Arguments Against Women's Right to Vote.

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Fnord
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31 Aug 2020, 9:54 am

emotrtkey wrote:

I didn't say women weren't capable of being great leaders. I simply referred to the Christian teaching that women aren't allowed and will never be allowed to be priests and bishops in the Christian church (the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church) because God assigned that role to men (according to Christian teaching) just like he assigned the role of motherhood to women...

No ... it was the male priests who made the priesthood a Men-Only institution. Remember, the first people to proclaim the resurrected Christ were women, not men. Some men seem to have never gotten over this fact.

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Tim_Tex
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31 Aug 2020, 9:55 am

If anything, fornication should be mandatory--for Christians and Muslims.

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magz
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31 Aug 2020, 10:03 am

Tim_Tex wrote:

If anything, fornication should be mandatory--for Christians and Muslims.

That's an interesting concept!
Asexuals included?

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IsabellaLinton
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31 Aug 2020, 10:30 am

emotrtkey wrote:

I was trying to explain why it's not sexist to only have male popes. Christians believe God assigned women the role of being mothers and gave men the role of leading the church. That's why women can't be bishops and priests and men can't have children. Different roles doesn't mean that one gender is superior to the other.

At my church both vicars are women. One is married and one is widowed, but both have children.
The bishop is a woman too. :wink:

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Fnord
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31 Aug 2020, 10:40 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

emotrtkey wrote:

At my church both vicars are women. One is married and one is widowed, but both have children. The bishop is a woman too. :wink:

Just as a side-note, do those Vicars habitually preach on "Sin, Hellfire, and Brimstone", or do they habitually preach on "Love, Forgiveness, and Compassion"?

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IsabellaLinton
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31 Aug 2020, 10:42 am

Love, forgiveness, compassion, equality, charity, community service, goodwill, intellect, faith, and hope.

I wouldn't attend otherwise.

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Fnord
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31 Aug 2020, 10:50 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

Love, forgiveness, compassion, equality, charity, community service, goodwill, intellect, faith, and hope. I wouldn't attend otherwise.

No wonder the gun-toting, Bible-thumping, gay-bashing, hate-mongering Patriarchy objects to women preachers!

Them peace-and-love types is stealin' all the wimmin and puttin' ideas in they heads!

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emotrtkey
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31 Aug 2020, 10:52 am

Fnord wrote:

emotrtkey wrote:

Jesus chose 12 men to be his disciples and promised that the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth. Those men and their successors were never guided to select a woman as a priest or bishop. The teaching of the Christian Church has been clear from the beginning that only men belong in those roles.

I'm aware that a woman saw Christ resurrected first but it has nothing to do with whether women can be priests. Christians allow women to lead groups of women and children as well as share the gospel with others. They're just not allowed to have leadership roles in the church. Also, Christians honor Mary, a woman, above all of God's creation. No man or woman has been blessed more than Mary. I think that proves Christians aren't sexist or misogynist and gave great respect for women. I hope you can see that.

emotrtkey
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31 Aug 2020, 10:54 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

emotrtkey wrote:

At my church both vicars are women. One is married and one is widowed, but both have children.
The bishop is a woman too. :wink:

I was only referring to Christianity. Other religions are free to have women lead their organizations.

IsabellaLinton
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31 Aug 2020, 10:57 am

My church performs gay marriages, and there are a few gay couples in the congregation.

Hate, bigotry, bashing and thumping don't happen. It's a traditional Anglican church but the ideology is inclusive.

Again -- I wouldn't attend otherwise.

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Fnord
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31 Aug 2020, 11:00 am

emotrtkey wrote:

Fnord wrote:

emotrtkey wrote:

So, by omission, and not declaration (and certainly not by the cultural environment of 1st-century Palestine), it was decided that women were second-class citizens unfit for leadership roles ... ?

No wonder the Patriarchy still believe in slavery, subjugation of women, and conquest by genocide.

emotrtkey wrote:

... Christians honor Mary, a woman, above all of God's creation. No man or woman has been blessed more than Mary. I think that proves Christians aren't sexist or misogynist and gave great respect for women. I hope you can see that.

No ... only Roman Catholics and Marianite cults worship Mary and her images (both graven and painted), while the rest of Christendom merely respects her as the vessel by which Jesus was brought into this world.

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Fnord
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31 Aug 2020, 11:04 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

My church performs gay marriages, and there are a few gay couples in the congregation. Hate, bigotry, bashing and thumping don't happen. It's a traditional Anglican church but the ideology is inclusive. Again -- I wouldn't attend otherwise.

I have read the history of the Anglican Church, and while it has the usual "bumps and blemishes" of any Reformist church, it has a lot going for it, not the least of which is the current leader -- HRM Queen Elizabeth II (a woman).

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magz
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31 Aug 2020, 11:05 am

Fnord wrote:

emotrtkey wrote:

You're omitting the Eastern Orthodox.
Also, I'm not comfortable with calling any person "a vessel", and especially with equating motherhood with being it.

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Fnord
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31 Aug 2020, 11:13 am

magz wrote:

Fnord wrote:

emotrtkey wrote:

You're omitting the Eastern Orthodox. Also, I'm not comfortable with calling any person "a vessel".

You're correct, of course. "Vessel" is a term that the RCC uses. My church just uses the term "Mother of Jesus", and leaves it at that -- no Mary-worship goes on.

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magz
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31 Aug 2020, 11:15 am

"Mother of Jesus" seems safe.

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emotrtkey
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31 Aug 2020, 11:23 am

Fnord wrote:

So, by omission, and not declaration (and certainly not by the cultural environment of 1st-century Palestine), it was decided that women were second-class citizens unfit for leadership roles ... ?

I believe Jesus told his disciples that leadership roles in the church belonged to men. God made men unable to give birth to children. Does that mean men are second-class citizens unfit for reproducing?

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No wonder the Patriarchy still believe in slavery, subjugation of women, and conquest by genocide.

Not sure what patriarchy you're referring to but the Christian Church has never supported slavery, subjugation of women, or conquest by genocide.

Fnord wrote:

Catholics who are part of the Roman rite do NOT worship Mary or Her images. That's Protestant propaganda. Christians venerate Mary and honor Her since we believe She's the Mother of God which shows how much Christians respect women.

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