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kraftiekortie
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22 Nov 2020, 4:43 pm

If Trump did a good job as President, I wouldn’t have been as adamant that he not get elected.

I “separate the job from the person.”

He’s doing a horrible job in this transition period. All he has done is brag about how great a job he did when it comes to COVID.



kraftiekortie
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22 Nov 2020, 4:44 pm

We have to get rid of police brutality. I don’t care if a Democrat or the Republican is President.



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22 Nov 2020, 5:09 pm

That makes sense. You want to get rid of it and what party the President is, is not the issue. But for some reason, the BLM was all about the election rather than police brutality. Which means that they think that voting in a democratic President will make police brutality go away;

Or, that the BLM was not about black lives matter, and was just using it as a front, to indoctrinate people to vote for Biden...

Or, the democratic party saw how much the Floyd incident was effecting people and they decided to jump on the defund the police band wagon, hoping that would sucker people into more votes?



Last edited by ironpony on 22 Nov 2020, 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cberg
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22 Nov 2020, 5:10 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
We have to get rid of police brutality. I don’t care if a Democrat or the Republican is President.


Frankly that means you're not looking at any Republicans then.


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22 Nov 2020, 5:14 pm

ironpony wrote:
That makes sense. You want to get rid of it and what party the President is, is not the issue. But for some reason, the BLM was all about the election rather than police brutality. Which means that they think that voting in a democratic President will make police brutality go away;

Or, that the BLM was not about black lives matter, and was just using it as a front, to indoctrinate people to vote for Biden...

Or, the democratic party saw how much the Floyd incident was effecting people and they decided to jump on the defund the police band wagon, hoping that would sucker people into more votes?


If you've ignored every single statement from Trump's own mouth this might make sense.


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funeralxempire
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22 Nov 2020, 5:26 pm

ironpony wrote:
That makes sense. You want to get rid of it and what party the President is, is not the issue. But for some reason, the BLM was all about the election rather than police brutality. Which means that they think that voting in a democratic President will make police brutality go away;

Or, that the BLM was not about black lives matter, and was just using it as a front, to indoctrinate people to vote for Biden...

Or, the democratic party saw how much the Floyd incident was effecting people and they decided to jump on the defund the police band wagon, hoping that would sucker people into more votes?


For the most part progressive movements support the Democratic party out of the hope they at least won't be outright hostile to their causes unlike the GOP. The Democratic Party hasn't exactly behaved like they actually value progressive causes or the enthusiasm they can cause, they just want those people's votes and know that they're unlikely to support the GOP because the GOP is even worse from the perspective of those who support those causes. Basically it's good cop, bad cop.

The GOP does the same to right wing causes and their supporters.



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22 Nov 2020, 6:15 pm

Oh okay but how do the voters know that the party will hold their end of what they say they will? Now that Biden is in, what if he just forgets about the saying he will do what he can for the BLM and just focus on other things?

But even Biden does try to help out on the issue, police officers are not going to change their behavior just because Biden is President now. I just don't why people think that the behavior will change. It was said before that people tend to follow leaders as examples, but there has been police brutality cases before Trump was elected, so we know that this is not true.

Another thing is, it seems that the general consensus, at least on here, is that there is no election fraud because the accusers words do not hold water. A lot of people were talking about election fraud when Trump was elected in 2016 as well. But is it the same thing, where that one does not hold any water either, and there is no way of knowing in either?



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22 Nov 2020, 6:40 pm

ironpony wrote:
But voting in a democratic party President will not make a difference. When Obama was President there was still incidences of police brutality. When Clinton was President, there was still brutality. What makes them think cops will be on better behavior if the democratic party is President, especially when it hasn't been proven in the past?

Having a Democratic party President will not automatically solve the police brutality problem. However, Democrats are more likely to give at least lip service to the idea, which means, other factors being equal, that a sufficiently well-organized activist movement can more easily pressure Democrats into actually doing something about it as well.

Additionally, Kamela Harris is a woman of color with a past history of being a reform-minded prosecutor. Thus she understands the law-enforcement perspective, while at the same time being mindful of the need for various reforms. Hence there is reason to hope that she will have some realistic ideas on how to solve the police brutality problem. She won't be able to implement said ideas on her own, however, and it will be necessary for BLM to keep up the pressure on politicians generally.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 22 Nov 2020, 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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22 Nov 2020, 6:49 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. But why if you are for a certain President, why not just vote for him? What's the point of marching in the streets, holding up signs, and showing off and bragging about it?

