Are black people genetically good at basketball

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Nades
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14 Jan 2021, 12:43 pm

Jiheisho wrote:

But is race the driver of those genetic changes? But is race the driver of those genetic changes? Yes, winning the genetic lottery is important. But is it an individual difference or a collective one (i.e. based on race). Are the Koreans the best archers in the world because of their genetics or because of their training regime and large pool of athletes? The same can be said of the Japanese and Judo,


I would say race is a driving factor in many sports. The type of sports matters a lot. Archery is a sport that requires a lot of perseverance and practice but little in the way of physical endurance and strength. Martial arts requires just as much perseverance and proactive and also physical strength but being small doesn't appear to be a hindrance as I wouldn't compare it to running or playing a football/basketball match.

Lets pretend that you took 100 Asians and 100 Whites/blacks and asked them to run 200 meters each. Averaged out white/black people will beat them at running hands down. It's well known that Asians are smaller in stature and few people can really counter argue that. It just means that running isn't their strong point but like you said, technical sports they're very good at.



roronoa79
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14 Jan 2021, 12:48 pm

None of this is even going into the fact that race is fake and Africans and those in the diaspora are not monolithic and identical.

There are other social factors at play that encourage those of African descent to seek success in sports. Why are Jamaicans and Kenyans such good runners? They have a less sedentary lifestyle and running teams can be formed and practice without needing to shell out money for equipment or facilities that you might need for eg: baseball. Underfunded schools with no money for other sports programs? Track and cross-country are your best options.
I'd wager another part of it is racism against those of African descent. Your racist English teacher can keep you out of college by rationalizing giving you a failing grade. Racist college admissions offices can decide you shouldn't get in or get this or that scholarship. Your racist boss can rationalize firing you or passing you over for a promotion. If you're great at sports though, people can't argue with the scoreboard. In a racist society, sports is a comparative meritocracy--and plenty of them know this.


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Nades
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14 Jan 2021, 12:52 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
None of this is even going into the fact that race is fake and Africans and those in the diaspora are not monolithic and identical.

There are other social factors at play that encourage those of African descent to seek success in sports. Why are Jamaicans and Kenyans such good runners? They have a less sedentary lifestyle and running teams can be formed and practice without needing to shell out money for equipment or facilities that you might need for eg: baseball. Underfunded schools with no money for other sports programs? Track and cross-country are your best options.
I'd wager another part of it is racism against those of African descent. Your racist English teacher can keep you out of college by rationalizing giving you a failing grade. Racist college admissions offices can decide you shouldn't get in or get this or that scholarship. Your racist boss can rationalize firing you or passing you over for a promotion. If you're great at sports though, people can't argue with the scoreboard. In a racist society, sports is a comparative meritocracy.


Everything is racist when it comes to black people isn't it? Nobody would care in the slightest if I said Asians where shorter on average that other races but as soon as someone mentions the word "black".....even if it's to say they're good at sports people start to go apeshit.

Of course races exist. They each have their own physical appearances and cultures that differ to others.



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14 Jan 2021, 12:53 pm

Nades wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:

But is race the driver of those genetic changes? But is race the driver of those genetic changes? Yes, winning the genetic lottery is important. But is it an individual difference or a collective one (i.e. based on race). Are the Koreans the best archers in the world because of their genetics or because of their training regime and large pool of athletes? The same can be said of the Japanese and Judo,


I would say race is a driving factor in many sports. The type of sports matters a lot. Archery is a sport that requires a lot of perseverance and practice but little in the way of physical endurance and strength. Martial arts requires just as much perseverance and proactive and also physical strength but being small doesn't appear to be a hindrance as I wouldn't compare it to running or playing a football/basketball match.

Lets pretend that you took 100 Asians and 100 Whites/blacks and asked them to run 200 meters each. Averaged out white/black people will beat them at running hands down. It's well known that Asians are smaller in stature and few people can really counter argue that. It just means that running isn't their strong point but like you said, technical sports they're very good at.


You have obviously never drawn an Olympic recurve bow if you don't think endurance and strength are not part of the sport.

