[ POLL ] Which National Religion?

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Dont know what Fnord is on about, but...

God can do anything. He supposedly snapped his finger and made the universe come into existence in six days in 4000 BC. And he supposedly made Mary get preggers without human sperm.

So if God were to make a special person like a Christ and do so in the womb of a human virgin, he could just snap his fingers and conjure up a set of custom made 23 chromosomes (to match Mary's 23 chromosomes- in leu of a human father's 23 chromosomes), or he could just make up all 46 chromosmes on the spot without using Mary's chromosomes at al (just use her body but not her genes). Just make up a new person "out of whole cloth" on the spot. But still using human DNA- even if it isnt naturally human generated human DNA.

You are in disagreement with yourself because all of your other posts are to liberal politically and socially for someone who takes the New Testament literally.That's why I don't take you seriously your other life views are not consistent with a Christian fundamentalist world view.

You discredit your own arguments.

If anything is possible through God then the sky could be purple couldn't it,what you are talking about is blind faith not theological debate.

I dont follow your logic.

The sky could be purple. But it isnt (unless a tornado is coming). But if God wanted it to be purple at some moment then it would be so (like the sun standing still for a day that day described in the Bible).

Look...virgin birth is usually impossible. But if God decided to make a person via virgin birth one day- the virgin birth wouldnt change the fact that his special made person would still have to have a human genome of DNA to function as as a person. And there is nothing stopping him from conjuring up a custom made genome for a human individual.

That sounds like Jesus as a created being.

The JW's, Arians and Christadelphians are viewed as heratics by almost all Christianity.

Jesus can't be divine and have human parents.So if Jesus had human parents then the JW's are the true religion,which is doubtful being as no one takes them seriously.

There is Jesus, and there is the Christ. Two different entities.

Christ is the son of god. And Jesus is this regular dude who became inhabited by the Christ.

So combined they are both divine and mortal.

So DNA wise he may not be related to Mary or Joseph. But he came into the world through Mary's body. But he would still have somekind of human DNA.

I dont know what the Arians have to do with it. According to Arianism Christ was a mortal human prophet. Like Moses. So its an non issue. The JWs believe that JC was the Angel Gabrielle.

Not exactly blind faith. We don’t universally agree on Young Earth/Old Earth. Personally, all I can say is I wasn’t there when the earth was created, nor am I old enough to say whether God snapped His fingers in 4000 BC or if we all really are just talking monkeys. I can’t claim any of those things with absolute certainty because none of those times/places coincide with my experience.

But it doesn’t coincide ANY any now-living person’s experience, either. If you believe it’s relevant, you have to choose: Either a monkey woke up one day and began speaking, hence the first human, or it never happened and human beings are a special creation. There is no evidence to go on either way, except we know that humans and monkeys do exist. (Yes, I know, TECHNICALLY they were supposedly apes). You can not argue ape-to-man evolution or Goddidit without assuming one or the other, or not at least assuming one or more axioms that would lead you to one conclusion or the other. That’s why evidence-based arguments never work, whether it’s a Christian sharing the Gospel or an atheist, evolutionary biologist trying to explain why it couldn’t possibly have been that way.

So you end up with Christians, some who say 6 days were 6 consecutive days, and some who say, meh, it probably took a little longer than that. Now you have the problem that two groups are arguing something they no idea about when the point of Christianity is salvation, not how old the earth is. So the YEC’s are telling the OEC’s that they don’t actually believe the Bible and they’re all going to hell. That’s when it does become a theological debate, and sadly it’s not even a very useful one.

As I said before, I wasn’t there, and I don’t find it relevant. I lean more towards the OEC view. First, the first two verses of Genesis seem to indicate a gap between creation and the first day of creation. Anything could have happened between God creating the heavens and the earth and the “first day.” Why was the earth void? Why was it covered in water? Had there already been a cycle of creation and destruction? Later God promises to never “again” destroy the earth in water. That could be read as indicating a pattern that God decided to break. Second, there is no need to assume that the days of creation were consecutive. Only the order is important. Days are marked by light and dark cycles rather than sun cycles, and the sun and moon were made to appear later on. What was the source of light in the beginning? Could have been God’s glory, could have been the pre-existing sun obscured by clouds or dust particles in the air from the previous cataclysm. Had this been the result of a meteor or comet strike, it could have taken a considerable length of time for the atmosphere to clear, during which the gradual appearance of life would have occurred. The specific days mentioned need not be consecutive days, but are rather bookends to the act of creation.

