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A Gardener
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06 Mar 2021, 1:04 am

aghogday wrote:
Most of my Life; i was Uncomfortable Being in
my Own Skin, Just Like my Mind Was Separated


Maybe you were born to go inward.. rather than outward.. Every one has a different path. When I was living in a hostel in London.. I was spending a lot of time meditating.. and after a couple of hours.. I needed to rest.. so I lay down on the bed and fell asleep. I woke up to find myself standing in the room.. looking down at my sleeping body.. I looked around.. the sun was shining in the park outside my window.. every thing looked normal.. apart from I was in two places at the same time.. I remember thinking.. this is strange ( I could think clearly) .. so I squeezed my arm to see it it felt real.. and it felt numb.. like I had pins and needles.. Then I noticed my body on the bed moved slightly.. it looked like it was going to wake up.. and I wondered what happens if it wakes up and looks at me.. I felt that was just too weird so I got onto the bed and felt myself slip back into my body.. and then I immediately opened my eyes.. and remembered every thing clearly. My MIND HAD DEFINITLETY SEPARATED FROM ME THEN.. and it was an experience that left me with something to think about..

I have never been the least bit interested in out of the body experiences.. I had vaguely heard of it.. but it had never interested me in the least.. so I was surprised that I had had one.

I heard ANXIETY is a normal condition for people with autism.. and I get anxiety over all kinds of things.. Sometimes I wish things would stop changing and remain the same.. but I manage. Traveling is stressful but I enjoy it.. I enjoy being somewhere else.. that I have never been before.. My parents moved around a lot when I was a kid.. and I still enjoy going to live in different places.. I moved here - Limburg - just over a year ago.. because it reminds me of England with its hilly landscape.. and lots of castles.. historic towns.. Most of the land.. for miles around.. is national park.. forests.. and nature reserves.. a wonderful place to retire.


aghogday wrote:
Thanks Again for Sharing; It's all interesting to me;

Thanks For Actually Philosophizing About Life; It's

Pretty Rare that Anyone actually Individually Expresses

Philosophies Here; I'm More into Reaching Within And Pulling

New Ideas Out; Inspired by Other Ideas of Course; That's Philosophy
to me


For me.. philosophy is a means to bring together many good ideas.. that are at present.. existing separately.. I WANT TO SEE THE BIG PICTURE.. NOT THE FRAGMENTS.. Science provides the detail in fragments.. while philosophy can take all the fragments.. that are existing separately.. and attempt to organized them better.. and bring them together.. in order to discover the BIG picture science is painting. Philosophy has the freedom to speculate.. and that is important because science has its limits.. where only speculation based on evidence.. can go beyond them. Philosophy and science are like lovers.. they need each other to exist..

Thinking this way.. about how everything connects up.. brought me to conclude.. that all the fragments that presently make up quantum physics and relativity.. WAVES.. PARTICLES.. ETC.. INCLUDING CONSCIOUSNESS.. could be better represented MORE SIMPLY.. as FIELD ACTIVITY.

Meaning we can reduce our entire understanding of astro physics down to a SINGLE FIELD.. MEANING.. ALL our other field concepts.. like gravity.. electro magnetism.. nuclear.. Higg's.. even our field of consciousness.. etc.. are simply diversifications arising in this single field - I call IT - THE PRIMARY FIELD.. because it is the most fundamental aspect of existence. It is complicated to explain in detail though.. because it involves presenting the EVIDENCE.. and how I go about understanding things.. some of which can sound very strange.. like the odd practice of the re normalisation of Infinities.. and the FACT that NOTHING is not NOTHING anymore..

I speak of dormant energy.. but.. in physics (for more normal people).. this is referred to as POTENTIAL ENERGY.. but dormant or potential.. its the same thing.. to me.

MY problem is.. no one understands what I'm talking about.. (apart from my best friend.. because I have had plenty of time to explain it to him.. in detail.. and show him how OVER-WHELMING the evidence is)..

ALL MY HARD WORK.. GETS IGNORED.. SO.. ITS "NO ROOM AT THE INN" ... AGAIN..

I can't think mathematically.. so I think in MY OWN SYMBOLS.. AND PICTURES.. guided by a careful study of the most interesting concepts in physics.. In my imagination.. I go outside of our universe.. and envision a multiverse.. where universes continually are born.. and die.. as they arise into EXISTENCE.. and return to the Primary Field via entropy. in AN ETERNAL PROCESS.. THAT HAS NEITHER BEGINNING.. NOR END.. and IT is always present.. IT IS THE THREATRE.. WHERE UNIVERSES COME AND GO.............. CHURNING OUT DRAMA AND MEMORIES.. IN A NEVER-ENDING CREATIVE PROCESS..

HOWEVER - When these universes gradually return (ENTROPHY).. their energy does not disappear.. instead it becomes dormant.. (like consciousness becomes dormant while we sleep.. and IT reappears.. when we awake..) .. while we sleep consciousness only exists as a potential.. BUT IT IS NOT NOTHING... NOTHINGNESS DOES NOT EXIST.. NOTHINGNESS IS JUST AN ILLUSION.... EVERYTHING IS SOMETHING.. EVEN WHEN WE CANNOT DETECT IT WITH OUR SENSES.

MY PRIMARY FIELD THEORY IS A PHILOSOPICAL WORK IN PROGRESS.. .. because it will take years before the final idea emerges.. complete with a wealth of EVIDENCE...... I must finish it before I die.

Here it is again.. but under another name.. Pauli called it.. THE FIELD OF CREATIVE PROCESSES.. others have called it GOD.. or BRAHMAN.. but.. in the language of physics.. I call it - The Primary Field.. a fitting term for a philosophical concept.. Words like - GOD - are for the poets..

TO QUOTE - "And while the power of fascination emanating from Pauli's analyses of physical problems was admittedly due in some measure to the detailed and penetrating clarity of his formulations, the rest was derived from a constant contact with THE FIELD OF CREATIVE PROCESSES, for which no rational formulation - AS YET - exists.”

This quote below is Einstein speaking to Schwinger.. (one of the founders of quantum field theory).. about what he saw as a problem of having six quantum fields…. instead of just ONE.......... (Primary) - Field

“This is indeed a beautiful theory, but it seems there are six separate fields – four force fields and two matter fields. As you know, my hope was to find a SINGLE FIELD field that comprises all forces and matter. This theory of yours does not meet that objective.”
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the part of my story when I went to live in Mexico.. and later.. .. Germany.. then.. back to London.
http://theapocatastasis.homestead.com/M ... 5003014691


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"And it came to be pretty in its greatness, in the length of its foliage, for its root system proved to be over many waters." - Ezekiel 31.7


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06 Mar 2021, 5:57 am

A Gardener wrote:
aghogday wrote:

(How God Is Described in the
Gospel of Thomas as Metaphor)

I can't comment on the original topic.. in spite of it sounding interesting.. I tried the vid.. but it is toooooo complicated from my brain to process at the age of 70.. BUT.. for the sake of conversation.. Yes.. I agree.. metaphor is an accurate description of what the word GOD is.. both in the Bible.. and the Gospel of Thomas.. God is a word that belongs more in the realms of poetry.. than science.. In science I would refer to GOD as a PRIMARY FIELD.. IN WHICH AN INFINITE NUMBER OF UNIVERSES CONTINUALLY COME AND GO.. and waves and particles.. even consciousness.. are simply..... FIELD ACTIVITY..

Last year I was banned and my 4 posts quickly deleted from 2 separate atheist forums.. for daring to say this.. They just wanted me gone.. and started to attack my grammar.. my use of caps to emphasize.. and my frequent use of quotes.. that I use to support my argument.. They did not even want to discuss what I was saying... they only wanted to discredit me.. that is playing dirty.. They made it clear.. that because I was different.. they didn't want me around..

Probably because if - GOD - is to be understood metaphorically.... then.. there is nothing left to dis-believe in.. NO SUPERNATURAL BEINGS TO MAKE FUN OFF.. and if there is nothing supernatural about the Bible.. all those well worn arguments the atheists make.. Have gone down the drain.. All their efforts have been for nothing.. Maybe it was because they fell asleep.. during their poetry class.. so they confused symbolic language with the supernatural.. and metaphors with miracles..

I also showed them convincing proof that the miracles stories were intended to be understood as allegory and poetic metaphor.. etc... by taking verses from all over the Bible.. as proof.. But when I made it clear that the New Testament of Jesus made the Old Testament obsolete.. along with the OT God concept.. (something that is easy to prove).. they couldn't take any more of me.. and threw me out into the street.. (metaphorically speaking.. or course.)

"Certainly, then, there occurs a setting aside of the proceeding commandment on account of its weakness and ineffectiveness.” - ”For if the first covenant had been faultless. No place would have been sought for a second." - "But their mental powers were dulled. For to this present day the same veil remains uplifted at the reading of the old covenant, because it is DONE AWAY WITH by means of Christ. In fact, down till today whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their hearts."

And.. if you are an atheist.. you don't want to hear anything that shatters your belief..

I was thrown out.. probably.. because - IF - all the things I was saying were true.. (which they were) ...then.. the last 2 or 3 thousand years of organized religion.. along with the atheist movement.. (who all got in bed with the literal Christians.. by sharing their literal SUPERNATURAL understanding.. with out questioning it.. and without doubt...) was nothing but a huge mistake.... that arose from poor reading comprehension..

Of course... When a poet says.. "God speaks to me"... He doesn't intend for it to be taken literally.. He's a POET.. AND POETS CAN SAY THINGS LIKE THAT.

Reading thinkers like Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell.. cured my own atheist delusions.. that I went through during my youth.. since the age of 7....... They really talked a lot of sense.. and their logic won me over..

“Every myth is psychologically symbolic. Its narratives and images are to be read, therefore, not literally, but as metaphors. Half the people in the world think that the metaphors of their religious traditions, for example, are facts. And the other half contends that they are not facts at all.

As a result we have people who consider themselves believers because they accept metaphors as facts, and we have others who classify themselves as atheists because they think religious metaphors are lies.”

"God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that.” - Joseph Campbell, Thou Art That: Transforming Religious Metaphor

What do you think is fair to expect when you go to a religious site and argue against their beliefs? Usually happens what happened to you on the atheist site. Some people do attack grammar. Do you actually expect them to think you're one of them and accept you as a member on the site? Tough chance depending on who leads.

Im bothered by the way you discredit atheists and fit them into a label that you believe universally true. 'you don't want to hear something that shatters your belief' maybe I want to, it's just that you can't come up with it because it's simply not real and not convincing.

It might've convinced some the same way you seek to understand the Bible turning words in whatever way just so you can defend what it says while no one can truly say what those metaphors should mean. Who decides it? Why can't god just have a normal relationship with you based on understanding instead of punishing and killing your sons who are actually not to be held responsible in today's world views? The answer is because he doesn't exist. It's just people believing whatever says in this ancient book without even knowing what it means. Who are you to interpret god's word however you wish, anyway? That's you putting words in his mouth.