If you took a random selection of races and made them race, you would see a random outcome. If your justification for Blacks being dominant in Basketball because of height, the stats would not bear you out:

Quote:
These are average heights for U.S. men by race:

Non-Hispanic white: 177.4 centimeters, or just under 5 feet, 10 inches
Non-Hispanic black: 175.5 centimeters, or just over 5 feet, 9 inches
Non-Hispanic Asian: 169.7 centimeters, or just under 5 feet, 7 inches
Hispanic: 169.5 centimeters, or just under 5 feet, 7 inches


By your logic, white men should dominate.



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14 Jan 2021, 12:55 pm

Nades wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
None of this is even going into the fact that race is fake and Africans and those in the diaspora are not monolithic and identical.

There are other social factors at play that encourage those of African descent to seek success in sports. Why are Jamaicans and Kenyans such good runners? They have a less sedentary lifestyle and running teams can be formed and practice without needing to shell out money for equipment or facilities that you might need for eg: baseball. Underfunded schools with no money for other sports programs? Track and cross-country are your best options.
I'd wager another part of it is racism against those of African descent. Your racist English teacher can keep you out of college by rationalizing giving you a failing grade. Racist college admissions offices can decide you shouldn't get in or get this or that scholarship. Your racist boss can rationalize firing you or passing you over for a promotion. If you're great at sports though, people can't argue with the scoreboard. In a racist society, sports is a comparative meritocracy.


Everything is racist when it comes to black people isn't it? Nobody would care in the slightest if I said Asians where shorter on average that other races but as soon as someone mentions the word "black".....even if it's to say they're good at sports people start to go apeshit.

Of course races exist. They each have their own physical appearances and cultures that differ to others.


Actually, race is simply a social category. It is not a biological one. Biologically, race does not exist.



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14 Jan 2021, 12:56 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
Nades wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
None of this is even going into the fact that race is fake and Africans and those in the diaspora are not monolithic and identical.

There are other social factors at play that encourage those of African descent to seek success in sports. Why are Jamaicans and Kenyans such good runners? They have a less sedentary lifestyle and running teams can be formed and practice without needing to shell out money for equipment or facilities that you might need for eg: baseball. Underfunded schools with no money for other sports programs? Track and cross-country are your best options.
I'd wager another part of it is racism against those of African descent. Your racist English teacher can keep you out of college by rationalizing giving you a failing grade. Racist college admissions offices can decide you shouldn't get in or get this or that scholarship. Your racist boss can rationalize firing you or passing you over for a promotion. If you're great at sports though, people can't argue with the scoreboard. In a racist society, sports is a comparative meritocracy.


Everything is racist when it comes to black people isn't it? Nobody would care in the slightest if I said Asians where shorter on average that other races but as soon as someone mentions the word "black".....even if it's to say they're good at sports people start to go apeshit.

Of course races exist. They each have their own physical appearances and cultures that differ to others.


Actually, race is simply a social category. It is not a biological one. Biologically, race does not exist.


So I can become black or Asian any time I desire?



madbutnotmad
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14 Jan 2021, 1:15 pm

I would say that this is all about stereotypes and cultural differences.

The definition of "black" encompasses a massive broad amounts of different people from loads of different countries.
Within the various people there is a massive variety in terms of size, abilities, physical appearance.

Within the term Asian, there again is a massive variety in the same attributes.

For the sports / arts / activities mentioned, sure, certain attributes would be desirable.
For example, being tall and athletic for basketball is

So I would say that it isn't to do with race but the attributes you have, but psychological make up is an extremely important factor.

For example, if you had a person with all the desirable physical attributes but had a very low IQ and poor motor function, then such a person may lose a martial art fight with someone who had less desirable physical attributes, higher IQ and good motor function.

The reason why so many pro basketball players are black and from the US, is because basketball is very popular in the US.

There are tall people from other countries, such as Russia etc.
But the sport isn't as popular, so the people who may make really good basketball players may have decided to do other things.

Russia, out of interest, has some of the best martial artists in the world, especially in the heavy weight category.
This is the same for some other countries that took to asian martial arts more than other countries who also include super big people within their demographic population.

Another example of this is the French and Heavy weight Judo, who have produced a number of heavy weight world Judo Champs that even the Japanese can't beat.