They're trying to pressure Republican politicians to act on Trump's claims of election fraud, even though said claims apparently aren't sound enough to hold up in a court of law.


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22 Nov 2020, 7:28 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But voting in a democratic party President will not make a difference. When Obama was President there was still incidences of police brutality. When Clinton was President, there was still brutality. What makes them think cops will be on better behavior if the democratic party is President, especially when it hasn't been proven in the past?

Having a Democratic party President will not automatically solve the police brutality problem. However, Democrats are more likely to give at least lip service to the idea, which means, other factors being equal, that a sufficiently well-organized activist movement can more easily pressure Democrats into actually doing something about it as well.

Additionally, Kamela Harris is a woman of color with a past history of being a reform-minded prosecutor. Thus she understands the law-enforcement perspective, while at the same time being mindful of the need for various reforms. Hence there is reason to hope that she will have some realistic ideas on how to solve the police brutality problem. She won't be able to implement said ideas on her own, however, and it will be necessary for BLM to keep up the pressure on politicians generally.


Well if police are getting away with brutality, I am guessing the responsibility lies with the prosecutors, right? If a prosecutor is pro-police brutality, they are not going to care if there is a woman of color in the white house I don't think.



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22 Nov 2020, 7:30 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. But why if you are for a certain President, why not just vote for him? What's the point of marching in the streets, holding up signs, and showing off and bragging about it?

They're trying to pressure Republican politicians to act on Trump's claims of election fraud, even though said claims apparently aren't sound enough to hold up in a court of law.


Oh okay. But according to the media, there have been Trump supporters marching in the streets before the votes even began though. There was that case in Oregon, if I remember correct, where there was a violent clash between BLM members and Trump supporters. So what was the Trump supporters reasons for marching in the streets with signs before the voting?



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22 Nov 2020, 8:18 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. But according to the media, there have been Trump supporters marching in the streets before the votes even began though. There was that case in Oregon, if I remember correct, where there was a violent clash between BLM members and Trump supporters. So what was the Trump supporters reasons for marching in the streets with signs before the voting?

I'm not sure, but here's my guess:

Trump has been claiming all along that the election was going to be somehow "rigged" against him, and that there would be rampant "voter fraud." So perhaps the Trump supporters intended to put pressure on their local governments to ensure that there was no "voter fraud"?

On the other hand, in some cases, Trump supporters were engaged in outright voter intimidation / suppression. See, for example, this video and/or this article.


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Mona Pereth
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22 Nov 2020, 8:23 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well if police are getting away with brutality, I am guessing the responsibility lies with the prosecutors, right? If a prosecutor is pro-police brutality, they are not going to care if there is a woman of color in the white house I don't think.

There are a variety of changes in law and government policy that could make it less likely for police to get away with brutality. The influence of the Vice President could be very helpful (though not sufficient in itself) toward getting such laws passed.


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ironpony
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22 Nov 2020, 8:25 pm

Oh okay, what laws would those be?



ironpony
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22 Nov 2020, 8:33 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. But according to the media, there have been Trump supporters marching in the streets before the votes even began though. There was that case in Oregon, if I remember correct, where there was a violent clash between BLM members and Trump supporters. So what was the Trump supporters reasons for marching in the streets with signs before the voting?

I'm not sure, but here's my guess:

Trump has been claiming all along that the election was going to be somehow "rigged" against him, and that there would be rampant "voter fraud." So perhaps the Trump supporters intended to put pressure on their local governments to ensure that there was no "voter fraud"?

On the other hand, in some cases, Trump supporters were engaged in outright voter intimidation / suppression. See, for example, this video and/or this article.


I read the article and watched the video, but all they said was Trump had law enforcement guarding the polls. That's not voter intimidation that's just security. People can still vote however the want, if there is security and law enforcement around. Why would people think of this as intimidation?



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22 Nov 2020, 10:55 pm

Pepe wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump should just acknowledge that he won’t be President after Biden takes the Oath of Office....


I think he wants "Power of authority" to continue to implement policies, while he still can.
No coup. Just finishing off loose ends, in his view, I imagine.

horribly inhumane and unfair policies. fixed it for ya.


Not an attack, but you do have a *blind* hatred of the man. 8O

not really, but i do hate his inhumane and unfair GOP policies.