White privilege isn't real - Jordan Peterson

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Deinonychus
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25 Feb 2021, 2:37 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
@ Pepe - You're as funny as ever. Whining about all-or-nothing thinking, but acting like "white privilege" either applies equally everywhere, or doesn't exist at all - as opposed to the reality that it is not a hard and fast rule, but rather a factor that can affect things in various situations. Pointing out that white privilege can't exist in america cos white people were treated poorly in south africa, seems to fail to notice that america is not africa. I don't know if you know that, but america and africa are different places. It would be like saying kangaroos don't exist cos you never see them in siberia.

It's weird how nuance either does or doesn't matter to you, depending on the situation. When it comes to things like "nazis" or "fascism", you're all jive and philosophical, "what IS fascism anyways... words are just words... nothing is knowable for certain..." - but then when you're trying to defend your narrative, suddenly reality goes all rigid, snaps hard into place, and things just are the way you say they are, because you say they are, because you say they are, because you say they are... 8)

^ This.

I don't think I'll be commenting here any further btw. I question whether the thread was ever intended to be fruitful, and I'm literally tired.


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uncommondenominator
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25 Feb 2021, 3:12 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The problem is not white privilege but all sorts of discrimination against non whites. It is not privilege to get what you deserve, it is not a privilege to get stuff one rightly earned. White people are more likely to be fairly treated and black people are more likely to be unfairly treated. Why is this so hard to say? Why the insistence on using the racist term “white privilege” to describe this problem?


So, let's unpack this. "White people are more likely to be fairly treated and black people are more likely to be unfairly treated." So how is it inaccurate to say that, because of their skin color, white people are more likely to be granted the privilege of fair treatment? By it's very nature, since it relies purely on race, it IS a racist construct. Don't use racist terms to describe a racist construct? Sounds more like white people just don't like having their racism called racism, just cos they didn't MEAN to be racist. Nobody likes to admit they might have done something wrong, even unintentionally.

And as for those lovely words "deserve" and "earned". Two people go to college. One of them gets everything paid for by parents, live at home, don't have to work a job, and can just do school. Since they can take a full class load, they finish faster. Since they can focus on just school, they can do better. The other has no support, has to take out loans, work a job, pay rent and expenses, etc. They can't take a full class load, so they graduate later. They have their attention split, so they may not perform as well. They have to worry about making rent, scheduling work and classes, and more. They both still have to pass all the classes and exams to get their degrees. They both have to "earn" their degree. but one of them has to work a hellofa lot harder than the other to "earn" the EXACT same thing. Not becasue of anything THEY did, but entirely because of what their PARENTS were able to PROVIDE. Having a financial support system like that is a PRIVILEGE. You can't "work towards" being born to wealthy parents. It's not something you have control over.

That's where the word "deserve" comes in. People will often say "I DESERVE what I have!", in an almost dunning-kruger-like manner, failing to even realize just how much privilege was actually present in their outcomes. "I built this business from the ground up!" yeah, with the hundred thousand dollars your parents GAVE you. It's a lot easier to start a business when you already have the startup capital, and didn't also have to earn that 100K, too.

When you're born into a situation, and everyone around you is in that same situation, it's easy to assume that if others' situation is different, then it must be different for reason of their own doing. Like "poor people are lazy". Most people have no idea how much work it takes to live poor. Or how expensive it is to be poor.

And since we now know that, and how, generational wealth has been traditionally denied to people of color in a variety of ways, intentionally, by white people, even if YOU PERSONALLY didn't do it, white people still shouldn't get all ruffled when it gets pointed out. Even if it's not intentional, the architecture was still put in place, and the system still tends to operate along these lines, simply cos that's what it was designed to do in the first place.



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25 Feb 2021, 3:16 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
It's weird how nuance either does or doesn't matter to you, depending on the situation. When it comes to things like "nazis" or "fascism", you're all jive and philosophical, "what IS fascism anyways... words are just words... nothing is knowable for certain..." -


I think everyone on this thread has made their own contribution to the discussion in terms of the perspective they bring.

Pepe experienced bullying in school because of his German background and so is easily triggered by talk/comparisons involving nazis. But I recognise he is overcompensating sometimes

I prefer to educate Peps rather than wave my finger though. Binary thinking is something that many on the spectrum (and a lot of NTs) seem to rely on.



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25 Feb 2021, 3:21 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
So, let's unpack this. "White people are more likely to be fairly treated and black people are more likely to be unfairly treated." So how is it inaccurate to say that, because of their skin color, white people are more likely to be granted the privilege of fair treatment? By it's very nature, since it relies purely on race, it IS a racist construct.


