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kraftiekortie
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07 May 2021, 9:30 pm

actually....all history is useful.

One must learn from history.



funeralxempire
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07 May 2021, 9:56 pm

ironpony wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Idaho governor signs bill to ban critical race theory from being taught in schools
Quote:
Idaho’s governor, Brad Little, has a bill signed into law that aims to restrict critical race theory from being taught as a subject in schools and universities.

The bill, H 377, prevents teachers from “indoctrinating” students into belief systems that claim that members of any race, sex, religion, ethnicity or national origin are inferior or superior to other groups. Signed into law last week, H 377 also makes it illegal to make students “affirm, adopt or adhere to” beliefs that members of these groups are today responsible for past actions of the groups to which they claim to belong.


Tennessee bans public schools from teaching critical race theory amid national debate
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The Tennessee General Assembly has banned the teaching of critical race theory, passing a law at the very end of the legislative session to withhold funding from public schools that teach about white privilege.

Republicans in the House made the legislation a last-minute priority, introducing provisions that ban schools from instructing students that one race bears responsibility for the past actions against another, that the United States is fundamentally racist or that a person is inherently privileged or oppressive due to their race.


What is the point of learning about these things in school. I mean it just doesn't seem as educational, to help kids get jobs, the same way writing, math, chemistry, science, would.

Unless I am wrong?


Shouldn't school serve more purpose than to just prepare one to get a job? Teaching life skills like cooking, managing one's finances, etc should probably be part of the agenda, at the bare minimum.


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cyberdad
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08 May 2021, 2:17 am

There's been an ongoing debate what the purpose of education is when graduates have to be retrained anyway.

Apparently intellectual stimulation/curiosity died when universities became corporatised.



cyberdad
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08 May 2021, 2:18 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
actually....all history is useful.

One must learn from history.


I know Kraftie, I was just posing a question to ironman...ironpony



ironpony
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08 May 2021, 7:17 pm

The thing I don't understand is where did this woke generation come from and what is their motive? A whole bunch of people all of a sudden decided to get angry about these issues mostly in entertainment, at the same time?



cyberdad
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08 May 2021, 7:31 pm

ironpony wrote:
The thing I don't understand is where did this woke generation come from and what is their motive? A whole bunch of people all of a sudden decided to get angry about these issues mostly in entertainment, at the same time?


All good questions. It's a combination of progressives who have good intentions in re-engineering society to be more socially inclusive but their responses/reactions to offensive behaviour (that are normal among conservatives) trigger conservatives who are uncomfortable about opening their doors/hearts to minority groups and so claim their views are being cancelled.

It's really as simple as that.

In some cases the response from progressives requires reflection and discussion but conservatives are so incensed they refuse to even entertain or have a rationale discussion why certain twitter posts or public statements by high profile people might be offensive.

I'll give you one simple example. Many members on WP think using the r-word us ok if they are saying something about themselves. So if I say it's offensive they will claim that I am trying to cancel them.

It's never that simple. Those using the word likely have never been called that word. When they use it on this forum (and I have seen one parent using it on the parent forum) they offend members who have bullied using this word and parents/family of those children. For survivors of bullying when they hear somebody whom they respect use the r-word (even as a joke) it will trigger a kind of PTSD. I also feel the same way about the n-word and think it doesn't give the group ownership of the word but perpetuates the pain of those who have been victims.

So the "woke" progressives have a legit argument but in their enthusiasm to re-shape society they might have to choose their battles more carefully.



ironpony
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08 May 2021, 8:20 pm

Oh okay. Well I am all about having rational discussions and wanting to be open minded, but the thing I hate about the woke generation is they are very pro-censorship, and they want to go back and recut and sensor old movies, old music, and all these things, and I don't think there should be a right to do that. There are a lot of benefits that the woke generation wants for society, which are good, I just don't like the censorship.

But what I don't understand about a lot of people in society, is that they are pro-benefits, but also pro-censorship. And a lot of people who are anti-censorship, are also antibenefits. What I don't understand is why can't a lot of people choose to be pro-benefits and anti-censorship, but so many people feel if you are pro for one, you have to be pro for the other, and that I think is very closeminded, for a group of people that want to be open minded.

