White privilege isn't real - Jordan Peterson

Page 6 of 20 [ 316 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 20  Next

Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

20 Feb 2021, 11:58 pm

Pretty sure the privilege only pertains to the culture that it is a part of, outside of different cultural standards of living, and it is rather silly to take white privilege as being a broad statement that is meant to apply to cultures that would not provide that privilege. It is rather intellectually dishonest to try and disprove concepts of white privilege by bring up examples of other cultures where the privilege is not implied to be a part of.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


Jiheisho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2020
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,507

20 Feb 2021, 11:59 pm

Pepe wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
White people certainly have advantages over minorities when all other factors are equal.

But if we compare a disabled white person to an able non-white person, or a queer white person to a heterosexual non-white person; we'd find that both possess certain privileges the other does not.

And surely no rational person actually believes that a homeless white person has more privileges than a non-white middle class person.

I think what goes wrong in many conversations about privilege is many people don't understand the difference between demographics and individuals.


Peterson gave the example of how, in the Chinese community in china, being white wouldn't usually be an advantage.
Can anyone genuinely disagree with that statement?
Wouldn't that suggest there would be 'Asian supremacy' issues in that scenario?

For starters, I think his point is, logically speaking, that 'privilege' may not only be something pertaining to Caucasians, but that is how it is portrayed.
Once again, we have a 'binary' that is being created where it is not justified.
This seems to be a tactic of the left, btw.

So, ultimately, the concept of white privilege is null and void, in an absolute sense, at least.


Yes, you remove something from its context, then the thing does not exist. Take matter away from the universe and you will not find gravity (but yet gravity is still a thing). Brilliant argument. Congratulation, you just invented Buddhism.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

21 Feb 2021, 12:21 am

ironpony wrote:
Does white privelege exist all over the world, or are we just talking about the US? For example do white people get more privilege in a country like say Japan, or Ethiopia for random example?


If I understand what has been said, there is 'cultural privilege' in virtually all countries that have an overwhelming ethnic dominance.
In some countries, it is even written in law.
Most would not have democratic principles, however.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

21 Feb 2021, 12:24 am

Pepe wrote:
Peterson gave the example of how, in the Chinese community in china, being white wouldn't usually be an advantage.
Can anyone genuinely disagree with that statement?
Wouldn't that suggest there would be 'Asian supremacy' issues in that scenario?


Pertersen is not a cross-cultural psychologist so he wouldn't know that Chinese companies pay white people to teach English (even when English is not their first language) in favor of a black person who's first language is English or that white people are hired to attend boardroom meetings or sell products or participate in company photos purely to add prestige to the company or that Chinese films use caucasian featured Asian people with large eyes and pointy noses and that anime apply nordic features/colour to characters.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

21 Feb 2021, 12:24 am

Jiheisho wrote:
Pepe wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
White people certainly have advantages over minorities when all other factors are equal.

But if we compare a disabled white person to an able non-white person, or a queer white person to a heterosexual non-white person; we'd find that both possess certain privileges the other does not.

And surely no rational person actually believes that a homeless white person has more privileges than a non-white middle class person.

I think what goes wrong in many conversations about privilege is many people don't understand the difference between demographics and individuals.


Peterson gave the example of how, in the Chinese community in china, being white wouldn't usually be an advantage.
Can anyone genuinely disagree with that statement?
Wouldn't that suggest there would be 'Asian supremacy' issues in that scenario?

For starters, I think his point is, logically speaking, that 'privilege' may not only be something pertaining to Caucasians, but that is how it is portrayed.
Once again, we have a 'binary' that is being created where it is not justified.
This seems to be a tactic of the left, btw.

So, ultimately, the concept of white privilege is null and void, in an absolute sense, at least.


Yes, you remove something from its context, then the thing does not exist. Take matter away from the universe and you will not find gravity (but yet gravity is still a thing). Brilliant argument. Congratulation, you just invented Buddhism.


Would you agree, that in China, there would be Asian privilege?



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

21 Feb 2021, 12:27 am

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Peterson gave the example of how, in the Chinese community in china, being white wouldn't usually be an advantage.
Can anyone genuinely disagree with that statement?
Wouldn't that suggest there would be 'Asian supremacy' issues in that scenario?