Those are simply my ideas on how it MIGHT have happened. It is irrelevant next to the Gospel. The main takeaway from the opening passages of Genesis is not to establish the age of the earth. It carries a quite simple message: God created the earth, He owns it, He can dispose of it how He pleases for any or no reason—even destroying the whole planet and all life in it just because He feels like it, as many times and in as many different ways as suits Him. To read anything more into it than that isn’t all that theologically useful, though it might spark some fun discussions.

Christ is an English variant of the Greek "christos" which meant anointed.Paul called Jesus "Christos' because Paul spoke Greek and he believed Jesus was the Messiah which is also an English variant of "Mashiach" which is Hebrew for anointed.So Paul called Jesus Christos because he believed him to be the Messiah or Mashiach.So Christ means Messiah not God or divine

I don't know about JW's thinking Jesus was an angel,as far as I know Arians,Chistadelphians and JW's believe Jesus to be the Jewish Messiah,a prophet but not a divine being,not part of a Holy Trinity like other Christian sects.

Christ just means anointed and Jesus is a variant of Joshua,Jesus Christ means Joshua the anointed,the Messianic Jews say in Hebrew Yeshua ha Mashiach.Same thing as Jesus Christ or Joshua the anointed.

A very honest post,you say what you really believe instead of just strawman arguments just to be argumentative.

A monkey didnt just wake up talking one day. Human-like primates evolved over eons, and these primates had protolinquistic behavior that also evolved over eons.

But I agree that Genesis is not meant to be taken literally. It was not meant to be taken as a "true story". It was meant to be taken as a story that contains truth. Truths about the human condition.

But if they could somehow find Jesus's DNA on, say,a nail on the true cross, I am sure that it would turn out that (a)he had DNA (whether was the son of god or not, or had a virgin birth or not). And (b) that this DNA wouldnt tell us much one way or the other about his divinity. He probably had garden variety Semitic DNA. God could have just concocted a genome for him (so he would be the right kind of human of the right race for his geographic home), or he could have been concived and born the normal way- he would have had similar DNA either way.

A First Hint That Human
Dudes Wrote 'That Bible'
Is Referring to God
As He And The
Hypocrisy
Continues
Today Now
For Woman
Speaks too
Without Any
Need For 'His' Breath Now;
Anyway, 'This Whole Thread'
Shows There are As Many Views
On What God And Religion is
As One Herding Cats
Which Just
Does
Not Work;
Humans Have Different
Views Per that Metaphor
As Many Eyes as Many Views
of God And Religion And All Poetry
too as All Words are Only Metaphor
for Essence of What is...

Good Luck on
Herding CatS; heHe

Into A National Anything Without Division...

On the '8th Day', God Invented A Zillion Different
Religions and Words As Metaphors to Never Get Bored in Human...

So Far the Evidence Is Clear God Is

Far From Bored in Human at Least...

*Motions to 'Eve' for some more Popcorn...

What i Really Love Now Is all These Folks From
These so-called Religions Set in Stone Expressing
Their Unique Views online with no Fear of Retribution
Anonymously

True

Never
Is Within
Controlled No
Matter How Many
Layers of Lies may Cover the Inside out...
Like a 'Traditional Marriage' And Who the
Woman is Dreaming of On Her Wedding Night Bought...

Anyway; i suppose Immaculate Conception was a Story
to Survive For the Contribution of Joseph's 'Friend' Down The 'Dirt Road'...
But Of Course; if it wasn't a Myth That Mary Would Have Been Stoned FOR REAL THEN;

Happy Fairytale
With Happy Ending
And Beginning Again...

iF it's True, An Amazing
Story to Keep Mary Breathing and Baby too;
Meh; Wouldn't Be The First Time A Child
Whose Father Left Early Became a Hero';
Common Pattern Indeed Seed Spread Wide and Far For Real...

