have conservative opinions in theWest

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KT67
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07 Aug 2020, 1:33 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
KT67 wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
KT67 wrote:
No it really isn't.
Disagreement and disapproval isn't the same thing as illegality.


I said almost illegal. As in that it is effectively shut down because of social pressure, if not laws made to criminalize it.


Well it was almost illegal not to be racist/homophobic in the village I used to work in then.

If you don't like the social circle you're mixing in online, change it. If you don't like the circle you're forced to live in offline, maybe time to consider moving to another town etc? I moved here cos it was more liberal. I'd rather live somewhere where saying 'Enoch Powell was right' would get you socially disapproved of than somewhere where coming out gay/trans would.

You can always change where or even if you go online. That is often not true IRL. Often the only realistic options are bad and not as bad. Trying harder improves the chanches for an improved outcome, it does not guarantee it.


Yes but it's accidental left wing lol.

My problems were offline. Severe social conservatism. Far right with a smile (to the right person, of course) is still far right.


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ASPartOfMe
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07 Aug 2020, 1:44 pm

ComteRenoir wrote:
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In social and cultural matters on the other hand, it has been the case for at least the last 15-20 years (certainly in the UK) that social liberalism (and its increasingly illiberal offsprings identity politics and 'political correctness') have been taking root amongst the political classes, the media, and now in the business world. Socially conservative opinions have been marginalized, and the very expression of them has become so difficult (verging on illegal in some cases) that I think it's becoming necessary to question whether we still live in a fully democratic society.

This is depressing. I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s, a time when it was possible to hold (and express) a far more diverse range of opinions. The ironic thing is that one of the clarion calls of those who have managed to roll back such diversity is the word 'diversity' itself.


What you call "identity politics" is nothing more than a matter of necessity. People of color, gay people, trans people, disabled people, whoever you want, DO have a different experience to more privileged groups, and acknowledging it as such is necessary for improving people's lives. And "political correctness"? What are you talking about? Sorry you can't openly say slurs I guess.

The reason why so-called "socially conservative views" are marginalized is because few can deny any longer that they're bigoted and harmful. Campaigning against LGBT rights, demonizing immigrants, hand-waving away racism as anything besides racism, are undeniably harmful. That is what "socially conservative" views are. Funny how you and the op are only talking about them in the abstract. I'm not going to entertain bigoted ideas out of politeness.

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Black is white. Truth is falsehood. 2+2=5.


Maybe you should find another justification for your reactionary ideology than a book written by a socialist who fought with anarchists in Spain.

A lot of people are not complaining about not be be allowed to say n****r in public. What we are bitching about is the automatic assumption of racism and that racism should not be the only factor when judging things. Saying “All lives matter” is not automatically racist, sometimes it means the person interprets language literally, saying “colored people” sometimes means the person is out of touch with current usage and thinking. And all “socially conservative views” are not about racism. Of course racists hide behind these expressions and views. So what one does by trying and succeeding in canceling them is to help the bigots define what these terms mean.


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07 Aug 2020, 2:28 pm

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A lot of people are not complaining about not be be allowed to say n****r in public. What we are bitching about is the automatic assumption of racism and that racism should not be the only factor when judging things. Saying “All lives matter” is not automatically racist, sometimes it means the person interprets language literally, saying “colored people” sometimes means the person is out of touch with current usage and thinking. And all “socially conservative views” are not about racism. Of course racists hide behind these expressions and views. So what one does by trying and succeeding in canceling them is to help the bigots define what these terms mean.


I was admittedly being hyperbolic, because political correctness usually just boils down to "be considerate to minorities". Which isn't censorship, it's just basic decency/functioning in society.

If it was divorced of all context, "all lives matter" would be a perfectly fine thing to say. However, it didn't exist until the phrase "black lives matter" came about, as an explicit deflection of the movement. "Black Lives Matter? Actually, All Lives Matter". That's why people are criticized for saying it. It is not a neutral statement.

Black Lives Matter does not imply that ONLY black lives matter. It implies that black lives in America have often been treated as though they DIDN'T matter, so we should work to ensure they are treated as well as other lives, which also matter. So, "all lives matter" is an unnecessary catchphrase. It's like if your friend said that they're having an asthma attack, and you went, "hey, everyone's ability to breathe matters".

The OP and the person I replied to were vague and didn't say which "socially conservative beliefs" they were talking about. The beliefs that I see conservatives usually getting "cancelled" for tend to lean towards racism, xenophobia, anti-LGBT, that sorta thing. If they're not talking about that, then they should make it clear what exactly they think they're not allowed to say.



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07 Aug 2020, 2:50 pm

DH a cryptofascist ? I've heard it all now :lmao: this place sure has changed.

@DH you're power level is showing :lol:


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ComteRenoir
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07 Aug 2020, 3:40 pm

Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
DH a cryptofascist ? I've heard it all now :lmao: this place sure has changed.

