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XFilesGeek
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06 Nov 2020, 3:35 pm

2016: Trump is the legally elected president! Any talk of Russian interference is just butthurt liberals!

2020: Trump can't possibly be losing! Voter fraud! Illegal votes! Conspiracy!

It really is enough to give one whiplash. The Fanta Menace just needs to go away already.


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Mikah
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06 Nov 2020, 5:06 pm

@XFilesGeek doesn't that go both ways? Someone convinced of Russian interference is now completely closed minded to claims of interference from the other side...

---

Another interesting claim on this front:

The disparity in down ticket votes. Apologies for the viral meme repostable, "smoking gun proof" obviously to be ignored.

Image

Why are Democrat voters seemingly uncaring about the senate elections? And only in certain states...? Proof? No, but surely a strange phenomenon... By the way if anyone has any good ideas besides voter fraud, I'd love to hear them.


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06 Nov 2020, 5:25 pm

Mikah wrote:
@XFilesGeek doesn't that go both ways? Someone convinced of Russian interference is now completely closed minded to claims of interference from the other side...


Claiming another side may have been 'helped', knowingly or unknowingly, by an online misinformation scheme (possibly backed by a foreign government) to mildly influence voters, is on an entirely different level than claiming a party widely manufactured fake votes. They aren't even close to same level. Hell for all we know Republicans planted fake Democrat votes with the intention of implicating them after the election. Why leave the other sides corruption up to chance? (I don't believe that scenario, just creating a ridiculous point)

Mikah wrote:
Why are Democrat voters seemingly uncaring about the senate elections? And only in certain states...? Proof? No, but surely a strange phenomenon... By the way if anyone has any good ideas besides voter fraud, I'd love to hear them.


Swing states probably have more independents and or flippable republicans (compared to solid red country) that may have decided to continue supporting the party at the state level to maintain representation, but not Donald Trump at the national level. Speculation only.



GGPViper
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06 Nov 2020, 5:58 pm

Mikah wrote:
Another interesting claim on this front:

The disparity in down ticket votes. Apologies for the viral meme repostable, "smoking gun proof" obviously to be ignored.

Image

Why are Democrat voters seemingly uncaring about the senate elections? And only in certain states...? Proof? No, but surely a strange phenomenon... By the way if anyone has any good ideas besides voter fraud, I'd love to hear them.

They are not.

Another swing state (Iowa)

Trump: 896,500
GOP Senator: 863,856
Diff: 32.644 (3.6 %)

Biden: 757,780
DEM Senator: 753,522
Diff: 4.258 (0.05 %)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... -iowa.html

Another non-swing state (Nebraska):

Trump: 544,150
GOP Senator: 563,670
Diff: 19,520 (3.6 %)

Biden: 362,038
DEM Senator: 222,712
Diff: 139,326 (38,5 %)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ident.html

In other words, here we have the exact opposite correlation, as the Democrats apparently care more about Senate races in the swing state than in the non-swing state.


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Mikah
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06 Nov 2020, 6:07 pm

GGPViper wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Another interesting claim on this front:

The disparity in down ticket votes. Apologies for the viral meme repostable, "smoking gun proof" obviously to be ignored.

Image

Why are Democrat voters seemingly uncaring about the senate elections? And only in certain states...? Proof? No, but surely a strange phenomenon... By the way if anyone has any good ideas besides voter fraud, I'd love to hear them.

They are not.

Another swing state (Iowa)

Trump: 896,500
GOP Senator: 863,856
Diff: 32.644 (3.6 %)

Biden: 757,780
DEM Senator: 753,522
Diff: 4.258 (0.05 %)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... -iowa.html

Another non-swing state (Nebraska):

Trump: 544,150
GOP Senator: 563,670
Diff: 19,520 (3.6 %)

Biden: 362,038
DEM Senator: 222,712
Diff: 139,326 (38,5 %)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ident.html

In other words, here we have the exact opposite correlation, as the Democrats apparently care more about Senate races in the swing state than in the non-swing state.


