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funeralxempire
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23 Jun 2021, 6:45 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well just because I used Charlie's Angels as an example, that doesn't mean it's a good one. I just used the recent movie as going woke, compared to the old series. But why not watch a better movie with a sexualized female character?


Were any of them good? I thought the point was the jiggling and without that element it's not worth revisiting when that baggage can be left in the past with a new show with a new title.


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cyberdad
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23 Jun 2021, 6:47 pm

ironpony wrote:
]But why not watch a better movie with a sexualized female character?


Tomb Raider?

Atomic Blonde?



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23 Jun 2021, 6:55 pm

How about Goldeneye or Haywire, if you haven't seen those? I'll try to think back to something better.



cyberdad
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23 Jun 2021, 7:00 pm

Easy! in the science-fiction and criminal drama genres there's plenty of examples where the lead female cast is a kick-ass hot babe



Last edited by cyberdad on 23 Jun 2021, 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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23 Jun 2021, 7:14 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
No, but it is probably more implicit than overt.

As I've already stated several times, the preferences and POV of white cishet men is baked into our culture to the point that it's taken for granted that it's "normal," and anything that doesn't appeal to white cishet males is "abnormal."


Was Gillian Anderson's role as Dr Dana Scully also sexualised? I always thought her little outfits, pouting and expressions were quite hot



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23 Jun 2021, 8:14 pm

Well the female characters in Sex and the City are also sexualized and that show had a huge female audience fanbase, so is sexualizing the characters sexist, if women like the show?



funeralxempire
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23 Jun 2021, 8:35 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well the female characters in Sex and the City are also sexualized and that show had a huge female audience fanbase, so is sexualizing the characters sexist, if women like the show?


It's largely delivered from a female perspective to a female audience though, right? Clearly they handle the issue in a way that isn't viewed as problematic by it's audience.

So did Girls, that HBO show.

There's ways that sexualizing female characters can be done in a way that's not viewed as exploitative or problematic, it's just that when it's done badly there's backlash. What people consider badly or problematic will vary but in general making sexualized female characters that resonate with a female audiences so they become invested in the character and their exploits is less likely to be viewed as problematic than making sexualized female characters for the male audience to fantasize about having relations with.


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23 Jun 2021, 10:17 pm

Oh okay. When Scarlet Johannson recently said that she felt her character Black Widow was to sexualized, how was her character sexualized badly compared to The Sex and the City characters, especially since those characters sexuality was explored more so even?



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23 Jun 2021, 10:51 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Women being on display as nothing but "tits and ass" is still "political," it's just politics that straight men enjoy.


Well...if you're gonna call that aspect of the old Charlies' Angels show "political" then it was "political" in the exact opposite way that IronPony is griping about the New CA being. It was not the equivalent of Woke of its time. It was UNwoke ( or asleep?) of that time- because the T and A was accepted (though most critics of both genders looked down on it as sexploitation even then, and some on both the religious right and the Feminist left were actively hostile to the show even then).



funeralxempire
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23 Jun 2021, 11:05 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. When Scarlet Johannson recently said that she felt her character Black Widow was to sexualized, how was her character sexualized badly compared to The Sex and the City characters, especially since those characters sexuality was explored more so even?


Never seen it so I can't address it in any detail.


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23 Jun 2021, 11:28 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well the female characters in Sex and the City are also sexualized and that show had a huge female audience fanbase, so is sexualizing the characters sexist, if women like the show?


It's largely delivered from a female perspective to a female audience though, right? Clearly they handle the issue in a way that isn't viewed as problematic by it's audience.

So did Girls, that HBO show.

There's ways that sexualizing female characters can be done in a way that's not viewed as exploitative or problematic, it's just that when it's done badly there's backlash. What people consider badly or problematic will vary but in general making sexualized female characters that resonate with a female audiences so they become invested in the character and their exploits is less likely to be viewed as problematic than making sexualized female characters for the male audience to fantasize about having relations with.


