Kyle Rittenhouse included in heroes list in school

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cyberdad
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23 Sep 2020, 9:20 pm

Brictoria wrote:
On a side note, it appears that I was mistaken in another thread where someone claimed he "emptied his magazine" into the crowd. At the time I stated he only fired 7 shots (less than 1/4 of the magazine) - It seems he may have instead fired 8-9 rounds in total (between 1/4 and 1/3 of the magazine) - still far below the claim of "emptying the magazine.


This also dovetails with Wolfram's assertion that Kyle was "justifiably" responding to a shooter firing at him.

I found not a shred of evidence to back up that claim.

I think with time Lin Wood may have to settle for manslaughter angle based on some type of diminished responsibility as I think Rittenhouse an inexperienced 17yr old parading around with a loaded AR-15 was jumpy and panicked when he heard a gun discharge firing randomly into the crowd likely hitting his first victim. Based on the Jeramiah witness statement I posted he did it from a sniper position.

At that point the kenosha militia who were with him likely told each other "the kid has gone rogue he is on his own" and "we don't want to be around when the police come" so they left him to fend for himself. From there the crowd chased him because they knew he was the shooter.



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23 Sep 2020, 11:17 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
On a side note, it appears that I was mistaken in another thread where someone claimed he "emptied his magazine" into the crowd. At the time I stated he only fired 7 shots (less than 1/4 of the magazine) - It seems he may have instead fired 8-9 rounds in total (between 1/4 and 1/3 of the magazine) - still far below the claim of "emptying the magazine.


This also dovetails with Wolfram's assertion that Kyle was "justifiably" responding to a shooter firing at him.

I found not a shred of evidence to back up that claim.

I think with time Lin Wood may have to settle for manslaughter angle based on some type of diminished responsibility as I think Rittenhouse an inexperienced 17yr old parading around with a loaded AR-15 was jumpy and panicked when he heard a gun discharge firing randomly into the crowd likely hitting his first victim. Based on the Jeramiah witness statement I posted he did it from a sniper position.

At that point the kenosha militia who were with him likely told each other "the kid has gone rogue he is on his own" and "we don't want to be around when the police come" so they left him to fend for himself. From there the crowd chased him because they knew he was the shooter.


Not sure on the "settle" opinion...

Taking into account the details included in the "probable cause" component of the list of charges we have:
Rosenbaum started approaching him unprompted
Kyle tried to run away.
Rosenbaum threw something at Kyle.
Gunshot behind/near Kyle.
Kyle turned and Rosenbaum dived for gun, at which point Kyle fired 4 shots.
Kyle goes back (not sure why: to perform first aid, possibly?)
A group start chasing him.
He runs towards police.
People who were not witnesses to what earlier occurred (relying on others calling out) attack him.
He falls and someone tries to kick his head (2 shots fired, both miss).
Another person attacks him with a skateboard and tries to wrestle his gun from him (1 shot fired).
A third approaches with drawn handgun, retreats when rifle pointed his way, then moves in again once rifle aim moved (1 shot fired).
A fourth person standing with arms raised. Kyle stands and runs onward to police.

In none of those instances where he fires is he the aggressor, a fact which would certainly assist with a self defence claim.

Interestingly, in the video from his defence team, between the first shooting and when he is attacked by the group he says to someone running nearby and filming with their mobile phone(?) that he is going to the police. There is also people in the background calling out for others to attack Kyle.



cyberdad
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24 Sep 2020, 12:12 am

There are gaps in this narrative that are not on video that require witness testimony

1, Firstly between the time Rosenbaum was taunting the Kenosha militia and the time he approached Rittenhouse, that's the part that seems to be covered by the Jermiah witness statement that Rittenhouse was aiming his gun in a threatening manner and he purportedly threatened witnesses in a car with his weapon who were trying to leave. its also the time the Kenopsha Militia decide to leave as Rittenhouse seemed to be going rogue.