If God Is Truly Alpha Thru Omega Doesn't Frigging Matter Whose Sperm
it Was For All Sperm Is Included in Alpha Thru Omega, Particularly
with the Same General DNA...

Anyway; This is How Many
Socially Cooperative Humans
in Some So-Called Primitive Tribes See
it A Community Sperm Bank As Contributions for
the Good
(God) of All...

They Get It;
They Really Get
The Essence of
God in and
As All

Yes;
Alpha Thru
Omega; Proves
God (ALL) Does
Exist in all Existence
This Way as Science Already
Shows Now We Are Seeds and
Flowers Resurrected From Stars
That Die and Come Back as Us too...

Star Birth
Is Just
Amazing
Lineage for
Real as Science
Shows Resurrected
From Super Nova
Crucible Fire
of Star
Death
We Are Star
Seeds and Flowers True too...

i am Much More Impressed With
Reality Now than some Old Crude
Half-Butt LieS iN A Book Written By Dudes;
Like The Ones i See At the Hardees Breakfast Club
Who Wanted to Be Worshipped and Fear Criticism too...

That Human Archetype of the Villain as Overall Tradition
Continues side-by-side With True Heroes of Love and Empathy too...

We Already Have a Traditional Old Testament Nationalist Religion

God Yes; Oh God No; It's Really True

'Father Trump' And the Same 'Old Minions'...

God Some Things
Human Just never
Seem to Change
Tribalism, Ignorance ('Idiocy'),
And True 'Greek Citizenry too'..

Incorrect. Wikipedia has a good article on the No true Scotsman fallacy that I recommend reading before continuing this discussion. The counterexample from the article is especially relevant:

Person A: "No pacifist stabs people to death."
Person B: "I know one who stabbed a couple of people to death."
Person A: "That guy was not a true pacifist."

In this case, the "No true Scotsman" analogy does not hold. The definition of pacifism includes opposition to violence and abstinence of its use in all situations. Stabbing people and pacifism are in a logical conflict. The logical conclusion is that the stabber was not really a pacifist (although they might have claimed to have been).

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

The No true Scotsman fallacy involves saying someone isn't a Scotsman because of irrelevant criteria (such as putting sugar in porridge which isn't necessary to be a Scotsman) or saying someone isn't a true Christian because he doesn't wear nice clothes (since it's not part of being a Christian).




I can post historical records from the early church fathers (reputable Christians) showing the Catholic church existed since the first century. The idea that Constantine founded the Catholic church is Protestant propaganda that is easily refuted. Constantine was a Roman emperor who legalized Christianity and helped convene the Council of Nicea that defined the Christian doctrine of the Trinity to counteract the Arians who distorted the church's teaching by denying that Jesus is God. The only Protestants I know who believe in Arianism are Jehovah's Witnesses, a sect that wasn't founded until the 19th century.



Constantine wasn't involved in any of those things. You've been misled by propaganda from enemies of the church. None of the Ten Commandments prohibits statues and they have nothing to do with paganism. Christians have always believed that Mary is the Mother of God. It's written in scripture that was used since the first century.



I've studied early Christianity extensively from primary sources which is essential since enemies of Christianity have twisted and distorted early Christian history to attack the Christian church and turn people away from God. There are so many errors in your post that I don't have the time to refute all of them especially since I've learned from experience that most people don't care about the truth and aren't willing to be corrected. If truth matters to you, you can learn about the history of Christianity from primary sources at https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/ or http://earlychristianwritings.com/

You truly believe what you say in a honest way,a true believer,I can't criticize that.Unlike most who argue just to argue,my rule is I don't argue theology with a real believer,so best wishes to you.

So far, only 3 out of the 25 people who answered the poll believe that Christianity should be the national religion.

That's only 12% (24% favor Atheism); yet most of the discussion has been about Christianity.

That's a lot of talk for so little representation.

A lot of people hold grudges against Christians. It couldn't be because of the way they have conquered much of the world through colonization and forced their beliefs on others, could it?

Do you mean through forced conversions, violent enslavement, conquest by genocide, the banning of books, the persecution of scientists, and the burning of people accused of witchcraft?

Hmm ... could be ...