God is nothing more but the creation of old times, supporting slavery even in new testament and rising over multiple previous gods making it a sin and supporting just one god, effectively discrediting the pattern of previous beliefs.

Which religious belief is true anyway? There are tons of religions and people within them, meaning all the others are actually wrong. They're all ancient myth like you said that keeps people blind and supposedly calm on massive political changes.


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06 Mar 2021, 12:02 pm

[quote="A Gardener"]

Here it is again.. but under another name.. Pauli called it.. THE FIELD OF CREATIVE PROCESSES.. others have called it GOD.. or BRAHMAN.. but.. in the language of physics.. I call it - The Primary Field.. a fitting term for a philosophical concept.. Words like - GOD - are for the poets..

TO QUOTE - "And while the power of fascination emanating from Pauli's analyses of physical problems was admittedly due in some measure to the detailed and penetrating clarity of his formulations, the rest was derived from a constant contact with THE FIELD OF CREATIVE PROCESSES, for which no rational formulation - AS YET - exists.”

This quote below is Einstein speaking to Schwinger.. (one of the founders of quantum field theory).. about what he saw as a problem of having six quantum fields…. instead of just ONE.......... (Primary) - Field

“This is indeed a beautiful theory, but it seems there are six separate fields – four force fields and two matter fields. As you know, my hope was to find a SINGLE FIELD field that comprises all forces and matter. This theory of yours does not meet that objective.”
/quote]





SMiLes Life is A Story Composed of Words And Of
Course the Meaning of the Story Is Beyond All Form

As Essence Is Birthed

In EYes of Creation Us

Beyond All Measure

As Essence Comes

To Breathe As

Form

To Touch
As Essence Sees

Smiles True For Poet's
'God' iS A Word to Be...

Smiles True for
Literalists
Words

Like

'God' Are Only Defined
And Labeled As Such As Form...

'God' Is A Word Where A Tongue is Trapped
on the Roof of A Mouth True A Noun i surely

Am Not Muslim And No Other Religion or God as Defined

Yet the Word 'Allah' At Least Lets A Tongue Escape from
The Roof of A Mouth Funny Little Synchronicities For It's

True At Least in the

Muslim Religion

'God' has

The Ability

to Escape from
The Confines of the
Idol Form of one "Literal Man"...

Art Attempts to Relate Essence Poetry
Puts Forth An Effort in Words as Literal

Becomes More Figurative For Colors New

to Perhaps Spark Visions Renewed or Never

Seen Before of Course Beyond Organs of Eyes or Ears

And All that is Labeled Now or May Be Otherwise Defined....

It's Very Clear that You 'See' 'God' Beyond 'This or That' Form

'One Field' Is a Good Metaphor As Long as We Realize not unlike

'That Baseball Movie' We aRe The Only One Who Ever Comes to Play

To Make Our Reality As Is

We Interact With

'The others'

And Perhaps

They Will Play or Not

Yet What is Important

Is Our 'Field of Dreams' We

Build Continues to Expand As

Chambers of Nautilus Shells Do

Until What is Left is a Shell of Our Soul

To Pick Up on a Beach or Perhaps hehe in

A Fossil

oF A Record

'Book' Left Online

Just Another Message

In a Bottle For Someone to Breathe

The Thing About Imagination and Creativity

An Ethereal Eternal Love it is Always Changing

Beyond All Forms Set in Concrete And Literal Ways

Before For It is True It is the Concrete That is Illusion And Change

For New

Colors

Renewed

That is the Reality

of 'This Field of Dreams'

Now Beyond All Measure Set in Stone...

Yet Again This Only Comes From my Field of Dreams....

If i look Up Now i may See A Living Tree or Lamp i didn't

Plan it Yet it exists as is as Science Shows We aRe aLL Fractals

Of All That is THere is Truly No Other Wise place to look for the all in all

Yet this UniVerse Within We Continue to BREaTHE ALL for the Hell and Heaven to be i am.... now

Smiles my FRiEnD It Was practically A Miracle i ever Became Any Kind of Story Teller as True my

Mind is Born More of Numbers the place i excelled the Most in Systemizing Ways And True

There Was a Movie Called 'A Beautiful Mind' Where if One Stays in Numbers too Long

As Spoon-Fed Life A Soul Will Do Whatever it Takes to Be Born As ColorS AGaiN Alive

The Story of Your Life Has Many Colors And As the Loving Stories of Human Life Breathe

A Human Without A Muse of at least Unrequited Love May Not Find Colors of Soul to Relate

True All the Colors of Your Unrequited Love come through As Greatest Arts Do come

to Birth

From

Unrequited

Love Particularly

As We Search for the

Colors of Our Soul to Birth or come Reborn Again...
Oh So Much More Pictures Will Bring of Loves Past
And Still to Come to Put those Pictures in Words is
A Life Long Effort And Joy to Create Fields of Dreams in Form

As Essence

Struggles

Always to Breathe
Now Beyond Death

As These Days Hehe there
is More than One Way for a Pharaoh
to Have Someone Else Build a Pyramid
Iconic Representation Form of 'KA SPiRiT"

Just Imagine During the Renaissance of Old only
About 5 Percent Were Literate and Could Participate

Now the 'Bible of Humanity' is online And All Hands Efforts

of Souls Connecting Rebirthing Connecting Feelings and Senses
in All Arts And Sciences We Spread Among Each Other As New

Galaxies

of Humanity

And UniVerses

of Souls Are Constantly

Creating New All Around Now

True A Lot Like A 'Kaleidoscope of Mathematics'

Portrayed in at Least A Video of 'A Beautiful Mind'

That was in Part A Fictional Story i don't See Much Indication

That John Nash Ever Escaped 'The Roof Of His Mouth' No Different

Really than a 'Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian' Living Where 'i live'

once literally Named 'Hell'...

True Yet

to Build

THeiR Field of

Dreams And Truly Come

aS He And Or Her Will Naturally BREaTHE Free Again..

Or the First 'Time' Ever Truly Eternally Now to See A Field of Dreams come to be....

Hehe i Can And Will Paint A Picture of So-Called 'God' Forever Yet Essence Will Never Fully Be Form...

A Field

of Dreams

For And ALL A STory

Beyond Words... First Again Now



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07 Mar 2021, 3:42 am

Sorry for including you in the above quote, aghogday. Don't know what happened. I can't edit it anymore.


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07 Mar 2021, 9:47 pm

Could you please define what you mean by the word - GOD - when you use it? It saves any misunderstandings.. or possible confusion.. arising between us.. by first being clear.. concerning semantics..

FOR EXAMPLE.. DO YOU MEAN... A personification of the power.. or force.. that seems to regulate the physical universe. The force that is responsible for physical life and that is sometimes spoken of as a person. It ranges in scale from the subatomic to the cosmic. The sum total of ALL things.. in time and space.. and beyond. The power.. force.. principle.. etc. that seems to regulate the physical universe.. often personified as a creative and controlling force... affecting the world and humans.. etc..?

If so..... What makes you believe such a FORCE.. does not exist.. ?

OR.. do you mean.. the New Testament concept.. that.. GOD IS WITHIN YOU.. ?

"You are more than you think you are. There are dimensions of your being and a potential for realization and consciousness that are not included in your concept of yourself. Your life is much deeper and broader than you conceive it to be here. What you are living is but a fractional inkling of what is really within you, what gives you life, breadth, and depth." - Joseph Campbell


Have you ever considered.. that atheism could be based on false assumptions.. ?

For a start - It is a false assumption to believe the bible should be taken literally.. It is a false assumption to believe - God - means.. a man in the sky.. or a supernatural being.. and.. that should be obvious.. and don't you agree..?

False assumptions should be challenged.. otherwise.. Atheists.. along with the literal Christians.. are misleading people into believing things.. that simply are not true.. FOR EXAMPLE - It is a false assumption to confuse symbolic language with the supernatural.. and a false assumption to confuse metaphors with miracle stories.. while poetry gets confused with prose.. When someone studies the Bible they are studying people who possess highly advanced linguistic skills.. and intellects to match.. They were word smiths.. masters of ambiguity.. poet philosophers.. heavy weight intellectuals.. who used their language skills to undermine the existing system.. organized religion.. government.. and judges. The Bible says.. they were deceivers.. yet truthful.. and they were busy hacking into our system.. in order to take control of it.. from beyond the grave..... AND THEY SUCCEEDED.

"No! Insolent people of a stammering tongue, you will see a people TOO DEEP IN LANGUAGE to listen to.” .. said Isaiah...... and that's true.. The language skills they possessed.. go really deep.. and are expressed in the most beautiful poetry.

The Bible clearly says.. the Old testament was made obsolete by the New Testament.. which is perfectly logical.. because the OT contains many errors. However.. atheism.. and many Christians.. seem to be blissfully unaware of this FACT.. and hark on about the OT.. as it if were still relevant today.. when it isn't.

Personally.. I would have left the OT of Moses out of the Bible altogether.. and begin from the Book of Job.. ( or maybe add the Dead Sea Scrolls.. would be even better) ..since this is where the preparations for the New Testament.. and the realisation that a new messiah is needed.. begin. In the Psalms.. David says.. Moses spoke rashly.. while Jesus said.. "Moses did not give you the bread from heaven.. whereas I do".. so.. that was the end of Moses and the Old testament god concept... AMEN

SEE - Hebrews 7:18 + 8:13 + Hebrews 7:18 + 8:13 + 2Corinthians 3.12 + Romans 13:8.. for evidence..


Rexi wrote:
SEKKY ATHIEST WROTE - "What do you think is fair to expect when you go to a religious site and argue against their beliefs? "


It is perfectly normal.. and fair.. for people to disagree with each other.. isn't it.. I am delighted when someone disagrees with me.. which is why I tend to post on atheists sites a lot.. I LOVE OPPOSITION.. My default position is always the same.. I MIGHT BE MISTAKEN.. so.. I argue to test the strength of what I am saying.. it is a method used both in science.. and philosophy to keep thinkers on their toes....

"Jesus argued concerning the religious beliefs in his time.. Teaching organized religion was a waste of time.. because it was only about money and power.. AND THE ONLY TRUE RELIGION.. WAS BASED ON A GENUINE BELIEF IN.. THE SPIRIT OF.. Loving kindness.. Righteousness.. Justice.. Peace.. Wisdom.. Truth and Freedom.

The seven core human values.. that lay at the heart of any authentic religion.. AND EITHER EXIST.. OR DON'T EXIST.. IN HUMAN HEARTS AND MINDS.. and this is the God concept of the New Testament..