Teddy Riner is a prime example of this. Teddy Riner broke even the most prolific Japanese heavyweight super champions such as Yasuhiro Yamashita. (pronounced Yama-reet-a, and not as rude as it is spelt in english).

I, as a martial art coach and someone who has done several martial arts since a kid, has seen all sorts of people break the stereotypes.

For example. a fat kid who started karate at 11, who had ASD and turned out to have a stronger will power and an ability for hyper focus who turned out to be a champ.

I have seen small guys do Brazilian jiu Jitsu, who couldn't be tapped out by people twice his weight.
I have seen 60 kg men throw with ease men who are 130 kg.
I have seen small karate guys deck several opponents of same or higher belt level who have more experience with ease.

Some people simple destroy stereotypes.
These are the ones you keep your eyes on.
However, due to upsetting people, they often get shunned (as they upset the logical order of things,
imagine, you been doing a martial art like Judo for 30 years, and someone smaller than you, with less muscle,
ends up getting better than you in a couple of years, and even though they have a lower belt, they can deck you.
Yep, that is why some people hate people who break the stereotypes, as it breaks their delusions they have about themselves).

Assume nothing. Stereotypes apply sometimes, but are not strict rules.



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14 Jan 2021, 7:05 pm

If all black people had a genetic tendency to be excellent basketball players, this would include people from the Pygmy tribes.

Somehow I doubt that they are.

So it's more a case of 'all tall people have a tendency to be excellent basketball players, given the right cultural background of playing basketball at a young age'.

I think if you get very specific about ethnicity - rather than 'black' think 'Kenyan' - there might be genetic factors in it. For eg a man with long, fast legs might produce a son with long, fast legs. But there'll be cultural factors at play, too imo and when it's a family thing, it's hard to distinguish one from the other.


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15 Jan 2021, 3:18 am

It's interesting, because some of the tallest people on Earth are Africans (Tutsi and Dinka), as well as some of the smallest (the Batu).

I believe, on average, black folks do have the greatest average discrepancy of height from tall-to-short. Height being very important in basketball (though clearly not the only factor). On average, yes, if height is important to the sport, it's reasonable to think most players of note would be black.

I don't know if height alone makes anyone "good" at the sport, but height is an advantage.



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15 Jan 2021, 11:13 am

roronoa79 wrote:
None of this is even going into the fact that race is fake and Africans and those in the diaspora are not monolithic and identical.

There are other social factors at play that encourage those of African descent to seek success in sports. Why are Jamaicans and Kenyans such good runners? They have a less sedentary lifestyle and running teams can be formed and practice without needing to shell out money for equipment or facilities that you might need for eg: baseball. Underfunded schools with no money for other sports programs? Track and cross-country are your best options.
I'd wager another part of it is racism against those of African descent. Your racist English teacher can keep you out of college by rationalizing giving you a failing grade. Racist college admissions offices can decide you shouldn't get in or get this or that scholarship. Your racist boss can rationalize firing you or passing you over for a promotion. If you're great at sports though, people can't argue with the scoreboard. In a racist society, sports is a comparative meritocracy--and plenty of them know this.

There is a slight contradiction here.

Yes, Jamaicans and Kenyans are very good at “running”, but “running” is at least two different things, sprints and distance running.

Jamaicans, Trinidadians, and African Americans dominate sprinting, followed by black British and Canadian sprinters. China and Japan do perform quite well, generally better than white people. China has a very large population, and Japan’s population is much larger than any white-majority nation except the US - but Jamaica and Trinidad have quite small populations. Yes, Jamaica has a real culture of sprinting, but they still punch hugely above their weight. Their success is partially due to their population having a larger than average number of fast twitch fibres, amongst many other genetic coincidences, as well as a culture that glorifies sprinting the way that most countries glorify football. It seems in general that people of West African descent are more likely to have genetic advantages when it comes to sprinting, although this doesn’t mean that every West African person will be fast. (Also, West Africa is a very genetically and culturally diverse place)

Why Jamaica, Trinidad, and US rather than say Nigeria or Ghana? Jamaica and Trinidad both have more resources. Trinidad and Tobago has a GDP per capita comparable to Bulgaria, but Jamaica has twice the population and invests more into sprinting. The US of course has a larger absolute black population than them and is also much richer. Comparatively Nigeria and Ghana have larger populations than Jamaica, T&T, or St Kitts and Nevis, but their GDP per capita is less than half Jamaica’s and 20% of T&T. A large portion of the population is in poverty. Football is also much more culturally important.

