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ironpony
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16 Jun 2021, 8:20 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
One thing about the woke generation I do not understand is, is that it seems to have only caught on in English speaking nations, such as US, UK, Canada, Australia, etc.

But nations that do not speak English haven't seem to have caught onto it as much. I cannot stand movies coming out of the US or British TV now, because of all the woke stuff in them, but if you watch European and Asian movies, they are pumping out stories, with no woke politics in them. And Latin American movies haven't seen to have caught on to woke so far either. So it seems that it's only an English speaking nation thing so far, unless I am wrong?


All western nations (including non-English speaking ones) are going through social activism. The environment movement, the #Metoo movement and the George Floyd protests are all heavily protested in western Europe.

Non-western countries tend to be run by governments that do not encourage activism (for example India in another thread bans social media platforms).


Oh okay, but you don't see European nations pumping out woke entertainment compared to American, minus the UK.



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16 Jun 2021, 8:23 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but you don't see European nations pumping out woke entertainment compared to American, minus the UK.


You can't compare the money invested in the entertainment business in the US with the rest of the world.



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16 Jun 2021, 8:31 pm

what's the money have to do with it? it seems that English speaking nations want to pump out a lot of woke entertainment. Are you saying it's because the US has more money that they want to?



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16 Jun 2021, 8:39 pm

ironpony wrote:
what's the money have to do with it? it seems that English speaking nations want to pump out a lot of woke entertainment. Are you saying it's because the US has more money that they want to?


Both...what you call "woke" in Hollywood is governed by the morals and standards of America. For example US movies tend to be much less open about sexuality compared to movies produced in Europe, however independent American film-makers have copied Europeans over the last 30 years as the quality of cinema in Britain, France or Germany often far exceeds the stuff produced in Hollywood.

Where Hollywood wins is with big budget blockbusters like the Avengers, Avatar etc where they can pump more money into getting a better cast and more special effects but the stories are often not that great unless they involve British authors like JK Rowling, JR Tolkein.

I never found the stories from GG Martin or Suzanne Collins for Game of Thrones or Hunger Games very original as they are based on other works or (in the case of Game of thrones) European War of the Roses.

The one sole exception is George Lucas who'se imagination created Star Wars. Lucas was never labelled woke whereas interestingly Disney has been, Has this impacted on Disney's bottom line? nope....you may want think about that.



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16 Jun 2021, 9:38 pm

Oh well I'm not saying every movie to come out of Hollwood for the last few years is woke, but so many have been lately, and the problem with that, is they want to play it safe and not take any risks, where as European and Asian movies take a lot more risks, which can make for a more entertaining movie in my eyes. I find some of the recent woke movies too be too preachy to the audience, where as European and Asian movies, haven't preached to me so far, so I guess I like that better. I also feel that Hollywood has become very prudish lately, as a result, and I do not like stories that deal with prudish themes.

And if Hollywood has more money than Asia and Europe, I think they could use it to make riskier movies. The European and Asian markets seem satisfied with their customers, so I feel that Hollywood can do it too.



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17 Jun 2021, 1:41 am

ironpony wrote:
I find some of the recent woke movies too be too preachy to the audience, where as European and Asian movies, haven't preached to me so far, so I guess I like that better. .


Can you give me an example?



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17 Jun 2021, 9:14 am

Well I try to avoid movies I hear are woke usually, but one example I can think of is Black Panther. The movie has these themes about how black people are treated all over the world and characters wanting to put a stop to it, and it just felt forced and shoehorned in, and I thought this was supppose to be a superhero movie. And that is what woke is, shoehorning your politics onto a story that is not about that.

That's one example off the top of my head, but I usually try to avoid these types of movies or TV shows. The new Charlies's Angels movie is also one I just thought of as well as the last Terminator movie. They kill off a major character in Terminator series in an effort to shoehorn in female empowerment, and althought I like female empowerment, depending on how it's done, they just did it in the most forced way here I felt.



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17 Jun 2021, 12:09 pm


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17 Jun 2021, 12:16 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well I try to avoid movies I hear are woke usually, but one example I can think of is Black Panther. The movie has these themes about how black people are treated all over the world and characters wanting to put a stop to it, and it just felt forced and shoehorned in, and I thought this was supppose to be a superhero movie. And that is what woke is, shoehorning your politics onto a story that is not about that.

That's one example off the top of my head, but I usually try to avoid these types of movies or TV shows. The new Charlies's Angels movie is also one I just thought of as well as the last Terminator movie. They kill off a major character in Terminator series in an effort to shoehorn in female empowerment, and althought I like female empowerment, depending on how it's done, they just did it in the most forced way here I felt.



and Sarah Connor in the older Terminator movies was never weak.