May I ask you.. do you believe in... Loving kindness.. Righteousness.. Justice.. Peace.. Wisdom.. Truth and Freedom.. Do you believe these seven core human values could create a better world to live it..?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“If you send forth your Spirit, they are Created; And you make the face of the Earth new.” - "Here I am bringing up for her a recuperation and health.. and I will heal them and reveal to them an abundance of Peace and Truth."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you do.. then you believe in the New testament God concept.. it really is that simple...

This is an example of the Bible giving organized religion.. and its priests.. a good kicking.. for their lack of belief in these core human values.. and cursing their stupidity.. for believing in the supernatural..

"What shall I do to you, when the LOVING KINDNESS of you people is like the morning clouds and like the dew that early goes away? That is why I shall have to hew them by the prophets; I shall have to KILL THEM BY THE SAYINGS OF MY MOUTH. And the JUDGMENTS apon you will be as the light that goes forth.

For in LOVING KINDNESS I have taken delight, and NOT in solemn assembly; and in the KNOWLEDGE of God rather than in your use of a SUPERNATURAL POWER. But they themselves, like earthling man, have overstepped the covenant. There is where they have dealt treacherously with me. And as in the lying in wait for a man, the association of PRIESTS ARE MARAUDING BANDS."

"For into a poisonous plant you people have turned JUSTICE, and the fruitage of RIGHTEOUSNESS into wormwood, YOU WHO ARE REJOICING IN A THING THAT IS NOT." - Hosea 6:4

So.. when an atheist says.. "what the bible says.. is not true"... it is a false assumption.. they are making.. The prophet attacked organised religion.. just like the atheists do.. but they did it so much better.

“I have hated, I have rejected your festivals, and I shall not enjoy the smell of your solemn assemblies, even in your gift offerings I shall find no pleasure. Remove from me the turmoil of your songs; and the melodious sound of your stringed instruments may I not hear. And let JUSTICE roll forth just like waters, and RIGHTEOUSNESS like a constantly flowing torrent.” - Amos 5:21 & 6:12


Rexi wrote:
SEKKY ATHIEST WROTE - "It might've convinced some the same way you seek to understand the Bible turning words in whatever way just so you can defend what it says while no one can truly say what those metaphors should mean. Who decides it?"




The writers of the Bible do.. of course... the book is self-explanatory.. All I need to do is search for the passages that explain what the true meaning really is.. and have an excellent memory..

FOR EXAMPLE.... atheist believe the miracle stories should be understood literally.. which is a false assumption.. where I understand them as being metaphor.. symbolism.. and allegory.. which is the truth.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JESUS WALKING ON WATER.. AND SILENCING THE WIND AND WAVES…A MIRACLE… OR ALLEGORY ?

When the Bible says.. “HE REBUKED THE WINDS AND THE SEA, AND A CALM SET IN”.. what does this really mean?
Are we intended to understand it literally.. as a miracle.. or as SYMBOLISM and ALLEGORY ?

“He is stilling the noise of the seas, The noise of their waves and the turmoil of the national groups. He causes the windstorm to stand at a calm, So that the waves of the sea keep quiet.” – “The national groups themselves will make a din just like the noise of many waters. And He will certainly REBUKE IT….”

ALLEGORY – As a literary device, an allegory is a metaphor in which a character, place or event is used to deliver a broader message about real-world issues and occurrences. Allegory (in the sense of the practice and use of allegorical devices and works) has occurred widely throughout history in all forms of art, largely because it can readily illustrate or convey complex ideas and concepts in ways that are comprehensible or striking to its viewers, readers, or listeners. Writers or speakers typically use allegories as literary devices or as rhetorical devices that convey (semi-)hidden or complex meanings through symbolic figures, actions, imagery, or events, which together create the moral, spiritual, or political meaning the author wishes to convey.”

"Then, getting up, HE REBUKED THE WINDS AND THE SEA, AND A CALM SET IN. So the men became amazed and said: “What sort of person is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him?” – Matthew 8:23

AND.. THE INTERPRETATION FOR WIND & WAVES.. IS…

“The national groups themselves will make a din just like the noise of many waters. And He will certainly REBUKE IT, and it must flee far away and be chased like the chaff of the mountains before a wind and like a thistle whirl before a storm wind. But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire.”

I REST MY CASE...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To be sure, the texts still seemed to me blatant nonsense, but here and there would be passages that seemed significant to me, and occasionally I even found a few sentences which I thought I could understand. “Finally I realized that the alchemists were talking in symbols.

“Why this is fantastic,” I thought. “I simply must learn to decipher all this.”

By now I was completely fascinated, and buried myself in the texts as often as I had the time.”


Extract from “Memories, Dreams and Reflections” by Carl Jung.


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"And it came to be pretty in its greatness, in the length of its foliage, for its root system proved to be over many waters." - Ezekiel 31.7


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08 Mar 2021, 1:14 am

Rexi wrote:
Sorry for including you in the above quote, aghogday. Don't know what happened. I can't edit it anymore.


No Problem, I Could See it Was Just A Formatting Issue..:)


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08 Mar 2021, 4:32 am

A Gardener wrote:
Could you please define what you mean by the word - GOD - when you use it? It saves any misunderstandings.. or possible confusion.. arising between us.. by first being clear.. concerning semantics..

FOR EXAMPLE.. DO YOU MEAN... A personification of the power.. or force.. that seems to regulate the physical universe. The force that is responsible for physical life and that is sometimes spoken of as a person. It ranges in scale from the subatomic to the cosmic. The sum total of ALL things.. in time and space.. and beyond. The power.. force.. principle.. etc. that seems to regulate the physical universe.. often personified as a creative and controlling force... affecting the world and humans.. etc..?

If so..... What makes you believe such a FORCE.. does not exist.. ?

OR.. do you mean.. the New Testament concept.. that.. GOD IS WITHIN YOU.. ?

"You are more than you think you are. There are dimensions of your being and a potential for realization and consciousness that are not included in your concept of yourself. Your life is much deeper and broader than you conceive it to be here. What you are living is but a fractional inkling of what is really within you, what gives you life, breadth, and depth." - Joseph Campbell


Have you ever considered.. that atheism could be based on false assumptions.. ?

For a start - It is a false assumption to believe the bible should be taken literally.. It is a false assumption to believe - God - means.. a man in the sky.. or a supernatural being.. and.. that should be obvious.. and don't you agree..?

False assumptions should be challenged.. otherwise.. Atheists.. along with the literal Christians.. are misleading people into believing things.. that simply are not true.. FOR EXAMPLE - It is a false assumption to confuse symbolic language with the supernatural.. and a false assumption to confuse metaphors with miracle stories.. while poetry gets confused with prose.. When someone studies the Bible they are studying people who possess highly advanced linguistic skills.. and intellects to match.. They were word smiths.. masters of ambiguity.. poet philosophers.. heavy weight intellectuals.. who used their language skills to undermine the existing system.. organized religion.. government.. and judges. The Bible says.. they were deceivers.. yet truthful.. and they were busy hacking into our system.. in order to take control of it.. from beyond the grave..... AND THEY SUCCEEDED.

"No! Insolent people of a stammering tongue, you will see a people TOO DEEP IN LANGUAGE to listen to.” .. said Isaiah...... and that's true.. The language skills they possessed.. go really deep.. and are expressed in the most beautiful poetry.

The Bible clearly says.. the Old testament was made obsolete by the New Testament.. which is perfectly logical.. because the OT contains many errors. However.. atheism.. and many Christians.. seem to be blissfully unaware of this FACT.. and hark on about the OT.. as it if were still relevant today.. when it isn't.

Personally.. I would have left the OT of Moses out of the Bible altogether.. and begin from the Book of Job.. ( or maybe add the Dead Sea Scrolls.. would be even better) ..since this is where the preparations for the New Testament.. and the realisation that a new messiah is needed.. begin. In the Psalms.. David says.. Moses spoke rashly.. while Jesus said.. "Moses did not give you the bread from heaven.. whereas I do".. so.. that was the end of Moses and the Old testament god concept... AMEN

SEE - Hebrews 7:18 + 8:13 + Hebrews 7:18 + 8:13 + 2Corinthians 3.12 + Romans 13:8.. for evidence..


Rexi wrote:
SEKKY ATHIEST WROTE - "What do you think is fair to expect when you go to a religious site and argue against their beliefs? "


It is perfectly normal.. and fair.. for people to disagree with each other.. isn't it.. I am delighted when someone disagrees with me.. which is why I tend to post on atheists sites a lot.. I LOVE OPPOSITION.. My default position is always the same.. I MIGHT BE MISTAKEN.. so.. I argue to test the strength of what I am saying.. it is a method used both in science.. and philosophy to keep thinkers on their toes....

"Jesus argued concerning the religious beliefs in his time.. Teaching organized religion was a waste of time.. because it was only about money and power.. AND THE ONLY TRUE RELIGION.. WAS BASED ON A GENUINE BELIEF IN.. THE SPIRIT OF.. Loving kindness.. Righteousness.. Justice.. Peace.. Wisdom.. Truth and Freedom.

The seven core human values.. that lay at the heart of any authentic religion.. AND EITHER EXIST.. OR DON'T EXIST.. IN HUMAN HEARTS AND MINDS.. and this is the God concept of the New Testament..

May I ask you.. do you believe in... Loving kindness.. Righteousness.. Justice.. Peace.. Wisdom.. Truth and Freedom.. Do you believe these seven core human values could create a better world to live it..?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“If you send forth your Spirit, they are Created; And you make the face of the Earth new.” - "Here I am bringing up for her a recuperation and health.. and I will heal them and reveal to them an abundance of Peace and Truth."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you do.. then you believe in the New testament God concept.. it really is that simple...

This is an example of the Bible giving organized religion.. and its priests.. a good kicking.. for their lack of belief in these core human values.. and cursing their stupidity.. for believing in the supernatural..

"What shall I do to you, when the LOVING KINDNESS of you people is like the morning clouds and like the dew that early goes away? That is why I shall have to hew them by the prophets; I shall have to KILL THEM BY THE SAYINGS OF MY MOUTH. And the JUDGMENTS apon you will be as the light that goes forth.

For in LOVING KINDNESS I have taken delight, and NOT in solemn assembly; and in the KNOWLEDGE of God rather than in your use of a SUPERNATURAL POWER. But they themselves, like earthling man, have overstepped the covenant. There is where they have dealt treacherously with me. And as in the lying in wait for a man, the association of PRIESTS ARE MARAUDING BANDS."

"For into a poisonous plant you people have turned JUSTICE, and the fruitage of RIGHTEOUSNESS into wormwood, YOU WHO ARE REJOICING IN A THING THAT IS NOT." - Hosea 6:4

So.. when an atheist says.. "what the bible says.. is not true"... it is a false assumption.. they are making.. The prophet attacked organised religion.. just like the atheists do.. but they did it so much better.

