Reply personal responsibility is a crock: here is why

Post Reply New Topic

The argument is regarding *outcomes*.

Person A buys red shoes.
Person B buys black shoes.

Later that day, Person A is murdered by a gang member in a random gang attack for wearing red.

Person A should of made a better decision?

Person A should of taken personal responsibility to not wear offensive colors ?

Why can’t the gang member just take personal responsibility and NOT murder people?

Assuming Person A i) lives in a gang turf ii) knew beforehand that wearing red might get them killed. If i) and ii) are true then (yes) they must take some responsibility for their action.

Why can't employers just take responsibility and HIRE autistic people...

Red herring alert. Hiring ANYONE who might hurt themselves or others or be unfit for the job even WITH accommodations is pretty irresponsible. It’s also irresponsible of the person seeking the job to put themselves in the position where they could pose a greater risk to themselves or others.

If it’s simply an issue of being autistic and employers are being discriminatory for no reason, just don’t tell them you’re autistic. If that doesn’t work, start your own business. If being autistic is not a problem, then you don’t owe anyone any explanation. If it is a problem and you cannot work, there’s no shame in that. If you can’t work, why seek a job in the first place?

Back to the murder analogy, it makes most sense for gangs to just not murder people. But it’s also not a secret that gang activities happen, such as turf wars, etc. Knowing this, you would take responsibility for your own safety and avoid areas where this happens. You can wear whatever color shoes you want. Doing things in places where you don’t belong knowing it will provoke someone is just plain stupid. Doesn’t make murder acceptable. It just means you are knowingly limiting the odds of continued survival. Why would you do that if you don’t have a death wish? Be smart, stay alive!

Because people blame people who are too disabled to work for their own predicament.

The kind of people who blame everyone else around them for their problems, shortcomings, mistakes, or just plain old fashioned f**k ups are the kind of people that don’t tend to make forward progress in learning, growing, achievements & so on And also tend to not get along well with parents, bosses, or authority figures of any other kind like police or judges.

Taking personal responsibility for things, owning mistakes and learning from them, is a rather critical skill for personal development And social growth. No one likes the guy who blames everyone else for the things he dropped the ball on. Just admit you made a f**k up, learn from it, and move on.

Last edited by goldfish21 on 24 Dec 2020, 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Like how I keep my car doors unlocked and leave no valuable things in my car eg. game system, phone, money, purse.

Out of curiosity what do you do for employment?

Anyway, KT67 the thing I don't want to work for someone who don't want me there. In general, I don't want to be around others who don't want me around them. All that will do is breed resentment and you won't be treated well.

I don't want us to be owed a job and here is why. Breaking it down if we were owed a job then the government would mandate employers give us one. And, if we were hired through government edict and law then again more then likely those who don't want us there will hold a grudge and find ways to make our stay their horrible. No thank you!

This is where I think libertarians are right. The non aggression principle which says the only time force is allowed is to repel force used against you. We can't force others to like us or hire us.

And, this is what I wish to do in the distant future if possible. I want to build a socialist based community in which we as a community help to uplift each other. It isn't every man for himself. I want to build a community that takes God's greatest commandments of loving God with all our might and loving others as we do ourselves. The issue with socialism today is it tries to force this on others. This is a big and huge mistake that has caused resentment amongst half the population of the USA. Not just for autistics but for NTs who want a true community and not the whole it's all about me, me, me. I want a community who has the attitude that we're in this together.

Socialists of today want to force their way upon others. As a socialist myself I think we need to embrace the libertarian ethos of the non-aggression principle.

GF, of course one should own up to one's mistakes and if one f***s up one should correct it. And, of course one should grow. Of course, one should try to be a good person to others and learn as he goes and again grow.

Not what I'm saying here.

I just don't think we have as much control over our circumstances as much as society promotes that we do. I think circumstances outside our control are a major contributing factor to our circumstances. I also think one can't progress if one doesn't grasp what he did wrong and he needs guidance to do so. In addition, I believe that sometimes one may make decisions within a circumstance without a full understanding of the problem and the circumstances that surround the problem even though one may think you do. And, let's not forget the things in our unconscious that drive us as well.