Mmm. Can file that claim in the crap bin then. Unless of course, it's a sign of Republican fraud :hmph:


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06 Nov 2020, 6:14 pm

Not really related to the post before this:
Wisconsin Republicans caught encouraging Pennsylvania Republicans to cast fraudulent ballots after election day:
https://news.yahoo.com/wisconsin-republicans-caught-apparently-encouraging-141226986.html

Quote:
President Trump raged on Wednesday that he wants "all voting to stop." But emails obtained by The Daily Beast and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel revealed Friday that it was Republican Party officials in Wisconsin who have allegedly been urging their volunteers to call Pennsylvanians and implore them to send in late — and therefore illegal — votes. "That would be exactly what the president and his campaign are accusing Democrats of doing," one legal expert observed to The Daily Beast.

The email was sent by a group called Kenosha For Trump around 5 p.m. on Thursday. "Trump Victory urgently needs volunteers to make phone calls to Pennsylvania Trump supporters to return their absentee ballots," the email read. The scheme seemed aimed to take advantage of a ruling in the state that said absentee ballots received by 5 p.m. on Friday must be counted — so long as they were properly postmarked by Election Day.


The pot is calling the kettle black. Although I guess it's not as hypocritical if they believe their own lies about supposed democrat voter fraud.


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06 Nov 2020, 6:18 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
Not really related to the post before this:
Wisconsin Republicans caught encouraging Pennsylvania Republicans to cast fraudulent ballots after election day:
https://news.yahoo.com/wisconsin-republicans-caught-apparently-encouraging-141226986.html

Quote:
President Trump raged on Wednesday that he wants "all voting to stop." But emails obtained by The Daily Beast and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel revealed Friday that it was Republican Party officials in Wisconsin who have allegedly been urging their volunteers to call Pennsylvanians and implore them to send in late — and therefore illegal — votes. "That would be exactly what the president and his campaign are accusing Democrats of doing," one legal expert observed to The Daily Beast.

The email was sent by a group called Kenosha For Trump around 5 p.m. on Thursday. "Trump Victory urgently needs volunteers to make phone calls to Pennsylvania Trump supporters to return their absentee ballots," the email read. The scheme seemed aimed to take advantage of a ruling in the state that said absentee ballots received by 5 p.m. on Friday must be counted — so long as they were properly postmarked by Election Day.


The pot is calling the kettle black. Although I guess it's not as hypocritical if they believe their own lies about supposed democrat voter fraud.


By all means post potential Rep. fraud claims/news. It's all important. There has always been some level of fraud, but if Trump intends to fight until the very end, then it should all come out.


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06 Nov 2020, 7:01 pm

https://twitter.com/TrumpWarRoom/status ... 5251824643

Looks like "software glitches" will be the focus of the next couple of days. Some are claiming it was just attempted fraud. I would love to know what the glitches were.

Mandatory xkcd

Image


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06 Nov 2020, 9:12 pm

2016: There must have been Russian interference, Trump is Putin's puppet, collusion with the enemy is what got Trump elected.

This time around for some reason Russia doesn't seem to exist and rather the highly unpresented dragged out vote counts in the swing states is being called into question.

If it's okay for folks to believe that a huge foreign enemy conspiracy put the last president in office and required a three year investigation, then it's okay to question the current situation.

Or put another way, if you believed in the 2016 election conspiracy, you're being a hypocrite to put anyone down for thinking there's a 2020 election conspiracy.


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06 Nov 2020, 9:25 pm

Image

Another interesting graph floating in the tsunami of disinformation.


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06 Nov 2020, 9:28 pm

Anyone checking the news for the last 12 months should know that Trump is parroting the far right QAnon conspiracies.

After the Tea Party nutjobs during the Obama years spouting nonsense about Obama's birth certificate (among other things) that wasn't true
MAGA nutjobs during Trump's tenure following nutter conspiracy theories spawned from Trump's chief strategist Steve Bannon
We will now have QAnon nutjobs during Biden's tenure

America seems to allow crazy far right nutters into the mainstream of their society? the reason why this happens might explain why Trump won the 2016 election.