The video footage starts from Rosenbaum getting shot.


2. There is the issue of the shot fired. A video video surfaced (see above) shows who fired the first shot. While watching the video you will notice two people walking together. The one on the left, which is taller than the one on the right, is the one who pulls a handgun and fires into the air. This is the first shot fired and it is the shot that is heard just before Rittenhouse opens fire on Rosenbaum.
1 Shot Fired By Person Walking Behind Both Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse.
4 Shots Fired By Rittenhouse (according to reports he fired at least 9 rounds before scurrying to the police for protection)


What's interesting is this supports my assertion that Rittenhouse panicked and killed Rosenbaum. What's interesting is how Rittenhouse moved from a sniper position threatening innocent bystanders (according to Jeremiah) to being suddenly in front of Rosenbaum. My guess is that he (Rittenhouse) moved off his sniper position and moved to threaten Rosenbaum who was at this time filmed taunting the Kenosha milita.

What happens next is obvious - Rittenhouse starts getting aggressive - the milita decide to retreat as Rittenhouse was going to do something dangerous and they didn't want to be around. The rest of course is then caught on video.



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24 Sep 2020, 12:25 am

Fnord wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
It's amazing how often people repeat simple lies such as this... Doesn't really encourage reading further.
How is that a lie?  That is what all the reports coming out about it said... so I am basing it off that.  Have not heard anything different, as of yet.
I have heard nothing different, either; at least, not from any reliable source.


The fact that the "probable cause" section of the charging documents specifically include the line "The defendant can clearly be seen holding a long gun, which was later recovered by law enforcement" would strengthen the probability of the claim "he carried it across state lines" to have it at the riot being a lie, given that police had the weapon when preparing the charges, yet included no charges (or mention) related to it having been taken across state lines, nor mention the possibility of this having occurred in either the charges or the "probable cause".
Source: https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnew ... e9.pdf.pdf (middle of 2nd paragraph, page 3)

Similarly, multiple news agencies have reported that it was given to him to use for protection by a friend who lived in\around the town.

You may need to read more widely, and choose reliable sources, as opposed to your current ones which appear somewhat lacking in reliability...



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24 Sep 2020, 12:35 am

cyberdad wrote:
There are gaps in this narrative that are not on video that require witness testimony

1, Firstly between the time Rosenbaum was taunting the Kenosha militia and the time he approached Rittenhouse, that's the part that seems to be covered by the Jermiah witness statement that Rittenhouse was aiming his gun in a threatening manner and he purportedly threatened witnesses in a car with his weapon who were trying to leave. its also the time the Kenopsha Militia decide to leave as Rittenhouse seemed to be going rogue.

The video footage starts from Rosenbaum getting shot.


2. There is the issue of the shot fired. A video video surfaced (see above) shows who fired the first shot. While watching the video you will notice two people walking together. The one on the left, which is taller than the one on the right, is the one who pulls a handgun and fires into the air. This is the first shot fired and it is the shot that is heard just before Rittenhouse opens fire on Rosenbaum.
1 Shot Fired By Person Walking Behind Both Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse.
4 Shots Fired By Rittenhouse (according to reports he fired at least 9 rounds before scurrying to the police for protection)


What's interesting is this supports my assertion that Rittenhouse panicked and killed Rosenbaum. What's interesting is how Rittenhouse moved from a sniper position threatening innocent bystanders (according to Jeremiah) to being suddenly in front of Rosenbaum. My guess is that he (Rittenhouse) moved off his sniper position and moved to threaten Rosenbaum who was at this time filmed taunting the Kenosha milita.

What happens next is obvious - Rittenhouse starts getting aggressive - the milita decide to retreat as Rittenhouse was going to do something dangerous and they didn't want to be around. The rest of course is then caught on video.