Why do these woke people believe in benefits and restrictions, rather than just benefits only, no restrictions?



cyberdad
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08 May 2021, 8:41 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. Well I am all about having rational discussions and wanting to be open minded, but the thing I hate about the woke generation is they are very pro-censorship, and they want to go back and recut and sensor old movies, old music, and all these things, and I don't think there should be a right to do that. There are a lot of benefits that the woke generation wants for society, which are good, I just don't like the censorship.

But what I don't understand about a lot of people in society, is that they are pro-benefits, but also pro-censorship. And a lot of people who are anti-censorship, are also antibenefits. What I don't understand is why can't a lot of people choose to be pro-benefits and anti-censorship, but so many people feel if you are pro for one, you have to be pro for the other, and that I think is very closeminded, for a group of people that want to be open minded.

Why do these woke people believe in benefits and restrictions, rather than just benefits only, no restrictions?


Yep these can be valid points Ironpony but there is nuance. Each thing where there is a call to censor something should be handled on a case by case basis in calm rationale discussion. That's how a rationale society should deal with public responses. Not trial by media, or throwing labels like "cancel culture" or the interference by government when its run by narrow minded fascists like Trump.

Keep in mind that "woke" is a pretty stupid term as there is a lack of intersectionality in many of those calling for the cancellation of something, For example many of the people involved in climate action are also social conservatives, Just because you attack attempts to silence discussion on global warming doesn't mean you are vested in social equality. Another example are animal liberation people who attempt to ban meat consumption but have little or no interest in other issues. Asian people who are now protesting against "Asian hate" during COVID are the same people who kept silent during the BLM protests, There is a lack of intersectionality where people calling for cancellation of something are often vested in 1-2 issues but don't really care about people or issues outside of their own special interests.



ironpony
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08 May 2021, 10:22 pm

I can see that, and people should of course be interested in things outside of their interests. But as for having a calm rational discussion about censoring, I don't think anything should be censored at all.

And I don't think that this whole cancel culture that the "woke" generation started should exist either, because it just seems to wreak of that same facism that progressive people were trying to get away from. It feels hypocritical, like you want to give to the poor, yet you are willing to rob banks to do it, if that makes sense as an anology. I just feel that we should care about other groups of people, without having to censor, silence, or cancel anyone's else's things or lives, if that makes sense.



kraftiekortie
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08 May 2021, 10:26 pm

“Woke” people frequently overdo it in a self-righteous way.

Censorship—whether from fascistic or “woke” intent—is wrong.



ironpony
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08 May 2021, 10:59 pm

Well another thing is, does the 'woke' group of people, majority wise, actually care, or are they just angry misenthropes, as lot of them seem to give off the impression of...



funeralxempire
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08 May 2021, 11:25 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well another thing is, does the 'woke' group of people, majority wise, actually care, or are they just angry misenthropes, as lot of them seem to give off the impression of...


How exactly is fighting for a more egalitarian society likely to be motivated by misanthropy? :?


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ironpony
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08 May 2021, 11:30 pm

Oh well because their intentions do not seem egalitarian at all. They want to censor this, censor that, cancel this, cancel that, and bring everyone under their own thought control, which does not seem egalitarian, at least to me. So the intention that they say they are for, just doesn't seem to show in their actions I felt. They say they want to create a society where people are all judged fairly, but at the same time, in their actions, they consider themselves the thought police and any other way of thinking should be censored/canceled.



cyberdad
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09 May 2021, 4:41 am

ironpony wrote:
Well another thing is, does the 'woke' group of people, majority wise, actually care, or are they just angry misenthropes, as lot of them seem to give off the impression of...


There are a mix of people lumped into the group conveniently pigeonholed by the right wingers.

Some do promote censoring the likes of Jordan Peterson, Milo Yannopoloulos or Ben Shapiro, a few try and censor old movies. I'm not one of those necessarily who want to censor the above II'd rather these types don't hide in the shadows) but personalities and media that choose to publicise offensive statements, behaviour or acts risk the wrath of decent human beings who have little tolerance for innapropriate statements that intend to cause psychological harm.



kraftiekortie
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09 May 2021, 5:36 am

I wonder how many women were offended by Prince Charming’s wake-up kiss to Snow White back in the day?



cyberdad
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09 May 2021, 6:52 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I wonder how many women were offended by Prince Charming’s wake-up kiss to Snow White back in the day?


It was considered romantic