“I have hated, I have rejected your festivals, and I shall not enjoy the smell of your solemn assemblies, even in your gift offerings I shall find no pleasure. Remove from me the turmoil of your songs; and the melodious sound of your stringed instruments may I not hear. And let JUSTICE roll forth just like waters, and RIGHTEOUSNESS like a constantly flowing torrent.” - Amos 5:21 & 6:12


Rexi wrote:
SEKKY ATHIEST WROTE - "It might've convinced some the same way you seek to understand the Bible turning words in whatever way just so you can defend what it says while no one can truly say what those metaphors should mean. Who decides it?"




The writers of the Bible do.. of course... the book is self-explanatory.. All I need to do is search for the passages that explain what the true meaning really is.. and have an excellent memory..

FOR EXAMPLE.... atheist believe the miracle stories should be understood literally.. which is a false assumption.. where I understand them as being metaphor.. symbolism.. and allegory.. which is the truth.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JESUS WALKING ON WATER.. AND SILENCING THE WIND AND WAVES…A MIRACLE… OR ALLEGORY ?

When the Bible says.. “HE REBUKED THE WINDS AND THE SEA, AND A CALM SET IN”.. what does this really mean?
Are we intended to understand it literally.. as a miracle.. or as SYMBOLISM and ALLEGORY ?

“He is stilling the noise of the seas, The noise of their waves and the turmoil of the national groups. He causes the windstorm to stand at a calm, So that the waves of the sea keep quiet.” – “The national groups themselves will make a din just like the noise of many waters. And He will certainly REBUKE IT….”

ALLEGORY – As a literary device, an allegory is a metaphor in which a character, place or event is used to deliver a broader message about real-world issues and occurrences. Allegory (in the sense of the practice and use of allegorical devices and works) has occurred widely throughout history in all forms of art, largely because it can readily illustrate or convey complex ideas and concepts in ways that are comprehensible or striking to its viewers, readers, or listeners. Writers or speakers typically use allegories as literary devices or as rhetorical devices that convey (semi-)hidden or complex meanings through symbolic figures, actions, imagery, or events, which together create the moral, spiritual, or political meaning the author wishes to convey.”

"Then, getting up, HE REBUKED THE WINDS AND THE SEA, AND A CALM SET IN. So the men became amazed and said: “What sort of person is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him?” – Matthew 8:23

AND.. THE INTERPRETATION FOR WIND & WAVES.. IS…

“The national groups themselves will make a din just like the noise of many waters. And He will certainly REBUKE IT, and it must flee far away and be chased like the chaff of the mountains before a wind and like a thistle whirl before a storm wind. But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire.”

I REST MY CASE...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To be sure, the texts still seemed to me blatant nonsense, but here and there would be passages that seemed significant to me, and occasionally I even found a few sentences which I thought I could understand. “Finally I realized that the alchemists were talking in symbols.

“Why this is fantastic,” I thought. “I simply must learn to decipher all this.”

By now I was completely fascinated, and buried myself in the texts as often as I had the time.”


Extract from “Memories, Dreams and Reflections” by Carl Jung.

God is the personage of the book which created him. Any other meaning is an assigned invention given to him by people who disagree with what the Bible says but don't want to give up the belief.

The 10 commandments can't be written in coded language otherwise it beats the purpose and it obviously isn't. It's stories about Earth, slavery, women being thralls, many motives from long ago from the times where that was the only truth known. The book isn't universal neither does it have any good human values. God speaks of some good things but goes against them, besides the fact that many of his thinking patterns are inherently of an abuser and wrong.

By giving scientific debates and theories the name of God you do nothing but mix up two separate things that cannot meet. The only way that will work is through coincidence and it's very low chance, and if any of the Bible things will somehow be true when compared to science, it doesn't mean the Bible is entirely true. the data still overwhelms what the Bible can show as being true.

God is obvious, if you choose to say that he's the Universe creator, it just can't work out because he knows too little about the Universe or even humans or the future. Neither is he true in communicating and having a relationship with his children. He created some of his children to give them free will but then led them to sin just to punish them afterwards to enforce his malicious power of an unbelievable narcissism. Then he regrets it and kills Jesus to give them a chance to kiss his donkey some more.

So you are saying there is no Jesus,Prophets\ magicians, commandments, values, apocalypse, afterlife, slavery, woman hating, punishment abortions or heaven? it's metaphorical, after all.




Don't forget some Atheists were pastors, scientists, can't pretend like they haven't ever seen something you believe to 'shake' their beliefs. Not to mention the debaters. Not unless you sustain the believers were all too weak up to the point you appeared to actually make any valid belief changing points for atheists.

And then, do you actually like beliefs you deem fake? Repetitive same beliefs, you eventually will bow out of a conversation if you want to stop hearing all the same point. Unless you are one who would gladly fight atheists as a life purpose which doesn't surprise me given you go on atheist sites for the purpose of fighting their beliefs. There are better sites for that debate, I suggest Twitter. Some atheists go for whole days sometimes speaking to people of religious beliefs. Eventually they stop though. But there's always the next debate.


_________________
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Atheist
:cat: :cat:


aghogday
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Age: 60
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Posts: 9,485

08 Mar 2021, 1:49 pm



God Is Move And Repose

God Is Dark And Light

God The Word Doesn't Need to

Exist

Yet

Move And

Repose Dark And

Light Still Do And All

The 'Wonderful Colors' i Feel

And Sense As This Breath of Life

This Autotelic Flow This Focus

Beyond Distraction This

Bliss This Frission

Where my

Core of Heaven

Is Seeing Beauty of

DarK Brings LiGHT Life Breathes Now

That's Enough For that Exists Now As Is

i am

that's

Enough and While

it Might Not Seem Like

Much Rare is it a Human

Being That Becomes

The Tools

They

Use

Who ReMeMBeRS

They are A Breath of Nature Enough Now to Be i am...

It's Worth Noting Now too if None of These Words Come to Be i Still BREaTHE NoW i AM

Meh, Folks Get Trapped in Words And Other Tools And Never Dance Naked With Sand And Sun As

Best

FRiEnDS

Of Gravity

Truly 'Walking

On Water' the Skill

of Balance We Develop

Or Become Tools We All

Create Lost Naked Away From Nature Free IN BALANCE NOW

Yes FRiEnDS With Gravity Even What Stephen Hawking Suggests Creates IT ALL

Something

Coming

From

Nothing

Miracle Enough

For me at Least

This Breath This Wind

i For one Color as Story

With Relative Free will i see i am i Do Create...

HAha it's pretty Obvious there is MaGiC iN

Life it is Simply What Most Folks Don't Experience as 'Colors of Life'....

A Dance

And Song

Naked And Free

It Doesn't Have to

Have Any Words or Reasons
to exist Just Be Just Breathe Just truly 'See' free...

After that Nouns Become Rather Moot Points Verb is WingS on Flight...

i Didn't Need Any Words Before 4 When i Could Not Speak Looking Across

A River i am Raised on A River Bank There Across to The Forest it's Obvious i Am A Tree....

A Leaf

Dead

Or Alive

i Feed the Soil

Or A Tree; Yes, i Am A Forest too

Sky, Ground, Water, Wave, Ocean Whole

Thanks For Now i BREaTHE TRuE NoW FOR REAL
is Long as Forever now is now SaMe 'Real Age As Three'.... Now

Yep, Some Days In Life Ya Skip All 'the Words' And Arrive At 'The Soul' of 'THE Matter' NOW

-The Child



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Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

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10 Mar 2021, 3:23 pm

aghogday wrote:

"i Didn't Need Any Words Before 4 When i Could Not Speak Looking Across"


I was slow at learning to talk too.. I remember my father telling me.. all the other kids can talk so well.. so what is wrong with you..? As if it were my fault that I couldn't talk very well.. but then I didn't have much social contact as a child.. because we were always moving from place to place.. making friends was not easy.. and we can't learn to talk.. unless we have someone to talk to.

I enjoyed 'A Beautiful Mind' ..I feel that way about many of the great thinkers.. especially the writers of the Bible.. whose powerful intellects.. and their way with words.. left me in awe. A mind that has been well used in life.. possesses a certain beauty.. that lifts us up on the shoulders of giants.. and shows us things we have never even imagined..

Men.. human animals.. but with the minds of gods.. I enjoyed - The Imitation Game - too.. where Alan Turing is portrayed as an aspie.. that no one can get along with.. I'd like to watch it again.. it is a great film.

The more I read about the universe we live in.. the more it fascinates me.. It is far stranger than I ever imagined in my youth.. and however science probes into it.. it will never have all the answers.. and that.. to me.. PROVES that something.. so much greater than us.. exists.. so science PROVES GOD.. because there will always be something.. that lies beyond our understanding.. and is inaccessible to our knowledge.. The INFINITE.. ETERNITY.. AND.. We represent this understanding.. that science has provided us with.. with a symbol.. or metaphor.. G O D

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Physics tries to discover the pattern of events which controls the phenomena we observe. But we can never know what this pattern means or how it originates; and even if some superior intelligence were to tell us, we should find the explanation unintelligible."

"The human race, whose intelligence dates back only a single tick of the astronomical clock, could hardly hope to understand so soon what it all means." - James Jean
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was impressed by the work of Kurt Godel.. that I discovered recently.. He looked around.. in his time.. and noticed how his fellow scientists all seem to believe that.. one day they would have all the answers.. and have a complete understanding of the universe. So.. Godel went to work.. and using mathematics.. far beyond my understanding.. somehow managed to prove they were all wrong.. and that our knowledge could never be completed.. That gave birth to.. Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.. Einstein once said.. There was no one he would rather be in the company of than Kurt Godel.. and for sure.. Godel had such a beautiful mind.. and was deeply spiritual in his thinking.. if science could have its saints.. Godel would be one.

TO QUOTE - "IN 1931, THE Austrian logician Kurt Gödel pulled off arguably one of the most stunning intellectual achievements in history. His incompleteness theorems meant there can be no mathematical theory of everything, no unification of what’s provable and what’s true. What mathematicians can prove depends on their starting assumptions, not on any fundamental ground truth from which all answers spring."

AND ..WOW.. THAT WAS A REAL ACHIEVEMENT!! !

According to my understanding.. (but.. I could be mistaken).. Godel proved that there are things that are true.. but which can never be proved.. like my Primary Field Theory.. and I have doubts that the multiverse can ever be proved too.. However.. I feel sure it exists... because nature never does things in ONES. IF THERE IS ONE UNIVERSE.. THEN SURELY.. THERE MUST BE MORE... and whether there is a multiverse.. or not.. determines whether my Primary Field Theory.. sinks or swims.. ONE UNIVERSE.. IN AN INFINITE FIELD.. WOULD BE VERY UNLIKELY.. EVEN WEIRD..

I like your term.. 'This Field of Dreams'.. some of my dreams.. after meditating.. are the most beautiful places I have ever visited.. This Field of Dreams is a place I love to go..

