[ POLL ] Which "Christian" religion ... ?

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14 Sep 2020, 2:37 pm

There is only one Christian religion. It was founded 2,000 years ago by Jesus Christ.

As far as your list, I'll have to go with other - the Catholic Church. It's not a Roman church. It's the universal church. There are Catholic churches in all but one or two countries. There's a Roman rite but there are plenty of non-Roman rites. It's insulting to exclude them or refer to them as Romans.

kraftiekortie
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14 Sep 2020, 2:39 pm

They call it Roman because their “headquarters” was in Rome until about the 1860s. Rome still surrounds Vatican City.

Yes....of course they had Popes in Avignon at one time.

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14 Sep 2020, 2:50 pm

Fnord wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

Basically its "the imagined history of the ancient Hebrew people". Their covenant with their main deity is the central theme of the history.

"Imagined"? Well, maybe ... the Creation account ... the Flood ... and a few bits and pieces of Divine intervention, perhaps ... but there was a city called Jericho, and there is archaeological evidence of a great fire within its walls ... and there was a structure called "Solomon's Temple" which stood for many years ... and there is a plain called Megiddo and a city called Jerusalem, as well.

Solomon's mines, however, have yet to be located, even though places as far away as the Philippines lay claim to that honor.

To appease the masses, I would say that in order to fill in some gaps between unrelated historical events and give some meaning to their occurrences, a superstitious yet spiritual people (not unlike the conspiracy theorists of today) determined that G^D (who works in mysterious ways, right?) has a plan that ties it all together.

Accuracy? Citation? Cross-published in a peer-review journal? Why should they? When you are sole arbiter of the depth and breadth of The Law, no one shall dare question your authority, or else!

So you disagree, but you agree. Whatever dude. :lol:

I was quoting Joseph Campbell when I said "the imagined history...". So beat up on him, or praise him, when you make up your mind whether you agree or disagree! :lol:

But Campbell's phrase sums it up well how to view it. They imagined, and mythologized for all kinds of reasons ranging from simple dumb gaps in knowledge, to propaganda reasons, to aesthetic reasons, to theological reasons, and everything in between. But as with Greek mythology there are probably elements of actual factual history contained within it as well. Like all primitive peoples they werent into history, but into mythology, until in later stages in their ...history.

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14 Sep 2020, 2:55 pm

Parts of the Bible are an historical chronicle. The intellectual rigor was that of someone like Herodotus. A great historian who used plenty of poetic license.

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14 Sep 2020, 3:00 pm

vermontsavant wrote:

Paulos was a Greek name meaning small or humble ...
The Hebrew name Shaul or also Saul meant question or to ask

What about the following scenario. These two names had those two completely different meanings, like you described, but then when Saul wanted to rename himself to appear more familiar to his future Greek followers, he simply looked for a name that would appear similar. So its not too much of a coincidence. Since both languages have many different names, one would statistically expect at least some name to look similar -- so Saul located that name out of the list of names that Greek language had to offer.

vermontsavant wrote:

the Bible does say Paul was a handicapped person.

Where?

The only thing I remember is Paul had thorn in his flesh. But that won't amount to being handicapped since it won't interfere with his abilities to perform various physical tasks.

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14 Sep 2020, 3:07 pm

Fnord wrote:

QFT wrote:

Fnord wrote:

The Jews did not kill Jesus; the Romans did.

Well, "was it Jews or was it Romans" is an old and tired debate. But "hey, its not Pharesees its Sadducees" is a totally new idea on the table.

By the way, here is another new idea. Romans are Italian...

No, Italians are descended from Romans ... and Etruscans ... and Greeks ... and Sicilians ... and just about everyone else around the Mediterranean Sea. There were no Italians during the Roman Empire.

Greeks are separate from Romans since they both were present at the New Testament times.

As far as Italians I haven't really studied their history but, for some reason, I always knew Italy is associated with Rome. Romans weren't "called" Italians, but they are their ancestors.

kraftiekortie
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14 Sep 2020, 3:17 pm

There was no unified Italy until about 1870.

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14 Sep 2020, 3:22 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

There was no unified Italy until about 1870.

The fact that there was no unified Italy doesn't stop me from saying that they were ancestors of today's Italians.

While *most* of the countries that are today were absent back then, I can still ask a question "which of today's countries would genetics of Romans be the closest to". The answer is "to Italy". Which is why I can call them Italians.

kraftiekortie
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14 Sep 2020, 3:25 pm

Like Fnord said, there were other ethnic groups other than the Latins who were the ancestors of the Italians.

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14 Sep 2020, 3:27 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

There was no unified Italy until about 1870.

1861 C.E., to be exact. Imperial Rome fell about 1385 years earlier, in 476 C.E. Italy re-formed as a Republic in 1946. Thus, there is no overlap between Imperial Rome and the Republic of Italy.

Some Italians may trace their ancestry back to the Roman Empire, but Imperial Romans were not Italians.

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14 Sep 2020, 3:28 pm

QFT wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

Paulos was a Greek name meaning small or humble ...
The Hebrew name Shaul or also Saul meant question or to ask

vermontsavant wrote:

the Bible does say Paul was a handicapped person.

Where?

The only thing I remember is Paul had thorn in his flesh. But that won't amount to being handicapped since it won't interfere with his abilities to perform various physical tasks.

I think the thorn in his flesh was a metaphor for physical pain he suffered.If one literally had a thorn in there flesh they would simply pull it out and the pain would gone in 10 minutes.Sources have also believed Paul along with the prophet Mohamed had epilepsy.The thorn in his flesh thing was where I took the handicapped adjective from.

As far as the name you could very well be right,I once knew a Cambodian named Vicheka but he went by Chucky.

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14 Sep 2020, 3:29 pm

QFT wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

There was no unified Italy until about 1870.

The fact that there was no unified Italy doesn't stop me from saying that they were ancestors of today's Italians...

You could say that the Sleestak were all Ratsnestistanis, but that would make no sense, either.

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14 Sep 2020, 3:31 pm

vermontsavant wrote:

Sadly, these "sources" rely on speculation, and not hard fact -- their speculations are not even Biblical.

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14 Sep 2020, 3:36 pm

Fnord wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

Sadly, these "sources" rely on speculation, and not hard fact -- their speculations are not even Biblical.

Norman Cantor one of the countries leading historian's from Columbia University had the epilepsy theory about Paul and Mohamed,it may not be true,but it's still information from one of the worlds leading historians.

Yes world leading historians can be wrong,that is true.

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14 Sep 2020, 3:37 pm

Fnord wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

There was no unified Italy until about 1870.

I know perfectly well Italy didn't exist back then (which is also true regarding Germany, France, and most other European countries). HOWEVER since the genes that were around back then were all carried over into the countries that exist today, one can attempt to put those ancient countries 2000 years ago into today's map, and ask "who were French, who were Germans, who were Italians, etc". The answer will be "something" since the ancestors of today's French, Germans and Italians were "somewhere".

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14 Sep 2020, 3:52 pm

Fnord wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

There was no unified Italy until about 1870.

Imperial Rome (well by that point a rump state) persisted until 1453 C.E. when it finally fell to the Ottomans. Orthodox Christians from the former Roman Empire under the Ottomans continued to refer to themselves as 'Roman' until the Roman/Greek independence movement when they opted for the Greek identity so they could receive Western European support (who also claimed the Roman identity). :wink:

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