East Africa does not produce elite sprinters, but it does produce elite distance runners. Ethiopia and Kenya obviously come to mind, but arguably the greatest distance runner of all is Sir Mo Farah, who is British... from a Somalian background. People in parts of Ethiopia and Kenya often run at altitude in their daily lives, which helps to build stamina, but there is also evidence that they have genetic advantages. Again, of course, not all people from these countries have the genes in question, but more so than in other countries. Even more so than in sprinting, distance running requires a combination of extremely hard work and natural aptitude.

So simplifying things down to race doesn’t work, but neither does dismissing genetics out of hand. Some people just naturally find it easier to move quickly, maintain fitness, or generate power. Sometimes this overlaps with our traditional, flawed models of “race”, but skin colour doesn’t affect running speed.

Swimming, cycling, martial arts? Slightly harder to believe genetic explanations there - access to training facilities and culture are likely to play even bigger roles. But of course there are genes which impact hand-eye co-ordination and so forth. These skills can be improved through practice, but some people find it easier to improve than others. But I think race is a red herring.



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15 Jan 2021, 11:17 am



"Are Black People Genetically Good At Basketball"

James Naismith, Perhaps Coincidentally, Celebrated
Today With Google Doodle As Doctor And Athletic
White Canadian Dude Who Invented The Sport of

Basketball

In the 1800's,

Literally As such,

Proves That Black

People Are Not Born

Genetically Good at Basketball

as In this Case, the Egg of Basketball Came Second;

Yet of Course, i am Being Rather Stiff and Pedantic

Here not Withstanding Metaphor as the Op Obviously

Meant Does Genetics Give Black Folks An Advantage

In the Mechanics

of the Game

of Basketball...

Yet, if they literally

Meant Good; Adaptation

To The Environment Per Long

Limbs And Less Subcutaneous Body

Fat on Average Means Nothing to Skill

of What it Takes to Be Good

As It Doesn't

Matter How

Tall Or Fast

You Are if i have

The Skill i Will Steal

The Basketball Away from

You Faster than You 'Know'

With Intelligence of What my Body

Has Learned in Years and Years of

Sweat Earned for the Steal; Yeah,

And on the Other Hand, if i am

A Martial Artist (i am) Who Doesn't

Go By The Rules of

Peace And

Harmony

One Strike of

A Kick Developed over

Years and Years of Practice

With 1520 Pounds of Leg Pressing

Strength at Age 60 Will Put Ya Down

in a Blink of An Eye; Yet THAT WON'T Beat

The Speed of A Bullet

in my Head

From across

The Room of someone

Who Has Friends; Therefore,

Hence, The Greatest Martial Artist

Never Has

to Land

A Blow

With the

Quickest Wit

And Cleverness of All...

Epigenetics And Neuroplasticity
Are one (AND MORE) of my Special Interests
Now What the Proof of the Human Pudding
Is Are the Empirical Results We Will Show

In A Life Well
Practiced to Unlock
DNA We ALL Share

In Epigenetic Potential...

Wanna See a 60 Year-Old
Dude Leg Press 1340 Pounds
All Naturally Without Any Chemical
Induced 'Ronnie Simmons Legs'; Yes,

Humans As Science Shows Have the
All Natural Potential to Still be Strong
As Orangutans, If They Move All Their
Life Meeting Challenges of Gravity

And Don't Just
Sit on their
Butt; no Matter
What the Shade
of the Skin or Build
Of their Body is across

A FULLY DEVELOPED Human Life Span

NoW; iN OTheR Words, Don't Believe
Couch Potato Averages Or
Labels Assigned of Limitations