I remember.. One night.. while dreaming.. coming through some dark woods.. I walked on until I arrived at a clearing. In the centre of the clearing their was a deep pool of water.. with a huge.. and very old tree growing out from the center of it..... There was no island of land there.. just the solitary giant tree.. rising grandly out of the water.

I walked down to the side of the pool.. and looked down into the deep crystal clear water. Below I could make out the vast roots of this ancient tree.. descending into the depths. As I was gazing into the still water.. I felt overcome by a sense of peace.. and was moved so much by the beauty of what I saw.. it gave me a sensation of something magical...... something, hard to put into words.

That dream is where I got the idea for my avatar picture from - The Tree of Life.. Definitely a Jungian archetype.. Some years later.. I discovered the very same image in the Bible.. representing a new and better system on earth.. after Jesus had cut the existing tree down.. because it bore no fruit.... that's a beautiful way to put it.. I thought.. Jesus said..

"Master, leave it also this year, until I dig around it and throw manure. And if it produces fruit in the future— otherwise indeed, cut it down’”. - "Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” - Luke 13:8 & 3:9

I had many such dreams during the time I was engaging in lengthy sessions of meditation.. in the homeless hostel in London.. They lit up the darkness in my mind at night.. while I was sleeping.. and left me with memories.. I shall never forget.. Much more important than the experiences I have had in this material world.. The landscapes of the night.. are even better than romance..


aghogday wrote:
"Mind is Born More of Numbers the place i excelled the Most in Systemizing Ways"


I am totally useless at maths.. My only school education was in classes for special needs children.. fortunately.. once I had left school I started reading a lot of books and taught myself everything I wanted to know..

Fractals interest me.. and make me wonder if the universe has an infinite depth.. Things getting smaller and smaller.. being never.ending.. I once created a music video using fractals.. to celebrate one of my all time favorite British musicians - Gary Clail - I managed to get him as a friend on FACEBOOK.. and I was delighted to find he now features my creation on his FACEBOOK page.. His music is incredible.. completely original.. It is also very Biblical.. and religious.. in the true sense of the word.. I often listen to it when I am meditating.. it lifts me up.. into a COSMIC BLISS..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBn-DlRsiv4


_________________
“I have no responsibility to live up to what others expect of me. That's their mistake, not my failing.” - “There is no authority who decides what is a good idea.”― Richard Feynman

"And it came to be pretty in its greatness, in the length of its foliage, for its root system proved to be over many waters." - Ezekiel 31.7


aghogday
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Age: 60
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Posts: 9,485

11 Mar 2021, 11:54 am

A Gardener wrote:
aghogday wrote:

"i Didn't Need Any Words Before 4 When i Could Not Speak Looking Across"


I was slow at learning to talk too.. I remember my father telling me.. all the other kids can talk so well.. so what is wrong with you..? As if it were my fault that I couldn't talk very well.. but then I didn't have much social contact as a child.. because we were always moving from place to place.. making friends was not easy.. and we can't learn to talk.. unless we have someone to talk to.

I enjoyed 'A Beautiful Mind' ..I feel that way about many of the great thinkers.. especially the writers of the Bible.. whose powerful intellects.. and their way with words.. left me in awe. A mind that has been well used in life.. possesses a certain beauty.. that lifts us up on the shoulders of giants.. and shows us things we have never even imagined..

Men.. human animals.. but with the minds of gods.. I enjoyed - The Imitation Game - too.. where Alan Turing is portrayed as an aspie.. that no one can get along with.. I'd like to watch it again.. it is a great film.

The more I read about the universe we live in.. the more it fascinates me.. It is far stranger than I ever imagined in my youth.. and however science probes into it.. it will never have all the answers.. and that.. to me.. PROVES that something.. so much greater than us.. exists.. so science PROVES GOD.. because there will always be something.. that lies beyond our understanding.. and is inaccessible to our knowledge.. The INFINITE.. ETERNITY.. AND.. We represent this understanding.. that science has provided us with.. with a symbol.. or metaphor.. G O D

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Physics tries to discover the pattern of events which controls the phenomena we observe. But we can never know what this pattern means or how it originates; and even if some superior intelligence were to tell us, we should find the explanation unintelligible."

"The human race, whose intelligence dates back only a single tick of the astronomical clock, could hardly hope to understand so soon what it all means." - James Jean
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was impressed by the work of Kurt Godel.. that I discovered recently.. He looked around.. in his time.. and noticed how his fellow scientists all seem to believe that.. one day they would have all the answers.. and have a complete understanding of the universe. So.. Godel went to work.. and using mathematics.. far beyond my understanding.. somehow managed to prove they were all wrong.. and that our knowledge could never be completed.. That gave birth to.. Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.. Einstein once said.. There was no one he would rather be in the company of than Kurt Godel.. and for sure.. Godel had such a beautiful mind.. and was deeply spiritual in his thinking.. if science could have its saints.. Godel would be one.

TO QUOTE - "IN 1931, THE Austrian logician Kurt Gödel pulled off arguably one of the most stunning intellectual achievements in history. His incompleteness theorems meant there can be no mathematical theory of everything, no unification of what’s provable and what’s true. What mathematicians can prove depends on their starting assumptions, not on any fundamental ground truth from which all answers spring."

AND ..WOW.. THAT WAS A REAL ACHIEVEMENT!! !

According to my understanding.. (but.. I could be mistaken).. Godel proved that there are things that are true.. but which can never be proved.. like my Primary Field Theory.. and I have doubts that the multiverse can ever be proved too.. However.. I feel sure it exists... because nature never does things in ONES. IF THERE IS ONE UNIVERSE.. THEN SURELY.. THERE MUST BE MORE... and whether there is a multiverse.. or not.. determines whether my Primary Field Theory.. sinks or swims.. ONE UNIVERSE.. IN AN INFINITE FIELD.. WOULD BE VERY UNLIKELY.. EVEN WEIRD..

I like your term.. 'This Field of Dreams'.. some of my dreams.. after meditating.. are the most beautiful places I have ever visited.. This Field of Dreams is a place I love to go..

I remember.. One night.. while dreaming.. coming through some dark woods.. I walked on until I arrived at a clearing. In the centre of the clearing their was a deep pool of water.. with a huge.. and very old tree growing out from the center of it..... There was no island of land there.. just the solitary giant tree.. rising grandly out of the water.

I walked down to the side of the pool.. and looked down into the deep crystal clear water. Below I could make out the vast roots of this ancient tree.. descending into the depths. As I was gazing into the still water.. I felt overcome by a sense of peace.. and was moved so much by the beauty of what I saw.. it gave me a sensation of something magical...... something, hard to put into words.

That dream is where I got the idea for my avatar picture from - The Tree of Life.. Definitely a Jungian archetype.. Some years later.. I discovered the very same image in the Bible.. representing a new and better system on earth.. after Jesus had cut the existing tree down.. because it bore no fruit.... that's a beautiful way to put it.. I thought.. Jesus said..

"Master, leave it also this year, until I dig around it and throw manure. And if it produces fruit in the future— otherwise indeed, cut it down’”. - "Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” - Luke 13:8 & 3:9

I had many such dreams during the time I was engaging in lengthy sessions of meditation.. in the homeless hostel in London.. They lit up the darkness in my mind at night.. while I was sleeping.. and left me with memories.. I shall never forget.. Much more important than the experiences I have had in this material world.. The landscapes of the night.. are even better than romance..


aghogday wrote:
"Mind is Born More of Numbers the place i excelled the Most in Systemizing Ways"


I am totally useless at maths.. My only school education was in classes for special needs children.. fortunately.. once I had left school I started reading a lot of books and taught myself everything I wanted to know..

Fractals interest me.. and make me wonder if the universe has an infinite depth.. Things getting smaller and smaller.. being never.ending.. I once created a music video using fractals.. to celebrate one of my all time favorite British musicians - Gary Clail - I managed to get him as a friend on FACEBOOK.. and I was delighted to find he now features my creation on his FACEBOOK page.. His music is incredible.. completely original.. It is also very Biblical.. and religious.. in the true sense of the word.. I often listen to it when I am meditating.. it lifts me up.. into a COSMIC BLISS..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBn-DlRsiv4




SMiLes 'God is the Gift' of the
Next Breath If We Could Be
Sure it is the Same As This

Breath All Will Be Machine
And Surely Then A Creator
Besides 'God' Will Create Us

Views Vary My FRiEnD Surely
The Child Without Words Until 4 Views Their
UNiVerSE Within Much Differently Than A Child

More Trapped in Words for the Child Without Words
More Directly Feels And Senses The World Without Filters

That

Come

Before

And Yes There
Are So Many Ways
to View Reality

Yet 'GoD' NoW

Remains Change
CoLoRinG ANeW A
NeXT Breath DiffeRently
As Our Paint Brushes
Help Determine

From Every

Color

We Apply to 'Fore
As PReSeNT FuTuRE NoW

It's Not That i Have to KNoW
It Yet i Do It Now This Breath
Ever CoLoRinG Wind More This

SPiRiT oF HeART SoUL Beyond All

Measure Creativity Is Always Yet to Arrive More

'God' Ever Evolving Every Color of Breath WE Come to Paint New Now

And True i take Great Fascination in Pondering All the Constructs That Bring

Form As

Colors

Of Essence More

And Verily Entertain

All Thoughts Here Before

And NoW iN Change More

For What Is A FLoWeR Without

New Blooms Obviously A FLoWeR

No Longer Blooming

Now

Be

The

FLoWeR

Bloom Don't

Quit JusT DO iT Ya Don't Even Need Shoes

And Surely Don't Have to Sell Them Hehe

This Breath iN Victory NoW EveR FLoWeRinG

Living New Best CoLoRinG MoRE mY FRiEnD...

Sigh... my Father Was So Worried i'd Never Become a

Man Even Said When my Only Child Ryan was Going into

HeART Surgery in a Life of Only Pain With No Smile for Only

51 Days Yes My Father Said Raise Him Like A Man Of Course

He Never Got Around to Raising Me As What He Was Sure A Man Is...

True i Finally

Became

WoMaN

Enough to BE A MaN

i Finally BeCaME LoVE

Sprouted Wings And Escaped

The Old Musty Cocoon That He

Never Escaped Out of With Wings

True i Didn't Vegetate on the 'Lazy Boy Recliner'

Starting in my 20's Watching Sports And Such

Until the End of my Life Nope i Finally Got Up at

Age 53 Put on Wings of Dance And Song Never Going Back to the Cocoon Again...

It's Like Where i Live the Folks My Age Still Reliving Their Glory Days of Playing

High School

Football

Where They

Won State Championships

At my High School in 1978
Through 1979 Yep State Runner
Up in 1977 Before i Graduated in 1978...

i got Back in the Game Not Sitting on the Bench

Again And True i didn't Even Start Playing 'Football' until Age 53...

