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What someone has said about abortion on another forum.

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HeroOfHyrule
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05 Feb 2021, 3:03 pm

Blue_Star wrote:
I really wish ppl would stop with the "it's such a difficult decision" & such. It doesn't have to be difficult. It frankly shouldn't be difficult. Yes, it really can be a simple decision. Some of us really don't view it as any worse than a dental extraction. And there's nothing wrong, evil, or unhealthy about seeing it & experiencing it as such.

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
You can disagree with people getting an abortion, but you can't deny that the women who have to go through one often grieve.

Beyond the ones at the abortion clinic to remove an already dead fetus since no other practice would, I've not met anyone who grieved. I've met a lot of ppl who want to force that feeling onto women tho...

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
It's still traumatizing for a lot of them and is never an easy or lighthearted decision.

Not fair to force that on women either.

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
Women are very aware they are ending the life of something, even if it's just a zygote or fetus, and no one enjoys having to do that.

Again, not fair to force this feeling onto women.

Never said women have to have this feeling forced on them.

I'm female-to-male trans and have the possibility of getting pregnant. Getting pregnant terrifies me specifically because I would go with the option of getting an abortion, and yes that process would be traumatizing to me.

It's good that YOU wouldn't be distressed by it, but there are women who are upset by it for many reasons. It's a medical procedure with risks and not everyone just treats their zygote/fetus, even if they don't want it, like it's just nothing more than bacteria. For many women it's not just a routine dental extraction.

My entire point was that a lot of people who are against abortion act like the women who get them treat them as contraception (which isn't true at all) and don't ever give a crap about the process or what they're doing (which often isn't true either). Women are not uncaring about it and a lot of them do have to put a lot of thought into their abortions.



Gaffer Gragz
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05 Feb 2021, 7:08 pm

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Gaffer Gragz wrote:
Everything around 'producing' a child can cause trauma and the reason is that its the most profound act you can ever do. On the surface all of us treat this as easy and morale this and morale that etc, but the more you think of the consequences of it, and even more the unintended consequences of it, some of us start to realize this is so far from easy. Its not only the circumstances but the depth of knowledge of reality versus how much your brain is affected with morale and religious and social edicts that direct the really scary traumatization prosess that take place. Well, its my hypothesis, I've been thinking about this on and off for 24 years and the public arguments are the same as way back. I guess at least I've moved on.  Lets just say that I approve of the ide that contraception and education is mandatory and have hopes that some clever ppl would plz start development on a body suit with diving apparatus that is completely utterly gametes tight. Preferably for both sexes for double protection and safety. ofc one opportunity is to embrace virtual life. Hmm. Possibly better than the bodysuits? Meh, I vote for bodysuits bc they would be safe from more than gametes crossing the barriere. Mebeh with a silver lining and a lead outer layer for added protection '')
↑ This is an example of why men should not be the ones to determine what reproductive rights women can and cannot have.  Ridicule, deprecation, and argument to absurdity have no place in a reasoned discussion.

My interpretation: it was a joke attempt taken seriously.
Or I hope so.


I did edit my text as soon as i saw the reaction, I did read and read my text looking for what insults and degradation i had cause moreover I'm not native English user nor British/American there are a lot of traps to fall into. Then it hit me that possibly the last part of the text was to little differentiated from the main part. I was hoping that words like mandatory used in the context, meh, mebeh, silver lining and protective layer of lead would for sure be understood as an attempt to lift our spirits somewhat. The subject/topic is just heart breking.