And, let's not forget this as well. How can one have ownership of one's life if there are other stakeholders that help to influence things around you thereby influencing the decisions you have and the decisions one thinks he has?

Personal responsibility assumes choice and the ability to choose and choose the most effective choice in all circumstances. Can we really do this? What is the extent of the choices we really have? What are the constraints exactly on the choices we have?

This book adds more to what I am saying.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005PW5L70/re ... TF8&btkr=1

I've had some good and not so good experiences in my life. They help to shape me who I am today. All I'm doing is simply asking questions. To simply understand things and be a better person. And, I want us all to be better persons and thinkers. That's all! That's why I ask many questions even questioning the most obvious of fact.

And, I think Carnegie has some excellent insight into things and answers alot.

And, why do we want to work for others who don't want us there? Why do we have orgs like ASAN who's purpose is to beg the almighty master employers and say "Please mighty one please let us have scraps at your table." AngelRho is right everyone. We need something different for those who don't fit in with the modern workplace. Aren't we supposed to be able to be in control of our lives yet we want to subsume that control to people who really don't want us there. Can't we do better?

The sort of people who constantly talk about victim blaming are the ones who do nothing to stay safe and don't ever learn and take precautions. They just sit back and expect the world to become roses and everyone who is a bad person all just poof, disappear.

Well if everyone in the world were good people, we wouldn't need laws and police officers. We wouldn't need work unions either. I sometimes scoff about laws or when orders are put in place because of too many stupid people so a law had to come out about it eg. driving with cell phones and texting. Do we really need a separate law for this when we already have a law against distracted driving?

And stupidity doesn't need low IQ points, you can be very well intelligent and still be a dumb ass because of victim mentality. These people are so exhausting they would probably throw a fit if I told them I didn't want them leaving any of their valuables on my car or tell them to keep it in the box between the front seats or put their bag in my trunk and lock it. How dare I imply it will be their fault if I have a break in. This is just how it looks to me when they harp on about victim blaming. They come off as people who will never take precautions and will continue being a victim.

I do have something for everyone to think about. We can establish not everyone is good but let's go to the other extreme. Are we all evil? If we're all evil then how would police and unions be effective at all? Why have them when they will only enforce laws if it would only benefit them?

And, what would a world look like if we're all good? What about all evil?

And, can we truthfully objectively define good and evil and do we need a god to do so?

You can lead a horse to the water but you can't make them drink it.

We have seen what happens when people have been "forced" to have children.

Yes we have. They use coat hangers in the back alleys

Ok.. so you accept that personal responsibility is Not a crock and that we Should take personal responsibility for our choices and their consequences. Good.

Newsflash: No one ever knows everything that could possibly influence the outcomes of their decisions. If we did we would all make perfect decisions all the time and be ultra wealthy. Even very successful people have made big mistakes in their lives and businesses - hell, my best friend who’s business is Very Successful almost made a ~$50,000.00 mistake until he ran it by me and I told him Why he shouldn’t do it for reasons he hadn’t considered. He saved that money and spent it differently instead. He’s also spent something like $350-400k on product R&D for something they’re still not 100% sure they can make work perfectly - almost there though - and he said if he knew how hard it would be he probably would have never done it.. But, when it is done it May pay off a lot more money than that over time and prove worth the investment - No one has a crystal ball & we only have limited abilities to assess risk. That’s life.

As for organizations connecting disabled people with jobs.. afai can tell, they exist to assist because people can’t do better on their own. IF they can in fact do better by getting their own job Or contract Or operating their own business, then they have the freedom of choice to do those things. No one is holding their feet to the fire and forcing them into accepting a job through any such organization. And it seems these organizations provide true value to people who are otherwise unable to obtain any sort of employment on their own, no??

yes but not absolutely as the usa promotes. Why can't we both have internal and external locus of control? Why can't both be true?

So, to an extent personal responsibility is true but to the extent that the usa and conservatives promote it to me it is a crock.