From around 2:33-3:40 of the following give an indication as to why Mr Rosenbaum was pursuing Kyle:


Video is by the defence team, and is put together to help with the defence, but if you ignore the narration (I'm certain you will), it does include some additional footage from the night, and other footage appears to be clearer than previously available.

Again, I don't recall seeing any footage of him being in a "sniper position" (and there were LOTS of phones\cameras around recording), nor anything outside your unfounded assertions to indicate he was "going rogue"...Any chance you can share your sources, or is this just your preferred narative?



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24 Sep 2020, 12:55 am

It amazes me that carefully gathered facts mean so little to so many, that so many unquestionably accept whatever hooey Trump offers up, that Christians are donating thousands to a cold blooded killer of two innocent men, and that so many USA citizens can still believe that there could never be a civil war whipped up by Trump's shenanigans.

Objectivity and facts seem no longer to matter to some in the USA. What matters is what they want to believe, and that's whatever Trump tells them to in many though not all cases. Agendas matter more than facts.

Defending the indefensible with wilful disregard for fact-checking leads to confusion, division and antipathy. That's what Trump wants; divided populations are so much easier to control for leaders such as him. Trump's acolytes are serving him well.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ttenhouse-



cyberdad
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24 Sep 2020, 1:27 am

Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
There are gaps in this narrative that are not on video that require witness testimony

1, Firstly between the time Rosenbaum was taunting the Kenosha militia and the time he approached Rittenhouse, that's the part that seems to be covered by the Jermiah witness statement that Rittenhouse was aiming his gun in a threatening manner and he purportedly threatened witnesses in a car with his weapon who were trying to leave. its also the time the Kenopsha Militia decide to leave as Rittenhouse seemed to be going rogue.

The video footage starts from Rosenbaum getting shot.


2. There is the issue of the shot fired. A video video surfaced (see above) shows who fired the first shot. While watching the video you will notice two people walking together. The one on the left, which is taller than the one on the right, is the one who pulls a handgun and fires into the air. This is the first shot fired and it is the shot that is heard just before Rittenhouse opens fire on Rosenbaum.
1 Shot Fired By Person Walking Behind Both Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse.
4 Shots Fired By Rittenhouse (according to reports he fired at least 9 rounds before scurrying to the police for protection)


What's interesting is this supports my assertion that Rittenhouse panicked and killed Rosenbaum. What's interesting is how Rittenhouse moved from a sniper position threatening innocent bystanders (according to Jeremiah) to being suddenly in front of Rosenbaum. My guess is that he (Rittenhouse) moved off his sniper position and moved to threaten Rosenbaum who was at this time filmed taunting the Kenosha milita.

What happens next is obvious - Rittenhouse starts getting aggressive - the milita decide to retreat as Rittenhouse was going to do something dangerous and they didn't want to be around. The rest of course is then caught on video.


From around 2:33-3:40 of the following give an indication as to why Mr Rosenbaum was pursuing Kyle:


Video is by the defence team, and is put together to help with the defence, but if you ignore the narration (I'm certain you will), it does include some additional footage from the night, and other footage appears to be clearer than previously available.

Again, I don't recall seeing any footage of him being in a "sniper position" (and there were LOTS of phones\cameras around recording), nor anything outside your unfounded assertions to indicate he was "going rogue"...Any chance you can share your sources, or is this just your preferred narative?


There is something a little strange there because Rittenhouse was claimed to be seen running with a fire extinguisher but instead of putting out fires he was suddenly there facing Rosenbaum with a gun.

According to McGinnis Rittenhouse was running away from Rosenbaum when he heard the gunshot - as I correctly pointed out Rittenhouse instead of running away turned around and shot Rosenbaum who was unarmed.

Hence I go back to my original point that Rittenhouse's defence only course of action is that he panicked due his being a 17 yr old with no experience of guns in a situation he was not trained for and he get's charged with negligent manslaughter. I think there's no wriggling out of that.