It's true A little Over A Year into my Public Free Dance Moving Meditation With No Lessons Career With Empty Pockets

That's All it took For the 'Folks in the Stands' to Yell Out You're Legend Do You Know How Famous You Are...

Yet You

See i

BREaTHE

Naked Enough

NoW iN Dance Sand And Sun Free me

i Am Enough With None of 'Their Clothes' At all...

-Snoopy

AKA

God This Breath...

Created by Charles

Schultz As Just Another Author of God...

He Did it in a Way That None of the Characters

Will Ever Be Canceled True 'Snoopy' Will Probably

Be Remembered When 'Jesus' Is Dead Again For Real

For Most All That's Left of 'Jesus' Now in CuLTuRE IS

A Banner Flying By A Capitol Bloody Insurrection That

Says "Jesus Saves", "Jesus 2020"; Sadly Perhaps The Last

'Facebook Picture' Remembered of 'Jesus' That Only Says Hang The 'Vice President'

By

A

Tree

of A Noose Again...

True My FRiEnD We Must

ALWayS Strive to Be LiVinG Trees Sprouting LiGHT

Falling Leaves RiSinG Green 'After the Love is Gone'

For Real Born Again Now Breathing, Breathing Love to Be i Am NoW...:)



_________________
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Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


A Gardener
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2021
Age: 1969
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11 Mar 2021, 3:17 pm

Rexi wrote:
"The 10 commandments can't be written in coded language otherwise it beats the purpose and it obviously isn't. It's stories about Earth, slavery, women being thralls, many motives from long ago from the times where that was the only truth known. "


I didn't say they were written in coded language through did I..? Maybe you could explain something that really puzzles me.. I do not understand why atheists keep talking about the Old Testament of Moses.. when the Bible makes it perfectly clear the OT is done away.. Have you actually ever read the Bible.. ?

“Moreover, if the code which administers death and which was engraved in letters in stones came about in a glory, a glory that was to be done away with..” - "In his saying "a new covenant" He has made the former one OBSOLETE and growing old is near to vanishing away."

Yes.. I know some christian talk about it.. but they have probably never read the Bible either.. instead.. they get in bed with the teachings of men.. who only see things literally.. and who are often only interested in gaining power and wealth.. to them.. truth doesn't matter. As Alan Watts once said.. "Prostitution is the oldest occupation.. while organised religion is the oldest con-trick.."

The OT belongs with the Jewish religion.. along with the Jewish God concept.. (man in the sky) and it has nothing to do with the New Testament.. apart from its historical connection. If you wish to debate the Jewish beliefs.. you need to debate with a Jewish scholar.. not me.. I am not in the least bit interested in Jewish traditions.. I skip the OT when I study the Bible.. because I know it has no relevance.. So.. lets discuss the New Testament.. and the NT God concept.. in future.. shall we..?


Rexi wrote:
"The book isn't universal neither does it have any good human values. God speaks of some good things but goes against them, besides the fact that many of his thinking patterns are inherently of an abuser and wrong."


I disagree.. Loving kindness, Righteousness, Justice, Peace, Wisdom, Truth and Freedom.. and the golden rule of treating each other as we would wish to be treated ourselves.. are very good human values.. and universal too.. aren't they.. ?

What values do athiests have.. that are better..?


Rexi wrote:
"Don't forget some Atheists were pastors, scientists, can't pretend like they haven't ever seen something you believe to 'shake' their beliefs. Not to mention the debaters. Not unless you sustain the believers were all too weak up to the point you appeared to actually make any valid belief changing points for atheists."


A "valid belief changing points for atheists." .. would be to prove.. beyond a reasonable doubt.. the OT was made obsolete.. by the New.. wouldn't it..? Doesn't that shake you belief.. ? It is a complete waste of time to discuss the OT.. because IT IS DONE AWAY WITH BY CHRIST.. SO WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONTINUALLY TALKING ABOUT the OT.. THIS STRANGE BEHAVIOUR DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME..

Have they never read what the New Testament says.. I'm wondering..?

MAY I ASK.. HAVE YOU READ THE NT.. ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Certainly, then, there occurs a setting aside of the proceeding commandment on account of its weakness and ineffectiveness.” - ”For if the first covenant had been faultless. No place would have been sought for a second." - "But their mental powers were dulled. For to this present day the same veil remains uplifted at the reading of the old covenant, because it is DONE AWAY WITH by means of Christ. In fact, down till today whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their hearts." - “For if the code administering condemnation was glorious, much more does the administering of righteousness abound with glory.”

The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
Hebrews 7:18 + 8:13 + 2Corinthians 3.12 + Romans 13:8

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So shouldn't atheists be cracking open a bottle of Champaign and rejoicing that the hated Old Testament of Moses was made obsolete over 2000 years ago.. and use this evidence based argument against the literal christians.. who still mistakenly preach it? ....AND THERE-BY ARE MIS-LEADING PEOPLE.. It was a big mistake the church made.. to include it in the Bible books.. it shouldn't be there.. see - The Age of Reason - by Thomas Paine.. to see how the church butchered the Bible.. and left many good books out.. that were far better than the OT.. to read.. The Book of Wisdom.. for example..

Anyway.. THIS WILL MAKE YOU LAUGH.. Below is a humorous view of why it was necessary to make the covenant of Moses obsolete.. and it is a very good argument..

http://www.apocatastasis.net/GoldenRule ... Laura.html

AND.. THIS IS THE NEW TESTAMENT VIEW OF GOD.. GOD IS INSIDE.. AND YOU.. YOURSELF ARE GOD.. YOU ARE A CREATOR..

“Once more the Jews lifted up stones to stone him. Jesus replied to them: "I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?"

The Jews answered him: "We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god."

Jesus answered them : "Is it not written in your Law, `I said: "You are gods"'? – I John 10:31

Jesus was quoting Psalms 82:5 in his defence that God and mankind were – potentially – one and the same..….

AND............ Psalms 82:5 clearly says....

“They have not known, and they do not understand; In darkness they keep walking about; All the foundations of the earth are made to totter. I myself have said, 'You are gods, And ALL of you are sons of the Most High.” - Psalms 82:5

“Every church is a stone.. On the grave of a god-man: It does not want him to rise up again.. under any circumstances.” - Friedrich Nietzsche


William Blake Meets Thomas Paine - Encounters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2mCXOdO2AI


_________________
“I have no responsibility to live up to what others expect of me. That's their mistake, not my failing.” - “There is no authority who decides what is a good idea.”― Richard Feynman

"And it came to be pretty in its greatness, in the length of its foliage, for its root system proved to be over many waters." - Ezekiel 31.7


aghogday
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12 Mar 2021, 1:16 pm



My Backyard
IS A Quiet Garden
So Is My Soul Eden
iN A ‘Drunken’ Crowd

True i’m ‘Adam And Eve And Thomas’
And Katrina Is Just An Innocent Bystander
Witness To “The Whole Naked Clothed Crime”

‘Adam And Eve’ Meet ‘Thomas Paine’ In “The Garden”

Hehe Thomas Paine And William Blake Yang Yin My Brain
In Three Bear Balance Triune Reptile, Limbic, Neo Cortical Trinity As Such

True Most Clothed “Beings” Won’t Get The Simplicity Of The Never
Ending “Depth Of the Story” ‘Naked Verse 37 By Gospel of Thomas’

A Fundamentalist Atheist/Militant Christian HaVE iN Common
Both Afraid To Breathe They’re Naked God For Real NoW

God And Politics Sun Revolving Planets

Yin And Yang of William Blake And
Thomas Paine Naked Or Clothed
Most Days i Wear Shorts And
Long Form Poem “The Rest”

SMiLes my FRiEnD Born With
'Vision' How 'the Naked Child' Becomes
Clothed With CuLTuRaL Tools And Becomes

Those Tools Now More Than Ever Before How
Long Or Is it Possible For 'The Child' To Even Regain

Those Eyes of Vision Again Yes 'Child of Vision' Also A

Song by 'Super Tramp' too as 'They' Sing From Britain Then

'America Breakfast' Below 'Twin Towers' Find Yourself A New Ambition...

Who Are We Question We Do By William Blake

What Do We Next Plan By Thomas Paine

Ask i Sit Behind this Screen

Green Sunshine

Flowering

Spring Free

Fur And Wings

SquirrelS And Birds

Climb Trees And Fly

As They Please The

Abundance We Provide Free

In Terms of All They Will Eat Sunflower Seeds...

True as A Poet i Might Leave at a Few Lines Yet

Too As Thomas Paine And One Would Hope in

Terms of All the Gospels of Thomas one

Might BRinG iT All to a Table of Plenty

That Explains Where Heaven

Is And How to

Get

To Heaven

For Real Now Forever

In A Lifelong Practice That Works for them...

Thomas Paine True Might not Be Able to See the
Plan the Prophet of this Yet What is already Laid to Waste

Is The Rest of Nature We Over-consume God's Face out

There And Within True As Taking Over Giving And Hoarding

Over Sharing Is Surely A Non-Caring Gift of This God Face of Nature

We All Share or Go Away Now and Next So What is the Answer What is

An Answer

Obviously

Humans Who no Longer

Desire to Take And Hoard over

Give and Share Freely For How does One

Do this What Plan And Practice Does it take

Ah Yes the Gift Complete This Heaven Within that is Enough

With Water, Food to Eat, Shelter, And Loving Security And Social Roles

Caring Giving Sharing

Loving For Free....

And that's An Art

And that's An Art

Never A Science Complete....

"Part 1, A Play in Lambeth"

Where Thomas Paine Encounters

William Blake And His Wife 'Kate' in

A Naked Garden of Eden That is Their's All Free

So Much of the Human Condition Packed in ONE HOUR

of a Play Appropriately told Both Yin And Yang Naked And Clothed...

How Few 'These Days' Would Ever Get Passed The Beginning of Naked

How Many

Truly

Only

Wanna

Go Back

Yet Hide This

Truth in One Long

Lie of A Living Death

After 'The Apple' of Freedom Plays...:)



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14 Mar 2021, 2:21 am

A Gardener wrote:
Rexi wrote:
"The 10 commandments can't be written in coded language otherwise it beats the purpose and it obviously isn't. It's stories about Earth, slavery, women being thralls, many motives from long ago from the times where that was the only truth known. "


I didn't say they were written in coded language through did I..? Maybe you could explain something that really puzzles me.. I do not understand why atheists keep talking about the Old Testament of Moses.. when the Bible makes it perfectly clear the OT is done away.. Have you actually ever read the Bible.. ?

“Moreover, if the code which administers death and which was engraved in letters in stones came about in a glory, a glory that was to be done away with..” - "In his saying "a new covenant" He has made the former one OBSOLETE and growing old is near to vanishing away."