We know the symptoms but not addressing the disease.



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06 Nov 2020, 9:40 pm

because djt will not "don" his big boy pants and concede already, this is gonna be tied up in the courts until at least jan. 20, 2021. i fear what SCOTUS will do.



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06 Nov 2020, 9:55 pm

Tempus Fugit wrote:
...if you believed in the 2016 election conspiracy, you're being a hypocrite to put anyone down for thinking there's a 2020 election conspiracy.

Sorry, I'm too busy laughing that even with Putin's support he's somehow still managed to lose.

How much money does he owe now, I wonder?



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06 Nov 2020, 10:05 pm

Redd_Kross wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
...if you believed in the 2016 election conspiracy, you're being a hypocrite to put anyone down for thinking there's a 2020 election conspiracy.

Sorry, I'm too busy laughing that even with Putin's support he's somehow still managed to lose.

How much money does he owe now, I wonder?


How much did you see in the news about Putin's support this time around?

What about that enormous complex Russian troll farm network infiltrating the US? Where is it now?

Hmm... did it never exist in the first place?


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uncommondenominator
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06 Nov 2020, 10:15 pm

Tempus Fugit wrote:
2016: There must have been Russian interference, Trump is Putin's puppet, collusion with the enemy is what got Trump elected.

This time around for some reason Russia doesn't seem to exist and rather the highly unpresented dragged out vote counts in the swing states is being called into question.

If it's okay for folks to believe that a huge foreign enemy conspiracy put the last president in office and required a three year investigation, then it's okay to question the current situation.

Or put another way, if you believed in the 2016 election conspiracy, you're being a hypocrite to put anyone down for thinking there's a 2020 election conspiracy.


That's a lovely false equivalency you've got there. It's even got a gooey strawman filling, and a flakey ad hominem crust. These layered fallacy cakes seem to be all the rage these days. By combining multiple flavors of misdirection, untangling it becomes more akin to opening a combination lock than simply counter-arguing a point. It also gives the ability to claim the counter argument is "absurd" based on the number of corrections (which they will call "assumptions", and claim it makes too many of them for it to be plausible) necessary to illustrate its fallacy.

The issue in 2016 was never "russian voter fraud". It was whether or not trump cooperated with russia regarding their actual attempts to sway the election via propaganda. Russia did run a misinformation campaign, the collusion is just determining whether trump had any part in it.

And since we know that russia was playing those games, regardless of trump involvement, we know to look for it now. You don't play the same trick twice, least of all when people are looking for it.

If you're making the argument that if it's ok to assume russia helped trump, then its ok to assume russia is helping biden, then why did / would russia help trump only to turn around and help biden *against* trump?

Right now, trump is trying to tell people to stop counting votes. Nobody in 2016 said STOP counting. Recount perhaps, but not STOP counting. Nobody was saying "don't count votes". There was one person I remember making a big fuss about illegal votes in 2016. Trump. Even after he won, claimed that clinton only won the popular vote due to illegal votes. He won, "if you only count the legal ones".

Most types of voter fraud are extremely difficult, and rarely have any effect. The more significant forms of voter fraud exist in the form of destroying ballots, or electronic tampering with voting equipment. The former reduces actual votes, not adds fake ones. The latter can do whatever it wants. Both are typically done exclusively by those who have direct access to the ballots or voting equipment. It's not something any random person can do. Polling locations typically have a bipartisan mix of redundant overseers which does it's best to ensure nobody can just wander on in and waltz out with a sack of ballots, or uninterruptedly tamper with an electronic machine.



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06 Nov 2020, 10:21 pm

auntblabby wrote:
because djt will not "don" his big boy pants and concede already, this is gonna be tied up in the courts until at least jan. 20, 2021. i fear what SCOTUS will do.


Yeah I think that's Trump's plan to drag the counting in the hope the supreme court will agree with his lies. Almost all his conspiracy theories that subscribes to (like voter fraud) he is parroting far right groups (in this case QAnon). Trump lacks the imagination to come up with these whack theories himself.