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Should civil authorities enforce religious doctrine on morality?
Yes, definitely. 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
Yes, mostly. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Maybe yes, maybe no. 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
No, mostly. 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
No, definitely. 74%  74%  [ 26 ]
Total votes : 35

Fnord
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25 Aug 2020, 8:29 pm

There is talk, here and elsewhere, about making certain 'immoral' activities illegal.  The reasons vary, and most of them seem to reflect individual religious beliefs.  So, rather than get involved in yet another polarized discussion, I'll just post this poll and ask the generalized question:

"Should civil authorities enforce religious doctrine on morality?"

Please explain your selection, and please keep the conversation civil -- attack the ideas (if you must) and not the people expressing them.  If people start attacking each other, then I will ask the moderators to lock this thread.

You may select only one option in the poll and, as always, you may change your selection at any time.


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Overthinker2000
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25 Aug 2020, 8:44 pm

Fnord wrote:
So, rather than get involved in yet another polarized discussion,


Indeed. :wink:



FleaOfTheChill
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25 Aug 2020, 8:50 pm

I chose no, mostly. The only thing I can think of right now that Id find acceptable is murder being unacceptable by most religions, while leaving some wiggle room for killing. Meaning, it could be okay to kill someone in a war situation or self defense or whatever. That's not the same as murder according to some religious texts. I wouldn't get twitchy about that being enforced as a religious rule, so long as it's enforced. I'm not trying to get killed. :lol:

The rest of it, I can't think of much that I think should be enforced by civil authorities. I have a bias. Or two. Or more. One, I'm an atheist so I have no religion I feel should be pushed on others and I think confuses me when people do that. I have no problem with people who have a religion, I mean, if it works for you rock on with it. Just don't try to make me conform to it. Another bias, I have been on the receiving end of people who have used religion to abuse me. Some people can and will use anything to justify abuse and sadly religion is on either of those things. Having religion enforced is an idea that sets off bells and whistles in my head. Another bias, I am non binary. There's a few religions out there that dont take kindly to my kind. I don't want to be, say imprisioned for being who I am. I know I'm focusing on the negatives here, but like I said, I have bias and my experiences with religious people have for the most part been negative ones. So yeah, not a fan of that idea.



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25 Aug 2020, 8:58 pm

I would have voted "Hell no!".


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25 Aug 2020, 9:43 pm

I have not heard of anywhere in the western world of there being talk of imposing religious doctrine on a secular state.

Of coarse there are those who want to ban abortion and pornography but that's been a running issue for some.


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AngelRho
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25 Aug 2020, 9:50 pm

They absolutely should. Biblical laws are consistent with the way our world was created and are therefore objective. They exist in nature, are measurable, and are tangible. You don’t even have to read the Bible or even believe God exists to infer these laws.



DeathEmperor413
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25 Aug 2020, 10:22 pm

I really don't want to see something like heretics being burned at the stake get normalized again!


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AngelRho
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25 Aug 2020, 10:26 pm

DeathEmperor413 wrote:
I really don't want to see something like heretics being burned at the stake get normalized again!


Where in the gospels did Jesus command His disciples to murder people who disagree or teach a false gospel?



DeathEmperor413
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25 Aug 2020, 10:30 pm

AngelRho wrote:
DeathEmperor413 wrote:
I really don't want to see something like heretics being burned at the stake get normalized again!


Where in the gospels did Jesus command His disciples to murder people who disagree or teach a false gospel?


I'm not arguing theology with you, I'm pointing out exactly what Christian Theocracies were notorious for doing.


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Bradleigh
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25 Aug 2020, 10:38 pm

AngelRho wrote:
They absolutely should. Biblical laws are consistent with the way our world was created and are therefore objective. They exist in nature, are measurable, and are tangible. You don’t even have to read the Bible or even believe God exists to infer these laws.


Question, should eating shellfish be illegal? How about wearing clothes of two different threads?

Not to mention all of the contradictions between religions or within themselves.


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AngelRho
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25 Aug 2020, 10:41 pm

DeathEmperor413 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
DeathEmperor413 wrote:
I really don't want to see something like heretics being burned at the stake get normalized again!


Where in the gospels did Jesus command His disciples to murder people who disagree or teach a false gospel?


I'm not arguing theology with you, I'm pointing out exactly what Christian Theocracies were notorious for doing.

But theology is relevant in a theocracy. If a society claims to be Christian, it must obey the words in red. If it doesn’t, how can it claim to be a Christian theocracy?

I don’t see the OP as suggesting a theocracy strictly speaking, just co-opting religious rules for the purpose of law and order. Biblical law, even Torah, is remarkably reasonable, fair, just, AND merciful. Lex talionis literally rules!



DeathEmperor413
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25 Aug 2020, 10:50 pm

So iow I deserve the death penalty for laying with another man because according to the Leviticus 20:13 that makes me an 'abomination'? I fail to see the mercy in imposing that.


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zacb
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25 Aug 2020, 11:52 pm

My only concern is it seems like modern secular regimes seem to create religious laws unto themselves, like don't be intolerant. To an an extent "nonreligion" can be just as much of an orthodoxy as others, so we should be careful (even in as much I am an atheist).



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26 Aug 2020, 2:36 am

FleaOfTheChill wrote:
I chose no, mostly. The only thing I can think of right now that Id find acceptable is murder being unacceptable by most religions, while leaving some wiggle room for killing.

Murder might be unacceptable, but the Abrahamic religions in particular are quite good at finding justification for killing someone for adultery, idolatry, heresy, witchcraft, apostasy, homosexuality, not being a virgin when married etc.



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26 Aug 2020, 3:05 am

Quote:
The Fascist State, as a higher and more powerful expression of personality, is a force, but a spiritual one. It sums up all the manifestations of the moral and intellectual life of man. Its functions cannot therefore be limited to those of enforcing order and keeping the peace, as the liberal doctrine had it. It is no mere mechanical device for defining the sphere within which the individual may duly exercise his supposed rights. The Fascist State is an inwardly accepted standard and rule of conduct, a discipline of the whole person; it permeates the will no less than the intellect. It stands for a principle which becomes the central motive of man as a member of civilized society, sinking deep down into his personality; it dwells in the heart of the man of action and of the thinker, of the artist and of the man of science: soul of the soul.

-Benito Mussolini, the Doctrine of Fascism


Yeah, I'll take a hard "no" on that one.


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kraftiekortie
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26 Aug 2020, 7:01 am

What is this, the Puritan Age?

Strict separation of church and state is most of the basis for the United States of America.

Saying this, the vast majority of extremely immoral acts are already illegal.

Just because I like to go out without my shirt sometimes—shouldn’t expose me to police attention.