It's so obvious you wonder why people want to avoid the issue? My own perspective is racism is a gateway to other forms of prejudice and discrimination.

A lot of people on the spectrum fail to recognise that tolerance for racism (under the guise of free speech and freedom of expression as espoused by Jordan Peterson) means you can also tolerate prejudice against disability. But then of course the same people will often turn around and claim autism isn't a disability to defend their position,



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25 Feb 2021, 3:27 pm

toadsnail wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
@ Pepe - You're as funny as ever. Whining about all-or-nothing thinking, but acting like "white privilege" either applies equally everywhere, or doesn't exist at all - as opposed to the reality that it is not a hard and fast rule, but rather a factor that can affect things in various situations. Pointing out that white privilege can't exist in america cos white people were treated poorly in south africa, seems to fail to notice that america is not africa. I don't know if you know that, but america and africa are different places. It would be like saying kangaroos don't exist cos you never see them in siberia.

It's weird how nuance either does or doesn't matter to you, depending on the situation. When it comes to things like "nazis" or "fascism", you're all jive and philosophical, "what IS fascism anyways... words are just words... nothing is knowable for certain..." - but then when you're trying to defend your narrative, suddenly reality goes all rigid, snaps hard into place, and things just are the way you say they are, because you say they are, because you say they are, because you say they are... 8)

^ This.

I don't think I'll be commenting here any further btw. I question whether the thread was ever intended to be fruitful, and I'm literally tired.


I'm sad about bumping this thread to say much the same thing. It's painfully obvious when you're posting shock-doc clickbait instead of participating in a real discussion. I have a good friend who implores me to get into op-ed crap like that. I call it what it is, op-ed crap & then I don't watch it. If someone is blasting their opinion on YouTube, it's not critical thinking to swallow it hook line & sinker.

Let's think critically on this; you're asserting that an immaterial concept doesn't exist. Well you're right, there is no such thing as that because it's a scenario, not a commodity.


Side note: MODS: I'm a white dude & I think it's really damned depressing that you stood for 20 pages of this. Hold some space FFS. This is not politics, philosophy or religion anyway, it's hate speech sugarcoated ad nauseum.


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Last edited by cberg on 25 Feb 2021, 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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25 Feb 2021, 3:32 pm

The only reason I am bumping this thread is to get people to critically think that what Jordan Peterson says isn't always correct.



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25 Feb 2021, 4:38 pm

Yeah....

This thread was created with the intent of winding people up and trolling.

Reporting it now.


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r00tb33r
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25 Feb 2021, 4:42 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Yeah....

This thread was created with the intent of winding people up and trolling.

Reporting it now.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I agree with the title of the thread. I never got any special treatment, in fact I've been discriminated against in the past. I've worked for everything I've got, and never received any freebies.


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25 Feb 2021, 4:43 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
"Withdrew for further consideration."
Now that doesn't sound like a country where the white farmers have white privilege.
There is a good chance the land will be confiscated at some point in time.

"The sword of Damocles" sort of thing. 8)


Don't get me wrong, the land grab threatened by the ANC isn't really ethical, but this is being stirred by opportunistic "Robert Mugabe type" politicians who make millions while their people starve. Instead of leadership they simply blame the white farmers to take attention away from their incompetent and corrupt government.


I agree there is a lot of corruption in the world.



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25 Feb 2021, 4:46 pm

toadsnail wrote:
Pepe wrote:
toadsnail wrote:
I'm actually surprised you're contesting this. Really wasn't expecting it. I thought it was self-evident.

I see you are into psychological arm-wrestling. 8)
I reject your presumptuous implied assertion that you have a 'lay down misere'. :mrgreen:

What you have presented is mere supposition.
Nothing more. 8)

I was stating a fact: I didn't expect you would contest the example. Otherwise I would probably have used a different one. I was actually surprised that it's not self-evident for you.



Yes, you have made it perfectly clear what your position is.
Let us agree to disagree. ;)



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25 Feb 2021, 4:48 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Just because the problem isn't quite as blatant as slavery & lynchings used to be doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Misrepresentation.
I never said it doesn't exist.
I said it is not as ubiquitous as some make it out to me.



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25 Feb 2021, 4:48 pm

cberg wrote:
Side note: MODS: I'm a white dude & I think it's really damned depressing that you stood for 20 pages of this.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't. :wink:

My own side note: threads which are started with just a YouTube video are seldom productive.
IOW leaving it to YouTube to make a case isn't a very good idea, because if the poster of such a video really had something to say then there would be no reason to have left it to a video to say it.

That said, it seems clear this thread has ground to a halt so I'll take it out the back and shoot it now.
Locked.


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