Oh okay, well when people talk about how they do not like female sexualized characters because they have gotten out of hand, what counts as gotten out of hand? How are female sexualized characters in action movies, and comic books, done worse than Sex and the City for example? Because Sex and the City is a drama, so female sexualization is allowed on a drama, compared to other genres?



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24 Jun 2021, 9:01 am

cyberdad wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
No, but it is probably more implicit than overt.

As I've already stated several times, the preferences and POV of white cishet men is baked into our culture to the point that it's taken for granted that it's "normal," and anything that doesn't appeal to white cishet males is "abnormal."


Was Gillian Anderson's role as Dr Dana Scully also sexualised? I always thought her little outfits, pouting and expressions were quite hot

I don’t think so, that was not point of her character. Those little outfits were in fashion during the 90s. She was very reserved, not come hither, or use double entendres. Every character is going to be attractive to someone. Is every character played by an attractive actor sexualized?


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24 Jun 2021, 8:09 pm

Well one thing I don't like about movies today, is that female character seem more under pressure to be 'politically correct'. But this makes for less interesting flaws in my opinion.

For example, in the movie Goldeneye there is a female character who likes to seduce men and kill them during sex. But nowadays a character like that is considered too sexualized or too politically incorrect. Movies having to shift to modern politics feel too clean I would say.



funeralxempire
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24 Jun 2021, 8:24 pm

ironpony wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well the female characters in Sex and the City are also sexualized and that show had a huge female audience fanbase, so is sexualizing the characters sexist, if women like the show?


It's largely delivered from a female perspective to a female audience though, right? Clearly they handle the issue in a way that isn't viewed as problematic by it's audience.

So did Girls, that HBO show.

There's ways that sexualizing female characters can be done in a way that's not viewed as exploitative or problematic, it's just that when it's done badly there's backlash. What people consider badly or problematic will vary but in general making sexualized female characters that resonate with a female audiences so they become invested in the character and their exploits is less likely to be viewed as problematic than making sexualized female characters for the male audience to fantasize about having relations with.


Oh okay, well when people talk about how they do not like female sexualized characters because they have gotten out of hand, what counts as gotten out of hand? How are female sexualized characters in action movies, and comic books, done worse than Sex and the City for example? Because Sex and the City is a drama, so female sexualization is allowed on a drama, compared to other genres?


I don't think it's the genre, it's the depiction. On Sex and the City they're more than just fan service.


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cyberdad
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24 Jun 2021, 8:39 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
No, but it is probably more implicit than overt.

As I've already stated several times, the preferences and POV of white cishet men is baked into our culture to the point that it's taken for granted that it's "normal," and anything that doesn't appeal to white cishet males is "abnormal."


Was Gillian Anderson's role as Dr Dana Scully also sexualised? I always thought her little outfits, pouting and expressions were quite hot

I don’t think so, that was not point of her character. Those little outfits were in fashion during the 90s. She was very reserved, not come hither, or use double entendres. Every character is going to be attractive to someone. Is every character played by an attractive actor sexualized?


Ummm have you watched x-files? Dana Scully was the blatant object of sexual desire by the three lone gunmen who were regular cast in all 11 seasons. Her doey eyes and pouting were definitely designed to be seductive (not unlike the subtle female sexual signals seen in 1940s/50s actresses).

I also recall her using double entendres but I agree her character was mostly in work mode. Gillian Anderson has acknowledged her character became a reluctant sex symbol, the evolution of her character until she eventually slept with Mulder was leading to this.

Angela Lansbury's female role in Murder she wrote and the actress who played Miss Marple in Agatha Christie moves/TV were an exception but by in large, women in crime dramas are young and hot,



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24 Jun 2021, 11:09 pm

I didn't think that Scully was sexualized just because other character wanted her. I thought that other characters wanteed her in spite of her character not being sexualized, unless I am wrong?