What I am more interested in his activities prior and the Jeremiah witness statement that suggest he (Rittenhouse) was pointing his weapon in a threatening manner.

The sniper allegation is in the Jeremiah witness statement I posted (now twice). If you are too lazy to read it that's not my problem.



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24 Sep 2020, 1:38 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
There are gaps in this narrative that are not on video that require witness testimony

1, Firstly between the time Rosenbaum was taunting the Kenosha militia and the time he approached Rittenhouse, that's the part that seems to be covered by the Jermiah witness statement that Rittenhouse was aiming his gun in a threatening manner and he purportedly threatened witnesses in a car with his weapon who were trying to leave. its also the time the Kenopsha Militia decide to leave as Rittenhouse seemed to be going rogue.

The video footage starts from Rosenbaum getting shot.


2. There is the issue of the shot fired. A video video surfaced (see above) shows who fired the first shot. While watching the video you will notice two people walking together. The one on the left, which is taller than the one on the right, is the one who pulls a handgun and fires into the air. This is the first shot fired and it is the shot that is heard just before Rittenhouse opens fire on Rosenbaum.
1 Shot Fired By Person Walking Behind Both Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse.
4 Shots Fired By Rittenhouse (according to reports he fired at least 9 rounds before scurrying to the police for protection)


What's interesting is this supports my assertion that Rittenhouse panicked and killed Rosenbaum. What's interesting is how Rittenhouse moved from a sniper position threatening innocent bystanders (according to Jeremiah) to being suddenly in front of Rosenbaum. My guess is that he (Rittenhouse) moved off his sniper position and moved to threaten Rosenbaum who was at this time filmed taunting the Kenosha milita.

What happens next is obvious - Rittenhouse starts getting aggressive - the milita decide to retreat as Rittenhouse was going to do something dangerous and they didn't want to be around. The rest of course is then caught on video.


From around 2:33-3:40 of the following give an indication as to why Mr Rosenbaum was pursuing Kyle:


Video is by the defence team, and is put together to help with the defence, but if you ignore the narration (I'm certain you will), it does include some additional footage from the night, and other footage appears to be clearer than previously available.

Again, I don't recall seeing any footage of him being in a "sniper position" (and there were LOTS of phones\cameras around recording), nor anything outside your unfounded assertions to indicate he was "going rogue"...Any chance you can share your sources, or is this just your preferred narative?


There is something a little strange there because Rittenhouse was claimed to be seen running with a fire extinguisher but instead of putting out fires he was suddenly there facing Rosenbaum with a gun.

According to McGinnis Rittenhouse was running away from Rosenbaum when he heard the gunshot - as I correctly pointed out Rittenhouse instead of running away turned around and shot Rosenbaum who was unarmed.

Hence I go back to my original point that Rittenhouse's defence only course of action is that he panicked due his being a 17 yr old with no experience of guns in a situation he was not trained for and he get's charged with negligent manslaughter. I think there's no wriggling out of that.

What I am more interested in his activities prior and the Jeremiah witness statement that suggest he (Rittenhouse) was pointing his weapon in a threatening manner.

The sniper allegation is in the Jeremiah witness statement I posted (now twice). If you are too lazy to read it that's not my problem.


I have seen the "claim" (not a statement) which you linked to...I also haven't seen any indication that the police believe it (otherwise no doubt there would be additional charges - brandishing, for example), nor anything which would coroborate it. Being that there were many people there, including some in similar attire, it is entirely possible the person in a "sniper position" was a different person.



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24 Sep 2020, 1:42 am

B19 wrote:
It amazes me that carefully gathered facts mean so little to so many, that so many unquestionably accept whatever hooey Trump offers up, that Christians are donating thousands to a cold blooded killer of two innocent men, and that so many USA citizens can still believe that there could never be a civil war whipped up by Trump's shenanigans.

Objectivity and facts seem no longer to matter to some in the USA. What matters is what they want to believe, and that's whatever Trump tells them to in many though not all cases. Agendas matter more than facts.

