Reply personal responsibility is a crock: here is why

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Back in the days, many kids from poor families skipped school so they can work to help their families. The purpose of child labor laws were so all kids could get an education and then it became the law that all kids must attend school. People realized how important education is.

I have noticed living in Montana, it's very common for teens of poor families to start working once they are old enough to get one. Then they hand their paychecks to their parents or they buy their own clothing and things they need. I used to think it was so great of them to have their own money and make more than I would at home so I could buy whatever I wanted. But my parents said no. That was because I was privileged enough to not have to work as a child. Kids from middle class or wealthy families get jobs only to save up for college, not to support themselves and to help their families out with food and utilities.

I wasn't allowed to work as a minor because my parents knew I wouldn't be able to handle it mentally and they would be dealing with high anxiety in me and it would have been hell for the whole family and anxiety means my ASD symptoms are more severe. They didn't want to deal with autism and my OCD.

It won't, but it will keep them sane. Survival tends to be a higher priority than self-improvement.

One thing I have learned about humans is all humans need some sort of stimulation. Take everything away from a human in a enclosed room and leave them with nothing, they literally go insane. I saw a science video about it on youtube once.

I also saw another video about Russian prisons and they are more brutal than American prisons, you are not allowed to sleep or sit or do anything in your cell and this also messes with your brain you eventually get brain damaged according to one of the inmates. So basically having some entertainment is also a necessity as well. There are cheap things to do to relax like read or watch free TV (Tubi or youtube, Pluto TV, Popcorn) coloring, drawing, painting (Just buy Crayola paint or finger paint or water colors).

That poor girl I told everyone about earlier I used to know at work, she was always buying coloring book stuff from The Dollar Tree. That was all she could afford and she enjoyed it too.

This is why American Prisons all inmates to have some stuff in their cell like radio or current events or a TV, including death row inmates. It would fall under the cruel and unusual punishment if they became like Russian Prisons by stripping everything away from them and had them stare at a wall.

Conservative life coaches like Ramsey or Robert Kiyosaki (rich dad, poor dad) suggest that the problem with poor people is that they think like poor people.

Their advice to poor people is to think like successful, rich people.

This brings us to the the real problem.

Everyone wants to get rich, but no one wants to sacrifice.

I have lived like I was poor for many years (exaggeration) so I could have money to splurge and buy stuff I wanted and save up for a down payment on a house. Two years of my savings from my first job here in Oregon went to my house and we were left with 0$ but at least we have a house. Then right after that, rents went up and now we have a homeless problem. We got lucky.

This makes perfect sense to me.

Prioritizing short-term "survival" over long-term survivability makes no sense at all ...

... unless someone is holding a gun to your head.

Oh, do tell me first how someone who found suddenly himself living on the street among junkies, prostitutes, pimps, drug-dealers, and parolees due to poor health, dismissal from work, and a faithless wife managed to overcome all of that while working three part-time jobs and paying child-support.

But I am not talking about those people, I am talking about people who have done none of that but work to survive to keep a roof over their head and to feed their stomachs and mostly work harder than most people to even stay off the streets.

Been there.  Done that.

LG, you are someone whom I really do not want to offend.  I have been homeless, I have lived in poverty, and I have overcome both.  To tell me that it cannot be done is to tell me that what I have been through never happened.  This is the same as what happens whenever I volunteer to work on homelessness committees, so I will do here what I have done there: I am going to withdraw from this discussion so as not to further "pollute" this thread with my fact-based accounts.  Good luck to everyone.

Instead of just judging people who are less fortunate than you, why not write a book about your life and how you managed to get out of that situation and hope that people pick up that book and read it and use you as their inspiration and role model.

You even admitted you were poor so you are being a hypocrite by judging people who work their asses off to stay off the streets bit can't even go to school and even study to better their lives to earn more or to work on any skill they have and do something they enjoy that can give them a living. Unlike in the UK where they seem to give free education to people and free housing to those who are poor and pay for everything. Someone on Twitter who was on disability decided they wanted to be a therapist so they went back to school and studied than being on disability and working a low wage job only 3 times a week. This was the UK. First they got their mental health under control first with lots of therapy, BPD.

I'm sorry fnord but if this was true for everyone, I wouldn't still be on disability. I have tried to live like a NT in the past and I used to be one of these hateful members on here because of it because I was working full time and wanting to be independent and living like I am poor so I have money to splurge and this was when I didn't have any kids. I wouldn't have finished high school either if it weren't for the help I got because of my learning issues.

I exist so posts like that you wrote are very insulting to me and to people with disabilities like me who will never be in high class. Sorry I could not overcome my learning challenges but I have never ever asked for any handouts like demanding a nice house or demanding a nice car or demanding anything like vacations or trips. I have also never demanded my parents to pay for a gig I wanted to try.

In some parts of the UK this happens - like in Scotland.

In most of the UK it doesn't happen.

Unless you mean school. Decent free schools exist here (American public/state schools exist too! I can think of very few developed nations without education for the under 17s) but seems postcode dependent so it's more a case of keeping the middle class kids in a nice environment.

League_Girl,

He's not going to listen to you or any facts you tell him. You're wasting your time with Fnord.

Everyone, I think we're getting way off track here.

We're not talking about capitalism or economics.

We're talking about personal responsibility and why I think it is a crock.

Let me ask you all this.

Is it logically possible to make the positive decisions every single time one faces a decision?

And, do all positive decisions lead to positive outcomes?

Do we have absolute control over our outcomes, our lives and the decisions we make? If not, what is the level of control we do have? How do we know and determine this?

Is it logically possible for everyone to make the correct and positive decisions to get themselves out of poverty? Prove that it is possible for everyone?

Is it logically possible for everyone to make the correct and positive and decisions to become rich? Prove that it is possible for everyone?

How easy is it for someone even if they make all positive and correct decisions to fall into poverty?

Can everyone succeed in the USA and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps no matter what their circumstances are? Prove that this is possible?

The claims of personal responsibility advocates are that everyone no matter their circumstance can succeed in the USA, get and keep jobs, provide themselves a living and even make it rich. The claims are that if one is in negative circumstances then it is your fault and it is due to the decisions one has made? Can conservatives and personal responsibility advocates prove this? Can they look at all possible circumstances and scenarios and create winners from all possible scenarios for everyone and anyone no matter who they are? Prove it! Prove your BS for all cases?

The truth of the matter is no, they can't. But I would love to see them try.