Rexi
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05 Feb 2021, 7:13 pm

Gaffer Gragz wrote:
magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Gaffer Gragz wrote:
Everything around 'producing' a child can cause trauma and the reason is that its the most profound act you can ever do. On the surface all of us treat this as easy and morale this and morale that etc, but the more you think of the consequences of it, and even more the unintended consequences of it, some of us start to realize this is so far from easy. Its not only the circumstances but the depth of knowledge of reality versus how much your brain is affected with morale and religious and social edicts that direct the really scary traumatization prosess that take place. Well, its my hypothesis, I've been thinking about this on and off for 24 years and the public arguments are the same as way back. I guess at least I've moved on.  Lets just say that I approve of the ide that contraception and education is mandatory and have hopes that some clever ppl would plz start development on a body suit with diving apparatus that is completely utterly gametes tight. Preferably for both sexes for double protection and safety. ofc one opportunity is to embrace virtual life. Hmm. Possibly better than the bodysuits? Meh, I vote for bodysuits bc they would be safe from more than gametes crossing the barriere. Mebeh with a silver lining and a lead outer layer for added protection '')
↑ This is an example of why men should not be the ones to determine what reproductive rights women can and cannot have.  Ridicule, deprecation, and argument to absurdity have no place in a reasoned discussion.

My interpretation: it was a joke attempt taken seriously.
Or I hope so.


I did edit my text as soon as i saw the reaction, I did read and read my text looking for what insults and degradation i had cause moreover I'm not native English user nor British/American there are a lot of traps to fall into. Then it hit me that possibly the last part of the text was to little differentiated from the main part. I was hoping that words like mandatory used in the context, meh, mebeh, silver lining and protective layer of lead would for sure be understood as an attempt to lift our spirits somewhat. The subject/topic is just heart breking.

You're very sweet. That's something I would do.
Tell me, what does this suit do, is it waterproof? Does it stop on the esophagus? Can I swallow? I seriously need to lock everything except breathing. I guess this suit could be an entire new body though, maybe transfer to being robots. Hmm, that's too complicated though.
The fact that deep kissing transmits hpv is sad.
But for pregnancy prevention itd be a good idea to go with the suit. Maybe just tight spermicidal shorts that become a second skin like a futuristic technology or fiber.

The fact we can sanitize our hands through uv ray lamps that fit into our pocket is cool.


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06 Feb 2021, 1:44 am

Why is the politics of abortion such a big deal for a lot of of people? Can't people just use birth control pills and condoms and not worry about the issue so much then, and call it a day?



Misslizard
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06 Feb 2021, 10:49 am

I had two c-sections, those were pretty traumatic.Pregnancy can be traumatic if you aren’t in a position to care for a child or have health issues.
Really traumatic for a teen who is basically still a child.


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Jiheisho
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06 Feb 2021, 11:22 am

ironpony wrote:
Why is the politics of abortion such a big deal for a lot of of people? Can't people just use birth control pills and condoms and not worry about the issue so much then, and call it a day?


Because some very large groups like the Catholic church believe using birth control and abortion is morally wrong and can lead to consequences, not only in this life, but the next as well.



ironpony
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06 Feb 2021, 10:29 pm

But if people want to have sex, why not just use birth control to avoid abortion and not care what the church thinks?



Gaffer Gragz
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07 Feb 2021, 1:23 am

ironpony wrote:
But if people want to have sex, why not just use birth control to avoid abortion and not care what the church thinks?


Exactly, why do people think that what religion and moralists say is critical to follow.
It beats me. I've studied history enough to understand that what we cherish and follow religiously from the past is made up by people to fool and get power in their community at their time. Its magic belief and fright of the unknown.

Today these unknowns simply are not there. so why do people think that what religion and moralists say is critical to follow? Anyone?



Fireblossom
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07 Feb 2021, 5:27 am

magz wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
I know some women who've gotten traumatized from giving birth, so being against abortion to avoid anyone getting traumatized really isn't valid in itself. The opposite can also be very traumatizing.

A very traumatizing thing is not being considered a valid person with feelings, point of view, opinions, etc.
Being forced to have an abortion or to give a birth can be just as traumatising when you are degraded to just a body with nothing to say about it.