@DH you're power level is showing :lol:


B R U H

No one called DH a cryptofascist. No one. He said something that people disagreed with, and then people disagreed. That's it. You're just doing the same self-victimization as the op.

(for the record I don't think DH is any kind of fascist. I think he holds beliefs that are very common, but misguided)



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07 Aug 2020, 4:01 pm

I must have misplaced my Encyclopædia-Britannica-Oxford-Cambridge-Merriam-Webster Authoritative List Of Conservative Opinions™ somewhere...

... does anyone have a spare copy?



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07 Aug 2020, 4:04 pm

Fnord wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
It's Almost Illegal To Have Conservative Opinions In The West ... American and European civilization is doomed.
You say this like it's a bad thing.

Western civilization was founded on the Conservative principles of slavery, subjugation of women, and conquest of native peoples by genocide.

It should be doomed.

Except that's not true at all.



KT67
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07 Aug 2020, 4:18 pm

Fnord wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
It's Almost Illegal To Have Conservative Opinions In The West ... American and European civilization is doomed.
You say this like it's a bad thing.

Western civilization was founded on the Conservative principles of slavery, subjugation of women, and conquest of native peoples by genocide.

It should be doomed.


Exactly and if we're honest a lot of societies were formed similarly. We should be evolving as humanity & becoming more tolerant of natural differences such as sexuality, gender, sex, disability, ethnicity etc. And more allowing of freedoms which don't harm others/less judgemental.

It's very NT type thinking to want everyone to be the same when it comes to harmless behaviours like how you dress, how you love, how you work etc. As long as nobody is harming anyone else or hating ppl for things they can't help.


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07 Aug 2020, 4:20 pm

Your opinions are LEGAL, having a persecution-complex attitude about others views on your opinions has nothing to do with others repressing them. There is no law saying we have to tiptoe around your opinions as if they're facts.

We have this little thing known as separation of church & state. Deal with it.


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07 Aug 2020, 4:24 pm

There is a difference between "liberals" who would seek to criminalize your thoughts & liberals who do not let you shove said thoughts down their throats. We had this thread weekly for every single righty on here. You're not a boogeyman for being conservative, but that doesn't give you any new privileges.


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07 Aug 2020, 4:41 pm

Bataar wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
It's Almost Illegal To Have Conservative Opinions In The West ... American and European civilization is doomed.
You say this like it's a bad thing.  Western civilization was founded on the Conservative principles of slavery, subjugation of women, and conquest of native peoples by genocide.  It should be doomed.
Except that's not true at all.
Which part?

• America was founded on slavery, which was not (supposedly) abolished until 1865 ... or maybe 1965.
• America was founded on subjugation of women, which was not abolished until 1920 ... or maybe 1973.
• America was founded on conquest of native peoples by genocide ... ask any Native American.

Take the Red Pill, and remember that all I am offering is the truth -- nothing more.


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07 Aug 2020, 4:45 pm

ComteRenoir wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
DH a cryptofascist ? I've heard it all now :lmao: this place sure has changed.

@DH you're power level is showing :lol:



for the record I don't think DH is any kind of fascist.


Well I apologise for my "self-victimization"? and I'm glad you've cleared that up :D


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07 Aug 2020, 4:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
It's Almost Illegal To Have Conservative Opinions In The West ... American and European civilization is doomed.
You say this like it's a bad thing.  Western civilization was founded on the Conservative principles of slavery, subjugation of women, and conquest of native peoples by genocide.  It should be doomed.
Except that's not true at all.
Which part?

• America was founded on slavery, which was not (supposedly) abolished until 1865 ... or maybe 1965.
• America was founded on subjugation of women, which was not abolished until 1920 ... or maybe 1973.
• America was founded on conquest of native peoples by genocide ... ask any Native American.

Take the Red Pill, and remember that all I am offering is the truth -- nothing more.


Perhaps they're referring to the ancient greco-romans.....oh nope wait all those things still apply.



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07 Aug 2020, 4:53 pm

Fnord wrote:


Take the Red Pill, and remember that all I am offering is the truth -- nothing more.


I just realized what you were doing in your avatar

Image


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Fnord
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07 Aug 2020, 4:55 pm

Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Take the Red Pill, and remember that all I am offering is the truth -- nothing more.
I just realized what you were doing in your avatar...

Image
Handsome bloke!  Rather looks like that fellow from the Geico ads, eh?


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Oh_no_its_Ferris
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07 Aug 2020, 5:01 pm

Fnord wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Take the Red Pill, and remember that all I am offering is the truth -- nothing more.
I just realized what you were doing in your avatar...

Image
Handsome bloke!  Rather looks like that fellow from the Geico ads, eh?


Definitely , or maybe Gex from Enter The Gecko ( PS1) expertly voiced by Leslie Phillips :heart:


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