Defending the indefensible with wilful disregard for fact-checking leads to confusion, division and antipathy. That's what Trump wants; divided populations are so much easier to control for leaders such as him. Trump's acolytes are serving him well.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ttenhouse-


From your linked source:
Quote:
Here's a fact: You ended up in the wrong place!
It's true! It's true!

You’ve followed a link to a page that doesn’t exist. Truth-O-Meter rating? True! Please use the navigation or search box above or try starting over from our main page.

Don’t worry, we’ve notified someone that this page is missing.


A bit hard to confirm\refute "facts" which don't exist...



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24 Sep 2020, 1:48 am

"Kyle Rittenhouse is not a hero.

Granted, many on the right are working overtime to paint him as such. “He’s a good kid,” his attorney, John Pierce, told Fox “News” last week. “He’s a patriot,” a man who declined to give his name told Politico. “He’s a hero,” a man named Alan Endries said. But he’s not.

And the concocted tale of how the 17-year-old boy came to be on the streets of Kenosha, Wisconsin, during a civil disturbance, how he shot three people, killing two, simply doesn’t pass the smell test. Who arms themselves with an AR-15-style rifle, leaves home and drives to another state to defend a business belonging to somebody else, a stranger to whom he has no connection? We’re asked to believe that Mr. Rittenhouse and other members of a right-wing street gang styling itself a “militia” gathered in Kenosha from a sense of public spiritedness? Please. For a bigger load of equine ordure, you’d have to visit a stable. No, their purpose was clear as an angel’s conscience. They took to the streets looking for trouble. And Mr. Rittenhouse found it."

-- The Baltimore Sun, September 8th, 2020



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24 Sep 2020, 1:56 am

B19 wrote:
It amazes me that carefully gathered facts mean so little to so many, that so many unquestionably accept whatever hooey Trump offers up, that Christians are donating thousands to a cold blooded killer of two innocent men, and that so many USA citizens can still believe that there could never be a civil war whipped up by Trump's shenanigans.

Objectivity and facts seem no longer to matter to some in the USA. What matters is what they want to believe, and that's whatever Trump tells them to in many though not all cases. Agendas matter more than facts.

Defending the indefensible with wilful disregard for fact-checking leads to confusion, division and antipathy. That's what Trump wants; divided populations are so much easier to control for leaders such as him. Trump's acolytes are serving him well.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ttenhouse-


So called Christians were also raising money for the killers of the guy shot when jogging while black.


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24 Sep 2020, 2:04 am

B19 wrote:
"Kyle Rittenhouse is not a hero.

Granted, many on the right are working overtime to paint him as such. “He’s a good kid,” his attorney, John Pierce, told Fox “News” last week. “He’s a patriot,” a man who declined to give his name told Politico. “He’s a hero,” a man named Alan Endries said. But he’s not.

And the concocted tale of how the 17-year-old boy came to be on the streets of Kenosha, Wisconsin, during a civil disturbance, how he shot three people, killing two, simply doesn’t pass the smell test. Who arms themselves with an AR-15-style rifle, leaves home and drives to another state to defend a business belonging to somebody else, a stranger to whom he has no connection? We’re asked to believe that Mr. Rittenhouse and other members of a right-wing street gang styling itself a “militia” gathered in Kenosha from a sense of public spiritedness? Please. For a bigger load of equine ordure, you’d have to visit a stable. No, their purpose was clear as an angel’s conscience. They took to the streets looking for trouble. And Mr. Rittenhouse found it."

-- The Baltimore Sun, September 8th, 2020


Interesting opinion piece...a bit light on facts, however, although the strong opinions being presented will compensate for that with "low information" people who are unwilling to do research or listen to "inconvenient" facts which do not support their opinion\preferred narrative..