Pertersen is not a cross-cultural psychologist so he wouldn't know that Chinese companies pay white people to teach English (even when English is not their first language) in favor of a black person who's first language is English or that white people are hired to attend boardroom meetings or sell products or participate in company photos purely to add prestige to the company or that Chinese films use caucasian featured Asian people with large eyes and pointy noses and that anime apply nordic features/colour to characters.


Are you saying the Chinese are racist *against* Chinese people?



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

21 Feb 2021, 12:32 am

Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Peterson gave the example of how, in the Chinese community in china, being white wouldn't usually be an advantage.
Can anyone genuinely disagree with that statement?
Wouldn't that suggest there would be 'Asian supremacy' issues in that scenario?


Pertersen is not a cross-cultural psychologist so he wouldn't know that Chinese companies pay white people to teach English (even when English is not their first language) in favor of a black person who's first language is English or that white people are hired to attend boardroom meetings or sell products or participate in company photos purely to add prestige to the company or that Chinese films use caucasian featured Asian people with large eyes and pointy noses and that anime apply nordic features/colour to characters.


Are you saying the Chinese are racist *against* Chinese people?


Their culture promotes the idea of worshipping power. White Europeans run the planet so they want to imitate everything white. For example when a Chinese emperor started foot binding his wives and concubines the barbaric practice was imitated by the common people who aspired to be like those in power despite the pain and suffering it caused for the poor women.



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 39
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

21 Feb 2021, 3:54 am

dorkseid wrote:
When I lived in Libya, most people treated me well. Non-white foreigners were treated very differently than I was.

I can't speak for everywhere in the world, however.

ironpony wrote:
Oh well it's just that if there is criticism of it in other nations, it's not making headlines near as much as the white privilege one. People just keep talking about white privilege a lot right now, but no one is talking about it in other places. So that is why I felt it wasn't getting near as much criticism because no one else seems to be talking about it other than white privilege.


If you're getting your news from America, it's going to place a lot more focus on what's going on there than other parts of the world.

cyberdad wrote:
Japan has native-privilege not white-privilege but to a Japanese mind white > non-Japanese so they are allies


Yes. But Japanese is still > white.

What I don't understand is why do countries like Japan not get criticized for their immigration policies as much as Western countries do.


That's true I see your point. So basically then other races have privileges over one another all of the world then? So in a country like Japan or China, there is Asian privileges over other races or in countries in Africa, there is African privilege over other races...

If this is true though, then why do people in the US complain about white privilege, if other races have their privileges all over the world. Doesn't it all even out then, and therefore why complain about white privilege, when it all evens out all over the world?



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

21 Feb 2021, 4:07 am

cyberdad wrote:
Quote:

Are you saying the Chinese are racist *against* Chinese people?


Their culture promotes the idea of worshipping power. White Europeans run the planet so they want to imitate everything white. For example when a Chinese emperor started foot binding his wives and concubines the barbaric practice was imitated by the common people who aspired to be like those in power despite the pain and suffering it caused for the poor women.


Dude.
China isn't subservient to the western powers.
Their 'Wolf Warrior' diplomacy proves that.

Quote:
Wolf warrior diplomacy - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Wolf_warrior_diplomacy
Wolf warrior diplomacy (Chinese: 战狼外交; pinyin: zhànláng wàijiāo) describes an aggressive style of diplomacy purported to be adopted by Chinese diplomats in the 21st century, under Chinese leader Xi Jinping's administration. The term was coined from a Rambo-style Chinese action film, Wolf Warrior 2.


Dude.
They want to be the 'Top Dog'. 8O



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

21 Feb 2021, 4:15 am

ironpony wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
When I lived in Libya, most people treated me well. Non-white foreigners were treated very differently than I was.

I can't speak for everywhere in the world, however.

ironpony wrote:
Oh well it's just that if there is criticism of it in other nations, it's not making headlines near as much as the white privilege one. People just keep talking about white privilege a lot right now, but no one is talking about it in other places. So that is why I felt it wasn't getting near as much criticism because no one else seems to be talking about it other than white privilege.


If you're getting your news from America, it's going to place a lot more focus on what's going on there than other parts of the world.

cyberdad wrote:
Japan has native-privilege not white-privilege but to a Japanese mind white > non-Japanese so they are allies


Yes. But Japanese is still > white.

What I don't understand is why do countries like Japan not get criticized for their immigration policies as much as Western countries do.


That's true I see your point. So basically then other races have privileges over one another all of the world then? So in a country like Japan or China, there is Asian privileges over other races or in countries in Africa, there is African privilege over other races...