For What Counts

Most

Is Attitude

of Perseverance

In Meeting All Challenges

In Autotelic Flow of Balance to ADAPT Releasing Higher Human Potentials

Now With No Applause Required from a Target Audience...
Same Way, i became a Most Prolific Free Verse Poet Ever
in the History of Humankind by Empirical Measure of
8.8 MiLLioN Words in 88 Months Without the ability
to Speak Until 4; Without a Creative Bone in my
Body through my 40's; Without Even any
Fuel to Pull Up Words to Speak With

Other Humans;

Or Yeah, Described

As a Dizzy Fly in Moving
With Asperger's Syndrome

too; so Awkward, so Dam Awkward;

And Now assessed As Dance Legend
By Folks 40 Years Younger in 14,303
Miles of Public Dance in 88 Months As Well...

People Wondering How the Hell i Will Spin so
Long And Stop in A Silent Second of No Motion

Never
Ever
Dizzy
At All... Now...

Practice, Practice, practice...

Start off With One Step and one Word

And Make Your Life the Most Awesome
Dance And Song that Many folks admit

They have ever seen before..

i haven't got around

to Playing Basketball

Yet; Yet, if you tell

me i Cannot;

Just

Wait,

And See

What Happens Next...

99 Percent of what We Do
Is Just Waiting to Happen When We Do...

Other than that; i Commend the Overall

Tone of 'This Thread'; it's Very Rational

And It Doesn't

Feel like

'The World

of Trump' at

All; Perhaps, 'the World' is changing;

For It's True, When We See What We Lack

In Others; We Often Improve Over their Weak Human Achievements...

Or On the Other Hand; We Sink to their Level; Never Rise and 'Insurrect' in Ignorance....

Bravo,
Overall

Bravo!

The FAct this
Thread Still exists

in itself; says a lot about Change;

Adaptation to Struggles of 'Soul' (Human) Improvement;

And 'Human Fish Potential Achieved'.... Beyond The Fray of 'Lesser Bait'....

And Since this is A Philosophy, Politics, AND Religion

Forum to Cover All 3 Bases of 'the Game'

Oh By The Way, 'John 14:12' Per
That Very Limited Edition of Religion

Is Just Another Early Form of

'A Nike Commercial'

That Sets

'Goats' From

Sheep' Apart

In Human Achievement of Faith in What We Do in Focus

Of Autotelic Flow of Heaven Within Is the Believe 'They Will',

the Belief 'They Do', And Just 'Will'....

Or We Will See It Very

Literally, Pedantically,

Limited in Form of Semantics;

Cold With No Feelings to Drive

Us Forward With Emotions As All

Emotions Are, Are Biological Energy We Propel Our Actions with...

Those Who Don't Employ The Feelings of This Are Just Lacking Practice too, in Skills of Emotional Intelligence;

Yes, Genetics influences Everything We Do; Yet, Practice Separates the 'Trump Chaff' From the 'Obama Wheat'....

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/15/sport/james-naismith-basketball-google-doodle-spt/index.html


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15 Jan 2021, 11:37 am

Stereotype:
Black people are the only people who can make reggae.

Reality:
Bob Marley's father was white. So Bob Marley was neither black nor white.

Was Bob Marley any good at making Reggae?

Chris Blackwell was arguably the best reggae producer the world has seen.
Chris Blackwell is a white man born in London and was English.

Phil Brown and Tony Plat were the main sound engineers on Bob Marley's Albums.
Both White.

"Until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes" Haile Selassie aka Ras Tafari (aka God to the Rastafari movement), also from mixed race genetics.



madbutnotmad
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15 Jan 2021, 11:40 am

KT67 wrote:
If all black people had a genetic tendency to be excellent basketball players, this would include people from the Pygmy tribes.


Pygmy's would likely be very good at Pygmy league basketball.

Just out of interest, there is a disabled Olympics which includes a Judo category for visually impaired (including people who are completely blind). Many of these Judo experts are amazing and much better than most NTs.

Assume nothing.



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15 Jan 2021, 12:36 pm

Meh...replies to these kinds of posts are usually annoying. People are going to assume things like stereotypes and racism.