Of course. The point I was trying to make is that if someone is against abortion (when it comes to someone else's body) because it can traumatize the woman, then that's not really a valid reason alone since birth giving and pregnancy can be traumatizing, too. While saying "don't abort it, you could get traumatized for a lifetime" is valid, saying "don't give birth to it, it could traumatize you for the rest of your life" is just as valid. In other words, if you try to convince someone else to not have an abortion, you should not use the possibility of a trauma as a reason without acknowledging that going through with the pregnancy and giving birth could be equally, if not more, traumatizing.



Gaffer Gragz
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07 Feb 2021, 5:39 am

'
You should not use the possibility of a trauma as a reason without acknowledging that going through with the pregnancy and giving birth could be equally, if not more, traumatizing.
'

I can attest it can be more traumatizing, and I'm male. What horrors females throughout time must have felt forced to carry a child not wanted of various reasons is daunting and mind-numbing.

What horrors females throughout time must have felt wishing to carry a child and miscarry of various reasons is almost as daunting and mind-numbing.



Last edited by Gaffer Gragz on 07 Feb 2021, 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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07 Feb 2021, 5:40 am

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
magz wrote:
There is a real problem that women (including my close friends) who experienced miscarriage are denied right to grieve.
If I'm to trust a therapist working with such situations, women who have decided to make an abortion because of a difficult situation suffer from the same - they are denied right to grieve.

This is one of the things that people should keep in mind when they talk about abortion.

You can disagree with people getting an abortion, but you can't deny that the women who have to go through one often grieve. It's still traumatizing for a lot of them and is never an easy or lighthearted decision. Women are very aware they are ending the life of something, even if it's just a zygote or fetus, and no one enjoys having to do that.


That is all true, that said...I would have to admit just for honesty at least right now I feel like I would not grieve if I got an abortion. Not trying to disvalidate but I actively do not want to have children and not sure I'd have any grief of aborting a zygote I think it would be more relief. Cause I am not afraid of like having a child and having to give it up for adoption I am afraid of the going through the pregnancy part and don't even want kids so I am not willing to risk my health to carry a baby to term even if I don't have to keep it. And whilst I feel it should be every womens personal choice I certainly do have some health things that could make pregnancy even riskier for me and well who is anyone else to tell me I have to take that risk. Yeah maybe it is selfish but I don't want to risk dying giving birth(sure that very well may not happen but I don't want the risk whatsoever), and I am not looking to make bravery points with my uterus.


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07 Feb 2021, 12:23 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
magz wrote:
There is a real problem that women (including my close friends) who experienced miscarriage are denied right to grieve.
If I'm to trust a therapist working with such situations, women who have decided to make an abortion because of a difficult situation suffer from the same - they are denied right to grieve.

This is one of the things that people should keep in mind when they talk about abortion.

You can disagree with people getting an abortion, but you can't deny that the women who have to go through one often grieve. It's still traumatizing for a lot of them and is never an easy or lighthearted decision. Women are very aware they are ending the life of something, even if it's just a zygote or fetus, and no one enjoys having to do that.


That is all true, that said...I would have to admit just for honesty at least right now I feel like I would not grieve if I got an abortion. Not trying to disvalidate but I actively do not want to have children and not sure I'd have any grief of aborting a zygote I think it would be more relief. Cause I am not afraid of like having a child and having to give it up for adoption I am afraid of the going through the pregnancy part and don't even want kids so I am not willing to risk my health to carry a baby to term even if I don't have to keep it. And whilst I feel it should be every womens personal choice I certainly do have some health things that could make pregnancy even riskier for me and well who is anyone else to tell me I have to take that risk. Yeah maybe it is selfish but I don't want to risk dying giving birth(sure that very well may not happen but I don't want the risk whatsoever), and I am not looking to make bravery points with my uterus.


I understand the fear of risk but as long as you use birth control and condoms, won't one most likely be fine and not have to worry about it though? Isn't it kind of overanalyzing at that point, thinking what if this happened what if that happened, etc? Shouldn't one just use the protection and don't think too much about a bridge, you are most likely never going to cross?