Yes.. I know some christian talk about it.. but they have probably never read the Bible either.. instead.. they get in bed with the teachings of men.. who only see things literally.. and who are often only interested in gaining power and wealth.. to them.. truth doesn't matter. As Alan Watts once said.. "Prostitution is the oldest occupation.. while organised religion is the oldest con-trick.."

The OT belongs with the Jewish religion.. along with the Jewish God concept.. (man in the sky) and it has nothing to do with the New Testament.. apart from its historical connection. If you wish to debate the Jewish beliefs.. you need to debate with a Jewish scholar.. not me.. I am not in the least bit interested in Jewish traditions.. I skip the OT when I study the Bible.. because I know it has no relevance.. So.. lets discuss the New Testament.. and the NT God concept.. in future.. shall we..?


Rexi wrote:
"The book isn't universal neither does it have any good human values. God speaks of some good things but goes against them, besides the fact that many of his thinking patterns are inherently of an abuser and wrong."


I disagree.. Loving kindness, Righteousness, Justice, Peace, Wisdom, Truth and Freedom.. and the golden rule of treating each other as we would wish to be treated ourselves.. are very good human values.. and universal too.. aren't they.. ?

What values do athiests have.. that are better..?


Rexi wrote:
"Don't forget some Atheists were pastors, scientists, can't pretend like they haven't ever seen something you believe to 'shake' their beliefs. Not to mention the debaters. Not unless you sustain the believers were all too weak up to the point you appeared to actually make any valid belief changing points for atheists."


A "valid belief changing points for atheists." .. would be to prove.. beyond a reasonable doubt.. the OT was made obsolete.. by the New.. wouldn't it..? Doesn't that shake you belief.. ? It is a complete waste of time to discuss the OT.. because IT IS DONE AWAY WITH BY CHRIST.. SO WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONTINUALLY TALKING ABOUT the OT.. THIS STRANGE BEHAVIOUR DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME..

Have they never read what the New Testament says.. I'm wondering..?

MAY I ASK.. HAVE YOU READ THE NT.. ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Certainly, then, there occurs a setting aside of the proceeding commandment on account of its weakness and ineffectiveness.” - ”For if the first covenant had been faultless. No place would have been sought for a second." - "But their mental powers were dulled. For to this present day the same veil remains uplifted at the reading of the old covenant, because it is DONE AWAY WITH by means of Christ. In fact, down till today whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their hearts." - “For if the code administering condemnation was glorious, much more does the administering of righteousness abound with glory.”

The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
Hebrews 7:18 + 8:13 + 2Corinthians 3.12 + Romans 13:8

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So shouldn't atheists be cracking open a bottle of Champaign and rejoicing that the hated Old Testament of Moses was made obsolete over 2000 years ago.. and use this evidence based argument against the literal christians.. who still mistakenly preach it? ....AND THERE-BY ARE MIS-LEADING PEOPLE.. It was a big mistake the church made.. to include it in the Bible books.. it shouldn't be there.. see - The Age of Reason - by Thomas Paine.. to see how the church butchered the Bible.. and left many good books out.. that were far better than the OT.. to read.. The Book of Wisdom.. for example..

Anyway.. THIS WILL MAKE YOU LAUGH.. Below is a humorous view of why it was necessary to make the covenant of Moses obsolete.. and it is a very good argument..

http://www.apocatastasis.net/GoldenRule ... Laura.html

AND.. THIS IS THE NEW TESTAMENT VIEW OF GOD.. GOD IS INSIDE.. AND YOU.. YOURSELF ARE GOD.. YOU ARE A CREATOR..

“Once more the Jews lifted up stones to stone him. Jesus replied to them: "I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?"

The Jews answered him: "We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god."

Jesus answered them : "Is it not written in your Law, `I said: "You are gods"'? – I John 10:31

Jesus was quoting Psalms 82:5 in his defence that God and mankind were – potentially – one and the same..….

AND............ Psalms 82:5 clearly says....

“They have not known, and they do not understand; In darkness they keep walking about; All the foundations of the earth are made to totter. I myself have said, 'You are gods, And ALL of you are sons of the Most High.” - Psalms 82:5

“Every church is a stone.. On the grave of a god-man: It does not want him to rise up again.. under any circumstances.” - Friedrich Nietzsche


William Blake Meets Thomas Paine - Encounters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2mCXOdO2AI

I was actually talking about the slavery in the New Testament, when God had a chance to abolish slavery but instead he became the man at those times. How could god be this dumb? He is always staying in caveman thinking patterns because he was created by old times men. He has no moral. Today we know more than him. Today we know a son shouldn't be punished for what his dad did, or his family\wife. f**k that old ragged book, it's dumb as heck is. There is no point in an afterlife doing the same thing. You are supposed to kiss butt to a god here and in the next life with your abusers with a smile because they repented before death. The only luck is that my country is no longer a shithole of a theocracy. Whoever has power wants to impose their religious s**t on the masses and preaches at the office like he was voted for a priest not real matters.

Yeah i deff rejoice at the new f*****g testament. Mhm, go ahead get slaves. Sure go back to the middle ages.

Who's the one who didn't read their Bible now?!

God is inside and feeling God is no proof of God existing. You feel it because you want him to be real.
Please bring real proof.


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15 Mar 2021, 3:10 pm

aghogday wrote:
William Blake And His Wife 'Kate' in the Garden of Eden


I didn't notice the connection between your wife.. and Blake's wife Kate.. until you mentioned it.. that's a coincidence.. It has been a long time since I watched that video.. and I have watched it several times.. I came across it many years ago.. on the BBC and made a video recording of it.. and when utube came on the scene I uploaded it.. because Blake is a very popular artist and thinker.. and i wanted to share.

I have great admiration for both men.. I first came across the works of Blake after visiting a friend.. and I remember telling him.. I recently had the idea that GOD IS THE IMAGINATION.. BECAUSE IT IS THE IMAGINATION THAT CREATES.. WHAT WE CALL.. REALITY..

My friend told me that Blake had said exactly the same.. GOD IS THE IMAGINATION.. so that knowledge fired my interest.. and I started reading up on Blake.. and admiring his art.. They have a great exihibition of his art in the TATE GALLERY in London.. and it is free to go in.

When I was studying the works of Carl Jung in my youth.. because I found his ideas exciting.. I remember reading.. Jung was also impressed by Blake's thinking.. and artistic symbolism.. along with the ideas of Nietzsche.. both thinkers inspired him greatly.. it seems.. Blake's lucid visions were quiet amazing.. I often wonder what method he used to access so much visionary experiences.. he must have used either meditation.. or magic mushrooms.. but I am only guessing.

I have had visionary dreams.. but they are rare.. and seem to depend on how much time I spend in meditation.. after 2.. or 3.. hours I get really spaced out.. it is like being on drugs.. the most beautiful high.. mixed in with the attention of an eagle.. and an artist's eye.. I walk down the street and keep stopping to look at things.. with a great sense of wonder.. Simple everyday things.. like some moss on a wall.. that has been transformed in my mind.. because of the higher state of consciousness I have entered into.. Where the only words that come to me are... WOW!! !.. now I know what people mean.. when they use the word.. GOD..

Everything is totally amazing me.. and god is the only word I can use.. when.. my field of consciousness transcends everyday experience.. and takes me to the higher realms.. OF MY IMAGINATION.. and dreams.

FOR EXAMPLE - After falling asleep.. I had this VIVID dream.. where I found myself holding an old fashioned scythe... I was standing in an overgrown garden.. sharpening it with a stone... I worked at it until the blade shone like silver.. as the light from the sun reflected on it.. it was gleaming.. with such a bright light.. ALL READY FOR THE HARVEST..

The dream moved on and I found myself in this ancient crypt... full of statutes of saints... kind of Catholic relics.. .. I guess.. even though I have never been a churchy type... I WAS ACTIALLY AN ATHIEST.. once upon a time.. that was until I read Campbell.. and Jung.. concerning religious symbolism..

I remember that I was busy.. trying to loosen a white marble pebble.. set firmly in the base of one of the statues. It was all very dusty everywhere. Eventually.. the stone came free... and behind it was concealed a piece of metal piping... about 1 inch in diameter. I poked my finger into the hole and felt around inside it. I could feel something inside the pipe... and at last managed to pull out a small.. brown paper package. When I opened it.. it contained a few small sparkling diamonds that twinkled magically in my palm.. as they caught the light.. but I did not understand the significance of the dream.. at that time..... and how the hell does all that light find its way into my brain.. while I am fast asleep? .......... IT'S A MYSTRY TO ME.

However.. some years later.. at a time when I studied the Bible exclusively.. for many years.. I found this verse about a white pebble.. that had been concealed.. while i was studying the book of Revelation... HOW STRANGE.. I REMEMBER THINKING.. JUST LIKE IN MY DREAM.. It was like.. in some of my dreams.. I was actually seeing the future..

Strange things happen.. when ever I do meditation.. Things that seem beyond coincidence AND even the improbable..

This is the part where Revelation mentions.. A WHILE PEBBLE.. probably the pebble that slew Goliath.. a giant who was a symbol of the system.. that the prophet wanted to destroy.. The very same symbolism as the tree.. he wanted to cut down.. because it bore no fruit..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who overcomes, I will give the hidden manna. I will also give him a white pebble inscribed with a new name, known only to the one who receives it." - Revelation 2:17
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Concerning the human imagination being God.. William Blake wrote in one of his letters... "I feel that a man may be happy in this world. And I know that this world is a world of imagination and vision. I see everything I paint in this world, but everybody does not see alike. To the eyes of a miser a gold coin is far more beautiful than the sun. and a bag worn with the use of money has more beautiful proportions than a vine filled with grapes. The tree which moves some to tears of joy is in the eyes of others only a green thing which stands in the way.

Some see nature all ridicule and deformity, and by these I shall not regulate my proportions; and some scarce see nature at all. But to the eyes of the man of imagination, nature is imagination itself. As man is, so he sees. As the eye is formed, such are its powers. You certainly are mistaken when you say the visions of fancy are not to be found in this world. To me, this world is all one continued vision of fantasy or imagination and I feel flattered when I am told so."

Ah yes.. AND THE GOSPEL OF THOMAS... i UPLOADED A GOOD DOCUMENTY ABOUT IT.. BUT IN PIECES.. BECAUSE SOME OF IT WAS ONLY IN DUTCH.. SO NOW THERE ARE MORE THAN 10 SECTIONS.. I CUT OUT FROM THE ORIGINAL DOC.. BUT ALL VERY GOOD STUFF.. that might interest you..... a man discovered the books when he was digging for fertilizer.. another strange coincidence.. the NT talks of adding some fertilizer to the tree that has bore no fruit.. before making the decision TO CUT IT DOWN.. like i was talking about in my last message.. STRANGE!

The Discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library - The Gospel of Thomas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S21ClG44ftY

UM.. AND.. How come when I paste a link to a video.. I don't get a nice picture.. like you do.. I want a nice picture too.. Do I need to pray.. to get one.. or are there some magical words I could use.. ?

Or some special code.. that I need to insert.. ?

I am not very good with computers.. I just manage to get by.. most of the time.. when the gods are willing.. that is..:-)


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"And it came to be pretty in its greatness, in the length of its foliage, for its root system proved to be over many waters." - Ezekiel 31.7


aghogday
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15 Mar 2021, 5:33 pm



SMiLes to Automatically Link a Preview Picture of A Youtube Video
Just Highlight the Link And Press the Youtube Button on the Left
Top Row of buttons in the Edit Screen And it Will Put in the Code
Automatically to make the Preview Picture of the Video Appear..:)

For me the Gospel of Thomas Is Interesting as it could Have Easily

Been Written According to the Pen Name of Lao Tzu and the Tao

or Buddha And His Middle Way So Many Verses Reflect

Those Two Philosophies of Basically

Finding What Science

Describes As A Transient

Hypo-Frontality A Flow that

Escapes So Much Neo-Cortical

Control in Contemplation of Transcending

Meditation That May Be Found Through Many Avenues

Any Avenue That Puts one into the State of Flow Where of

Course There is an Entire Spectrum/Colors of Depth Depending

On Individual Practice and View of the Individual UNiVeRSE As All Views

Are Unique And Practically Supernatural Different UNiVeRSES For the Person

Sitting Next to Us Who Cannot Fully Enter Ours Yet We Use Symbols And Feelings

And Senses to Reach Out to Others to Find Our Best Middle Way of Finding Mutual

And Consensual Understanding in Connecting this Way Best In Peaceful Loving Harmony

And of Course With Enough Bio-Feed Back in Meditation the Will Developed to Generate

Our Own Beneficial Neurochemicals and Neurohormones Making Our Own Heaven's

Within Real at the Force of our Relative Free Wills And in this Transcending State

Of Consciousness More of Our Subconscious Human Potentials Surface From

The Vast Ocean We only Surf Above And The Deep Relates Existence

In What Seems indeed Brings Imagination For Creativity in Fruition

Never Seen And Done Before even Brief Sporadic

Meditations Will Increase Creativity and

Productivity 500% in Focus as Science

Shows Fine Tuning

All of Cognitive

Executive Functioning

Through Meditative Writing and

Dancing i Stay in Flow Most All of the Days

While i'm Wide Awake in this Dreamtime State of

Mind that really Means We Just Use More of our Minds in Focus

The Parts that some

Folks only

Get short

Glimpses

of if any at all

or Just Remain Like

Zombies Attached to the

Stories of Others... The Gospel

of Thomas is Not Considered A Gnostic

Gospel by Some As Technically Gnostic
Christianity as Widely Understood Now

Sees Reality as Evil and Not Holy

And Sacred to Enjoy as

Heaven Now

The Jesus

of That Gospel

Basically Says find it within

Yourself As Luke 17:21 Says

Find the Kingdom of God And Heaven

Within Yes this Contemplation this Meditative

Flow that Expands all of Our Human Potentials

And Finally Allows us to Escape the Old Cocoon

of the Neo-Cortical Brain and Literally Open Up our

Minds like

A UNiVeRSE

All Closed Up As Shop Before...

Other Cross Cultural Terms Do Include

Tao, Satori, Samadhi, Prana, A Force Of Chi

As Basically Living in Dreamtime is Living Pure Faith

As the Ocean Becomes The Wave that is the Water Our Soul Guides Us Now

In

Connecting

With All that is

Transcending Far beyond

Most 'Walmart Shopping Considerations of Life'..

And Of Course What Makes The Gospel of Thomas

Unique is While there is Deep Metaphor of Free Verse

Poetry There Are no Myths to Relate as The Magic of

Our Real Realities is Truly Beyond Any Work of Art Created Yet at Least

And Of Course Held Safe Buried Since the First Centuries Not Subject to so

Many Editorial/Scribe Mistakes/Changes in Copy Over Centuries Both Innocent and Intentional Too

Yeah it is kinda Ironic That A Muslim Peasant Named Muhammad Ali Found the Sacred Texts

While

Digging

For Fertilizer



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A Gardener
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17 Mar 2021, 2:41 pm

Rexi wrote:
God is inside and feeling God is no proof of God existing. You feel it because you want him to be real.
Please bring real proof.


As you can imagine.. proving the existence of what the word GOD means.. can be complex.. because the word means different things to different people.. and somehow I need to bring all these diverse opinions together.. as a singular understanding.. ITS CHALENGING.. BUT FUN TO TRY.. YOU SHOULD HANG AROUND HERE.. WE SEEM TO BE GETTING ON FINE.. OPPOSITION IS A GOOD THING.. AND AS BLAKE SAID.. IT IS TRUE FRIENDSHIP..

First.. I will begin with an introduction..

I have divided this proof into three parts.. after defining the word - GOD - as clearly as I can in the introduction - (semantics matter) - in order to establish what we are talking about.. and thereby avoid any possible confusion.. of it having anything to do with the supernatual.. as literal christians.. and athiests.. mistakenly believe..

1. Biblical - (GOD DEFINED AS - In the HEART)..

2. Mystcal.. - (GOD DEFINED AS - In the CONSCIOUS MIND).. and finally...

3. Science / Philosophical - (GOD DEFINED AS - A MYSTERIOUS FORCE.. THAT WE OBSERVE.. regulating the universe.. (AND EVEN THE MULTIVERSE.. IF IT EXISTS.. and.. it is logical to believe it does)

So.. please wait until I have finished posting these parts.. before you come at me.. guns blazing.. only to confound me.. with some of your own.. well considered arguments.. until I fall down dead.. at your feet.. be patient... or I will suffer from information over-load.. and possibly.. EXPLODE..

When someone says.. Can you prove God exists.. what they really mean is.. Can you prove what the word GOD is referring to.. exists.. because - GOD - IS JUST A WORD.. A SYMBOL THAT WE USE TO REPRENSENT SOMETHING GREATER THAN WE ARE.. especially when we are speaking... poetically.

For Example.. When Eric Clapton met Jimi Hendrix.. Hendrix was proved to be GOD.. I met God once.. and got his autograph..



We cannot prove the word EGG exists.. We can only prove what it represents.. the EGG itself.. exists.. if you get my drift..

You are not clear.. which concept of God would you like me to prove.. since.. many of them.. if not all.. are SELF-EVIDENT.. so do not require proof.. All they require is understanding.. based on what both science.. and philosophy.. AND OUR OWN EXPERIENCE - teaches us.. That EVERYTHING IS A ONENESS.. OF WHICH EACH OF US IS A PART OF.. hence.. poetically speaking.. "We are god's children".. is a metaphor... meaning we are ALL part of.. ALL THERE IS.. EVEN BEYOND SPACE-TIME.. THAT IS..

WE ARE FAR MORE THAN WE CAN EVER IMAGINE.. AND GOD IS TRULY WITHIN.. YOU

FIRST - SOME DEFINITIONS OF WHAT THE WORD - GOD - MEANS TO SOME PEOPLE - Below is one of my favorite definitions I use.. when I am debating..

All of Existence is Itself a part of God - God is the Sum of ALL Natural Processes – The Ground of ALL Being - Omnipresence, the Supreme.. or Ultimate Reality. The Creative and Controlling Force in the Universe - The Life Force - The Force regarded as causing and regulating the Phenomena of the World by the Universal Natural Laws - God is both Outside.. and Inside.. Space-Time. Not subject to the cycle of Birth and Death - The Ultimate, the Absolute, Infinite and Eternal….. ENERGY and FORCE…

The word – GOD – functions as a SYMBOL.. representing.. the underlying Unity.. and.. or.. as a METAPHOR.. representing a personification of a Motivating Power.. of a Value System.. that functions in Human Life.. and in the Universe.

The Force.. and Energy.. that supports the World - A personification of the Energy.. or Force.. that seems to regulate the Physical Universe - An anthropomorphic idea whose dynamism.. and symbolism.. are filtered through the medium of the psyche..

“We are inseparable from nature. God is the living fabric of the universe.” - wrote.. Author Unknown

"The full meaning of life, the collective meaning of all human desires, is fundamentally a mystery beyond our grasp. As a young man, I chafed at this state of affairs. But by now I have made peace with it. I even feel a certain honor to be associated with such a mystery." - Eugene Wigner


SO.. WHICH OF THESE GOD CONCEPTS DO YOU REQUIRE PROOF?

I am happy to help.. Your wish is my command.. and I can be flexible.. but super natural beings are not allowed.. They are excluded from my definitions list entirely.. if you do not understand why.. You are free to ask..

Below is Joseph Campbell explaining how you can experience God inside you.. AND WHAT HE IS SAYING IS REALLY GOOD ADVICE.. AND TRUE.. Joseph is great.. I like to watch his vids on utube.. a very wise man.. who once said...

"How does the ordinary person come to the transcendent? For a start, I would say, study poetry. Learn how to read a poem. You need not have the experience to get the message, or at least some indication of the message. It may come gradually."

"Anyone who has had an experience of mystery knows that there is a dimension of the universe that is not that which is available to his senses. Seek to know the power that is within you. Opportunities to find deeper powers within ourselves come when life seems most challenging." - "The idea of Buddha consciousness is that all beings are Buddha beings, and your whole function in meditation and everything else is to find that Buddha consciousness WITHIN and live out of that, instead of the interests of the eyes and ears. I don't have to have faith, I have experience. "

"When before the beauty of a sunset or of a mountain you pause and exclaim, ‘Ah,’ you are participating in divinity. Such a moment of participation involves a realization of the wonder and sheer beauty of existence. People living in the world of nature experience such moments every day. They live in the recognition of SOMETHING THAT IS SO MUCH GREATER than the human dimension.

God is within you. You yourself are your creator." - "You've got to find the force inside you. It is within you that the divine lives. You are more than you think you are. There are dimensions of your being and a potential for realization and consciousness that are not included in your concept of yourself. Your life is much deeper and broader than you conceive it to be here. What you are living is but a fractional inkling of what is really within you, what gives you life, breadth, and depth."

"It may be a species of impudence to think that the way you understand God is the way God is. We keep thinking of deity as a kind of fact, somewhere; God as a fact. God is simply our own notion of something that is symbolic of transcendence and mystery. The mystery is what’s important. What is a god? A god is a personification of a motivating power of a value system that functions in human life and in the universe." said.. Joseph Campbell


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“I have no responsibility to live up to what others expect of me. That's their mistake, not my failing.” - “There is no authority who decides what is a good idea.”― Richard Feynman

"And it came to be pretty in its greatness, in the length of its foliage, for its root system proved to be over many waters." - Ezekiel 31.7


Last edited by A Gardener on 17 Mar 2021, 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.