Another example is Miss Marvel, the « Muslim superhero ».

I mean why a Muslim Superhero? Is Captain America or Spiderman the Christian superhero? They could just say she’s originally from the middle east.

Superhero comics never brought up religions and never told about the superheroes’ faiths, so I find this character so stupid.


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17 Jun 2021, 4:42 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Another example is Miss Marvel, the « Muslim superhero ».


Huh?



cyberdad
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17 Jun 2021, 4:44 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well I try to avoid movies I hear are woke usually, but one example I can think of is Black Panther. The movie has these themes about how black people are treated all over the world and characters wanting to put a stop to it, and it just felt forced and shoehorned in, and I thought this was supppose to be a superhero movie. And that is what woke is, shoehorning your politics onto a story that is not about that.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't black panther written by two white men? Stan Lee and Jack Kirby?

Their plotline draws inspiration from the actual rise of the real black panther movement in America in the 1950s/60s



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17 Jun 2021, 10:06 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well I try to avoid movies I hear are woke usually, but one example I can think of is Black Panther. The movie has these themes about how black people are treated all over the world and characters wanting to put a stop to it, and it just felt forced and shoehorned in, and I thought this was supppose to be a superhero movie. And that is what woke is, shoehorning your politics onto a story that is not about that.

That's one example off the top of my head, but I usually try to avoid these types of movies or TV shows. The new Charlies's Angels movie is also one I just thought of as well as the last Terminator movie. They kill off a major character in Terminator series in an effort to shoehorn in female empowerment, and althought I like female empowerment, depending on how it's done, they just did it in the most forced way here I felt.



and Sarah Connor in the older Terminator movies was never weak.

Another example is Miss Marvel, the « Muslim superhero ».

I mean why a Muslim Superhero? Is Captain America or Spiderman the Christian superhero? They could just say she’s originally from the middle east.

Superhero comics never brought up religions and never told about the superheroes’ faiths, so I find this character so stupid.


No I am not saying that she is weak, but killing off a major male character from two previous movies, came off as woke, and other reviewers of the movie felt this way too when it was released.



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17 Jun 2021, 10:07 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well I try to avoid movies I hear are woke usually, but one example I can think of is Black Panther. The movie has these themes about how black people are treated all over the world and characters wanting to put a stop to it, and it just felt forced and shoehorned in, and I thought this was supppose to be a superhero movie. And that is what woke is, shoehorning your politics onto a story that is not about that.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't black panther written by two white men? Stan Lee and Jack Kirby?

Their plotline draws inspiration from the actual rise of the real black panther movement in America in the 1950s/60s


Well I don't think it matters what race the writers are. A movie can still be woke if written by white people. But why does their plotline draw inspiration from that, when it's suppose to be a superhero movie? Just felt like forced woke themes to me, forced onto a superhero movie.



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17 Jun 2021, 11:01 pm

ironpony wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well I try to avoid movies I hear are woke usually, but one example I can think of is Black Panther. The movie has these themes about how black people are treated all over the world and characters wanting to put a stop to it, and it just felt forced and shoehorned in, and I thought this was supppose to be a superhero movie. And that is what woke is, shoehorning your politics onto a story that is not about that.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't black panther written by two white men? Stan Lee and Jack Kirby?

Their plotline draws inspiration from the actual rise of the real black panther movement in America in the 1950s/60s


Well I don't think it matters what race the writers are. A movie can still be woke if written by white people. But why does their plotline draw inspiration from that, when it's suppose to be a superhero movie? Just felt like forced woke themes to me, forced onto a superhero movie.


You are missing the point, the storyline for black panther was written in 1972, many years before the "woke" era we are living in now.

The comics were around earlier

Image



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17 Jun 2021, 11:04 pm

Well I cannot judge the comments and haven't read them, I can only go by the movie themselves. But I also felt the new Charlie's Angels movie went woke, and the original TV show is from the 70s as well. Just because something came out before the woke era, doesn't mean you cannot make it woke later on.



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17 Jun 2021, 11:23 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well I cannot judge the comments and haven't read them, I can only go by the movie themselves. But I also felt the new Charlie's Angels movie went woke, and the original TV show is from the 70s as well. Just because something came out before the woke era, doesn't mean you cannot make it woke later on.


Well...I guess there's some logic to that. I tend to think that market forces dictate whether what is perceived as "woke" is commercially risky or not. For example the Hunger Games was labelled "woke" by fans because of they claimed that producers were shoving diversity down their throats. Same with Disney's star wars trilogy which had women in lead roles that irked the fans. Obviously both franchises enjoyed box office success regardless,

Same with Black panther, it was a box office smash owing to drawing in audiences who might not have otherwise watched Marvel.