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07 Feb 2021, 12:37 pm

ironpony wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
magz wrote:
There is a real problem that women (including my close friends) who experienced miscarriage are denied right to grieve.
If I'm to trust a therapist working with such situations, women who have decided to make an abortion because of a difficult situation suffer from the same - they are denied right to grieve.

This is one of the things that people should keep in mind when they talk about abortion.

You can disagree with people getting an abortion, but you can't deny that the women who have to go through one often grieve. It's still traumatizing for a lot of them and is never an easy or lighthearted decision. Women are very aware they are ending the life of something, even if it's just a zygote or fetus, and no one enjoys having to do that.


That is all true, that said...I would have to admit just for honesty at least right now I feel like I would not grieve if I got an abortion. Not trying to disvalidate but I actively do not want to have children and not sure I'd have any grief of aborting a zygote I think it would be more relief. Cause I am not afraid of like having a child and having to give it up for adoption I am afraid of the going through the pregnancy part and don't even want kids so I am not willing to risk my health to carry a baby to term even if I don't have to keep it. And whilst I feel it should be every womens personal choice I certainly do have some health things that could make pregnancy even riskier for me and well who is anyone else to tell me I have to take that risk. Yeah maybe it is selfish but I don't want to risk dying giving birth(sure that very well may not happen but I don't want the risk whatsoever), and I am not looking to make bravery points with my uterus.


I understand the fear of risk but as long as you use birth control and condoms, won't one most likely be fine and not have to worry about it though? Isn't it kind of overanalyzing at that point, thinking what if this happened what if that happened, etc? Shouldn't one just use the protection and don't think too much about a bridge, you are most likely never going to cross?


Birth control is not 100% effective and different methods can have less efficacy than others. What do you do when it does not work?



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07 Feb 2021, 12:46 pm

You can still get pregnancy even if you are on birth control or using condoms. The chances of pregnancy are just less. The older you get, the less chances of a pregnancy. That is why teens get pregnant so easily because they are so fertile. But lot of them don't realize how easy it is because of lack of sex education and they think you have to have it so many times before you are pregnant.


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ironpony
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07 Feb 2021, 12:51 pm

Well everyone I know who got accidentally pregnant, friends throughout the years, I would ask them if they used protection and the answer was always no. So I thought it was quite unlikely if the answer was always no, that protection was not used, over the years it's happened to friends.

Also according to google at least the changes of condoms working are 85%. The chances of the birth control working are 91%.

So if you add these two together, and if the math is correct, then the chances of getting pregnant while using both are only 1.35% chance of pregnancy, because the succcess rate of both added together is 98.65%. That's not so bad for people to have to worry about and focus all one's energy on making it a hot political issue, is it?

Why such a hot issue that only has a 1.35% chance of happening if you take those precautions?



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08 Feb 2021, 3:34 am

^ Condoms probably work the same for everyone if used correctly, making the chance of them failing same to everyone, but that's not the case with the pills. For some women pills work better than others, so some women have a higher chance of getting pregnant even while using the pill. Also, at least the pills I was offered were the kind that's proper working couldn't be guaranteed if one hadn't taken the pill at least ten days straight at the same time. In other words, if one messed up with the timing even once during a ten day period, their chances of getting pregnant would rise a lot even though they use the pill. It sounds easy, but as someone who had timed meds from about as long as I can remember to late teen years, I assure you that taking them at the exact timing is not always easy nor possible.

Also, there are always the cases of rape. Rapists rarely bother with protection.

And changing life situations. Imagine a couple that decide to have a baby, the woman gets pregnant, but then her partner dies in an accident or something, the income drops and the pregnant woman is left mourning. Of course, it is possible to go through pregnancy and childbirth safely in that situation and raise the baby properly, but it can also be too much of a burden to a woman in a bad situation, making abortion the best option in some cases.