If this is true though, then why do people in the US complain about white privilege, if other races have their privileges all over the world. Doesn't it all even out then, and therefore why complain about white privilege, when it all evens out all over the world?


Leftist ideology.
I do believe there are pockets of 'privilege', but not all of it is white.

The US southern states still have a racial problem, in particular, I believe.
Please correct me if I am wrong. 8)



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 39
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

21 Feb 2021, 4:23 am

Well another thing is, is that I find this white privilege thing kind of hard to believe. There are a lot of white people I know that are not poor, and not well off, and a lot of rich celebrities that are not white. So it seems like it's all really a case by case basis and not a generalized thing, or am I wrong?



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,469
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

21 Feb 2021, 4:31 am

Well I don't believe him...

If white privilege isn't real why do black people get treated worse by cops generally? I mean I have mental health issues so I am also in a class that is typically more abused by police and yeah if you are homeless and white the whiteness wont protect you. So sure black people are not the only ones who get worst treatment from cops but even so they are more systematically targeted.

I mean you know why marijuana is illegal? well sure it is getting legalized across states now, but it was basically illegal because racism. Because presumably black blues and jazz musicians were drugging white girls with it to get them to sleep with them...interestingly enough marijuana is not a drug that actually makes people too messed up to know what is going on generally. So yeah it was basically just racism some white people where offended about other white people interacting with black people and made up horror stories about it.

Having been drugged once myself I can say for sure it was not marijuana that they used. It is just a good thing I had only gone over to have a couple drinks and then had it planned to go have my sister do my hair at her work next door to that bar. That was kinda bad though cause well of course she didn't know I had gotten drugged and I also did not know...but it was at her work and I was all like partially passed out and she initially was kind of angry because she thought maybe I had like done some like hard drugs before going into her work. But to my knowledge I had only had like two beers and a shot of liquor while just waiting till she was ready to do my hair I even remember having the plan to limit it to that so I wasn't too tipsy for having my haircut. But then she felt bad of assuming that when I told her someone must have drugged my drink. She even had to tell some people at her work that, that is what happened and she did not just invite a druggy to the hair salon.


_________________
We won't go back.


Last edited by Sweetleaf on 21 Feb 2021, 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 39
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

21 Feb 2021, 4:33 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well I don't believe him...

If white privilege isn't real why do black people get treated worse by cops generally? I mean I have mental health issues so I am also in a class that is typically more abused by police and yeah if you are homeless and white the whiteness wont protect you. So sure black people are not the only ones who get worst treatment from cops but even so they are more systematically targeted.

I mean you know why marijuana is illegal? well sure it is getting legalized across states now, but it was basically illegal because racism. Because presumably black blues and jazz musicians were drugging white girls with it to get them to sleep with them...interestingly enough marijuana is not a drug that actually makes people too messed up to know what is going on generally. So yeah it was basically just racism some white people where offended about other white people interacting with black people and made up horror stories about it.


Oh okay, now I am only going by what I see and my POV, but when I watch American footage of American police, a lot of the cops are themselves, black, so do black cops really treat black people worse as well?



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

21 Feb 2021, 5:04 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Because presumably black blues and jazz musicians were drugging white girls with it to get them to sleep with them...


I'm assuming this is sarcasm?



GGPViper
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,880

21 Feb 2021, 5:12 am

Looks like white privilege is indeed very real, with life-threatening results:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/20/heal ... index.html



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,469
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

21 Feb 2021, 5:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Because presumably black blues and jazz musicians were drugging white girls with it to get them to sleep with them...


I'm assuming this is sarcasm?


I wish it was, but no that was actually one of the reasons that marijuana was outlawed...I wrote a college paper about marijuana and that was in various peer reviewed articles I had access to with going to the college. It was not true...but with the racism at the time it was convincing enough for many people. Like it was fear mongering to get people to agree with outlawing it.

A little about it:
"Anslinger claimed that the majority of pot smokers were minorities, including African Americans, and that marijuana had a negative effect on these “degenerate races,” such as inducing violence or causing insanity. Furthermore, he noted, “Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.” Perhaps even more worrisome to Anslinger was pot’s supposed threat to white women’s virtue. He believed that smoking pot would result in their having sex with black men."
https://www.britannica.com/story/why-is ... d%20States.

Not sure quite who that guy was but, yeah some pretty messed up thinking there.

Also white people smoke just as much pot as minorities...


_________________
We won't go back.