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24 Sep 2020, 2:06 am

Brictoria wrote:
I have seen the "claim" (not a statement) which you linked to...I also haven't seen any indication that the police believe it (otherwise no doubt there would be additional charges - brandishing, for example), nor anything which would coroborate it. Being that there were many people there, including some in similar attire, it is entirely possible the person in a "sniper position" was a different person.


The witness is fairly reliable in making two observations that i) the sniper was young (teen) and ii) had his cap backwards.

It will be interesting to see if this will sway the court proceedings in any way?



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24 Sep 2020, 2:11 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
B19 wrote:
It amazes me that carefully gathered facts mean so little to so many, that so many unquestionably accept whatever hooey Trump offers up, that Christians are donating thousands to a cold blooded killer of two innocent men, and that so many USA citizens can still believe that there could never be a civil war whipped up by Trump's shenanigans.

Objectivity and facts seem no longer to matter to some in the USA. What matters is what they want to believe, and that's whatever Trump tells them to in many though not all cases. Agendas matter more than facts.

Defending the indefensible with wilful disregard for fact-checking leads to confusion, division and antipathy. That's what Trump wants; divided populations are so much easier to control for leaders such as him. Trump's acolytes are serving him well.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ttenhouse-


So called Christians were also raising money for the killers of the guy shot when jogging while black.


Yes the local constabulary weren't exactly moving at the speed of light as the white man involved was a former cop. Without the media intervention the McMichael brothers might still be walking the streets. Not surprising re: the concerned christians, anything involving a black American automatically gets no support from large segments of the republicans.

Like George Floyd....they ignore the cop kneeling on the Floyd's neck but enthusiastically point out that Floyd has a criminal past. As with the victims of Kyle Rittenhouse - seen a couple of WP members use this line here, because they have a criminal past then it somehow justifies their getting shot.



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24 Sep 2020, 2:12 am

B19 wrote:
"Kyle Rittenhouse is not a hero.

Granted, many on the right are working overtime to paint him as such. “He’s a good kid,” his attorney, John Pierce, told Fox “News” last week. “He’s a patriot,” a man who declined to give his name told Politico. “He’s a hero,” a man named Alan Endries said. But he’s not.

And the concocted tale of how the 17-year-old boy came to be on the streets of Kenosha, Wisconsin, during a civil disturbance, how he shot three people, killing two, simply doesn’t pass the smell test. Who arms themselves with an AR-15-style rifle, leaves home and drives to another state to defend a business belonging to somebody else, a stranger to whom he has no connection? We’re asked to believe that Mr. Rittenhouse and other members of a right-wing street gang styling itself a “militia” gathered in Kenosha from a sense of public spiritedness? Please. For a bigger load of equine ordure, you’d have to visit a stable. No, their purpose was clear as an angel’s conscience. They took to the streets looking for trouble. And Mr. Rittenhouse found it."

-- The Baltimore Sun, September 8th, 2020


They seem to think that it worked to get Nick Sandmann out of trouble so it will work for Rittenhouse.



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24 Sep 2020, 2:17 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
I have seen the "claim" (not a statement) which you linked to...I also haven't seen any indication that the police believe it (otherwise no doubt there would be additional charges - brandishing, for example), nor anything which would coroborate it. Being that there were many people there, including some in similar attire, it is entirely possible the person in a "sniper position" was a different person.


The witness is fairly reliable in making two observations that i) the sniper was young (teen) and ii) had his cap backwards.

It will be interesting to see if this will sway the court proceedings in any way?


The thing is, it takes more than a young person and cap backwards to prove it was the same person...There is no mention of where and when with any degree of specificity to allow confirmation of it being Kyle, or to refute the possibility so it is highly disingenious to claim it was him as though it has been proven...

Without something specific (location and time, for example), there is no way to prove it was him, nor disprove it being him, and so the claims made have little weight. Had they, for instance, said they were at a specific point and give a time (with perhaps a 5 minute margin of error), THEN it may be of evidentiary value.