FACT: Some of the fastest marathon runners in the world come from Kenya, and specifically it's the Kalenjin tribe that consistently has the best performers. There are several factors that contribute to why they are so well adapted to running, and undoubtedly genetics DOES play a role.

It's not hateful to ask whether race or genetics predisposes someone to superior athletic performance.

Just from my opinion, though, I don't think what you see in America with basketball and football players is necessarily racial or genetic. I think it's probably more cultural. When I've worked with minorities, I noticed with young men (high school kids) there were three main ambitions after high school: Hip-hop artist, basketball player, football player. I would always try to encourage the hip-hop artists and ask if they'd show me their skills after school, but I never got any takers. They claimed they couldn't produce any music before they "got signed," which tells me even they didn't really take themselves that seriously. But for the athletes, it was more that they didn't really have much of an expectation to "make it" academically. If they could only get through high school and get a full ride to a university, they had a chance of doing well in some professional career, so you had all these college ball players who majored in stuff like liberal arts, sociology, psychology, sports medicine/physical therapy, physical education, and so on--basically, either something that would be relevant to a post-college career in sports on some level or some easy crap major so they can mark time until they "go pro," which doesn't really put them in any better position than the high school hip-hop artist wannabes. They're not dumb kids. It's just nobody expects any better from them. Every bit of that is a cultural thing, and it just coincidentally happens to affect minorities. Pretty much your options in life are: Lawyer/community organizer/social worker, preacher, funeral director, athlete. Everyone else can get on welfare. And no, that's not a stereotype. That comes from teaching in critical needs areas and filing bankruptcies for impoverished people, predominantly minorities. One minute you think you're helping people down on their luck, rejoicing when they get their Chapter 13 discharged, the next you're IMMEDIATELY filing fresh, new paperwork for an emergency filing. How do people live like that? But it becomes the norm. And so culturally it's even more urgent to push for success in sports because for some of these people, they see it as the only way out. I can't blame them for that. You either become a rock star on the field or court or you become a crack dealer, and it can be difficult to help someone discover they actually do have even better, more realistic, more satisfying options.

Reminds me of this one student I had in band class. He showed exceptional talent playing drums and tuba. Only trouble was he was extremely aggressive and disruptive to class. He earned his required fine arts electives from me and I was happy to pass him along, let him be someone else's problem. This kid was ALSO extremely talented in sports, was a starter on the football team, was obsessed with basketball, etc., built like a tank, and rumor had it he was on roids. But I was constantly doing discipline paperwork on him. One of the last times I contacted his parents, they pulled him off the basketball team. Like...permanently removed for the season. Well...his behavior significantly improved in my class and he never gave me a hard time after he realized I could seriously ruin his career. However, that's not the kind of teacher I am. So the NEXT YEAR he tried to re-enroll in band--for no apparent reason, just wanted to be there. I'm like, dude, I know you...you're going to act a fool, I'm going to get you kicked off the basketball team, and this just isn't going to end well for either of us. You're INSANE after all you've pulled you think I'll let you back in my class. Heck, naw. And I let the school know it was either him or me. I got him enrolled in an ACT Prep course, study hall, anything/everything EXCEPT my class, and guess what? He ended up with a full athletic scholarship somewhere. It was nothing personal. He was probably one of my best music students. He was super smart. But between our personality differences and his issues with self control, it was really that I didn't want to be responsible for messing up the good thing that he had going for him. If you don't take the time to understand the culture and how much this means to them, you can't really help them.

Are all minorities like that? Nope. Never said they were. But what I am saying is within that particular subculture there is an intense drive to excel in athletics because the perception is they don't have a chance in academics. It's a reasonable perception. I've noticed girls tend to excel in high school as though academics are made to favor girls. But these young men? Athletic scholarships are many times more than academic scholarships. Once you put it into perspective and consider the experience of minorities in America, the pressure for minorities to excel in athletics is much more than non-minorities. You can't be all that surprised that pro sports are predominantly minorities.



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15 Jan 2021, 12:59 pm

White people are genetically good for nothing.

I'm white so it's okay to say that, right? :twisted:



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15 Jan 2021, 1:00 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
White people are genetically good for nothing.

I'm white so it's okay to say that, right? :twisted:

You're so racist! :lol: