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cyberdad
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09 Jul 2021, 2:02 am

dorkseid wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't like it when sex becomes a wanton thing, devoid of emotion.

Then it becomes like masturbation----only worse.


Sometimes wanton sex is the only option someone has.


Masturbation is ok as well.



GGPViper
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09 Jul 2021, 4:16 am

dorkseid wrote:
I remember some guy once told me a story, about a woman whom God sent to Hell because she didn't forgive her husband for cheating. The reasoning was that not forgiving her husband is bad because God forgives.

But. like seriously, when?! When did God ever simply forgive anyone? Notice how even in this story God did not forgive the woman. How blatantly this story contradicts its own narrative is absolutely hilarious. :lol: According to Christianity, God was unable to forgive humanity without requiring the blood sacrifice of his son. Wouldn't that mean that the woman in the story, in order to emulate God's "forgiveness", would be required to torture and murder a child of her own as well?

Just think about how absurd this would sound in any other context. Imagine, if you will, that the leader of your country decided to pardon every criminal and release them from their sentences. But decided that the only way they could do that was by first torturing and executing an innocent man to "pay the price for their sins". Would this make any sense to you?

So let me see if I can get this straight: first God creates humans, supposedly giving us whatever characteristics we possess. But after that God decides that he is unhappy with the creation that he himself designed. And instead of accepting responsibility for his own screw-up he blames us for having whatever flaws he designed us with and decides that we deserve eternal damnation for being the way he made us. So he creates this horrible place called Hell that exists for no other purpose than to be an expansive sadistic torture chamber where he can eternally punish us for the crime of existing. But because he loves us so much he decides that he has to save us from the Hell that he himself decided to damn us to in the first place. But in order to solve this problem that only exists because he himself chose to create it, he decided for some absurd reason that he is required to sacrifice an innocent person first.

Can anyone explain to me how any remotely intelligent human being can actually think any of this makes a lick of sense?! ! !

If we are inherently sinful, then that it is because God created us that way. Either this was by design, meaning God is malicious; or it was by accident, meaning God is fallible. If it was a mistake, God is punishing us for his error. And if it was by design, then God deliberately created us with qualities that he knew he would punish us for. Apologists like to argue that we choose to be sinful, but then they insist that it is impossible to choose not to be sinful in order to justify the need for accepting Jesus.

And if God does love all humanity, why couldn't he simply forgive everyone? Who is it that decided God cannot forgive us without a blood sacrifice? Either God himself just arbitrarily decided that such a barbaric and sadistic ritual is required, or he answers to an authority higher than himself that dictated this absurd rule to him. Christian apologists argue that it is God's "holiness" that requires a blood cost for sin, but this is just more nonsense. Was it God who arbitrarily decided that holiness demands this, or was that dictated to him by an authority higher than himself?

Any god who would sadistically torture people or demand that a barbaric blood ritual is required to forgive anyone is not and cannot be moral, loving, or forgiving.

The problem is called Theodicy and/or The Problem of Evil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

It is a general challenge for all monotheistic religions, and not just Christianity.

As for polytheistic religions, though...:

Image



magz
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09 Jul 2021, 4:46 am

Hey, Loki (the Norse one) isn't Evil, he's Chaos!


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09 Jul 2021, 8:10 am

magz wrote:
Hey, Loki (the Norse one) isn't Evil, he's Chaos!
Chaotic Neutral: Follows whimsy; takes care of himself; very spontaneous.


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magz
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09 Jul 2021, 8:14 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Hey, Loki (the Norse one) isn't Evil, he's Chaos!
Chaotic Neutral: Follows whimsy; takes care of himself; very spontaneous.

That's exactly how I interpret the Norse Loki.
Also, he's a prankster and kind of a personification of Murphy's law.
But it's not the same as evil.


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kraftiekortie
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09 Jul 2021, 9:04 am

I was speaking of masturbation in terms of the lack of intimacy with another person-----not as something which is "amoral." It is a release without intimacy with another person, to satisfy one's natural urges. There's nothing "wrong" with it.

Sex without feeling something for your partner, and merely to "get your rocks off," might as well be masturbation. It's a waste of effort, in my opinion. And if it's with a prostitute, it can get plenty expensive.



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09 Jul 2021, 10:58 am

All religion seems pretty absurd to me. Cartesian dualism makes no sense to me. The idea that believing in the existence of some supposed deity, without any hard evidence, is a prerequisite for somehow surviving death and existing forever after in a state of exstacy, is completely alien to everything my observations tell me. Faith makes almost no sense to me - why should I try to tell myself I know a thing that I don't know?

Perhaps the most ludicrous idea in Christianity, for me, is the one that says Jesus died so that God could forgive us. It only makes sense to one who is pretty sold on the idea of sacrificing to a deity in order to get a favour out of them, and even assuming that crazy notion, it still doesn't work because the thing we're supposed to have sacrificed was the deity's son, i.e. nailed him to a piece of wood and watched him slowly die in agony.



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09 Jul 2021, 12:01 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I was speaking of masturbation in terms of the lack of intimacy with another person-----not as something which is "amoral." It is a release without intimacy with another person, to satisfy one's natural urges. There's nothing "wrong" with it.

Sex without feeling something for your partner, and merely to "get your rocks off," might as well be masturbation. It's a waste of effort, in my opinion. And if it's with a prostitute, it can get plenty expensive.


I got that.

My point is that some people don't have the option of having an intimate partner, because they are undesirable for some reason. For instance, if they have a disability.



kraftiekortie
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09 Jul 2021, 1:12 pm

The thing is:

We both have the same disability: Autism.

You are not intellectually disabled, and neither am I.

I'm short and somewhat chubby. I don't have great social skills.

What I do have...is the attitude that I'm not inferior to any one person by virtue of being short, autistic, etc. I was bullied pretty severely as a child and adolescent (probably didn't go through what you went through, though). There were many attempts to convey to me how "inferior," "ret*d," etc. I am. I never, ever believed one word.

Being autistic does NOT make you a "defective" person. Anybody who tells you that needs to be hung by their you know whats.



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09 Jul 2021, 4:39 pm



Obviously, What's Missing in All Patriarchal Religions Is A Woman's Touch;
Yep, Particularly in Christianity Too For Today i Found That A Famous Catholic YouTube Public
Relations Bishop My Age Has Less Emotional Intelligence Than A Young South African Woman at 17 Years Old...

He Held 'Stiff' To the Claim That The Value of Beauty is in the Object Instead of the Eye of the Beholder of the Beauty

As He Intimated That If A Person Doesn't Like the Classical Literature And Other Art He Likes; If A Person Doesn't

Appropriately in Appreciation of Language Give Credit to A Part of Nature Like A Waterfall More Than that it is

Pretty That They Are At Fault and Live in a Smaller World Than

Folks Who See

Objective

Value in The

Things of the World

And Ideas Beyond the Actual

Experience of The Feelings And Senses

Generating Within That Science Surely Shows

Now We Have the Potential in Autotelic Flow With

Plentiful Frission Along the Way With Bio-FeedBack of

Whatever Active Meditation That Brings The Feeling Sensing

State of Nirvana And Bliss As Commonly Described in Metaphor in

Other Countries

Outside of

His Views

And Any Person

With Any Appreciable

Amount of Emotional Intelligence

Will Surely Relate The Fact Now That

We All Experience Reality Differently Depending

on Nature and Nurture too Continuously Changing Now

Yet You See

If He Can Make

Believe There is Objective

Value in the World He Will Surely

Be Able to Fulfill His Objects of Value

to insure the Folks In the Congregation stay

Like Objective
Values of Sticks

And Carrots After

Death Like Heaven And

Hell Just Because Some old

Book of Revelation Speaks to

It Thousands Of Years Ago by

Ghost Authors and Innumerable

Scribe Copy Mistakes And Intentional Changes

Along the Way For Whoever Controls the Pen in Illiterate

Days Of Humankind Controlling The Changes of the Story

Yet to come or stay the same..

i Picture A Group of Old Dudes

In the "Hardee's Breakfast Club"

(Older Bible Writers/Scribes)

Trying to Figure out What

Love Even is As Their

Big Daddy's Told 'em Big

Boys Don't Cry Big Boys Don't

Cry and if they Smile too Much with

A Golden Heart of Love They are So-Called

'Queer' of Course Why the Enemies Who Don't Convert

Again End up in the Lake of Fire Forevermore as Hey

Toxic Patriarchy Requires An Enemy to Naturally Destroy...

Imagine

How Different

The Whole Damn

Still Rotting Show

Would Be if A Woman's

Touch Was more a Part of the Whole Show...

This Much is Likely True, Love Would Be in the 'House' For Real...

Anyway in my 9.4 MiLLioN Word Longest Epic Long Form Poem Bible

i Stick With

Women's Input

Mostly And Let

'Flying Mud' Pass by...

You Know, All that 'Gehenna Unreformed Grinch Stuff'...

i've Heard So Much C88P in my Life in 'Trump Town USA' Like

Single Mothers Aren't Fit to Raise Children And If Children Can't

Pick Up their Boot Straps to Fulfill the Protestant Work Ethic They Deserve

to Frigging Starve

Yeah, Representatives

of The Church Talking About

Their Own Damned Children

And Then Talk About the Sanctity

of Unbreathing Life While Breathing

Life Can Go To Hell Now If it Can't Fulfill The Protestant Work-Ethic...

Yes, There Are Plenty of Resources to Go Around For A Culture of LoVE iN Deed...

Obviously, Always More Likely To Find that With A Woman's Touch; Nature of the 'Old CuLTuRaL Beast'...



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09 Jul 2021, 5:59 pm

Wait, Christianity hates sex? Since effing WHEN? I’m a Christian. I got laid this morning, and probably will again later tonight! :lol:

Anyone who says sex is bad doesn’t know the Bible. Here’s the very first commandment given to human beings:

https://biblehub.com/genesis/1-28.htm

First chapter of Genesis, y’all, it’s right there, long before “I am the Lord your God.” I myself have impregnated a woman 5 times resulting in 4 live births. 2 boys, 2 girls, and she wants a tie breaker. The first commandment is serious business.

Oh...and has anyone considered the ancient Hebrew penalty for casual fornication? I don’t mean rape, screwing an engaged woman or married woman in the adultery context. I mean sex with your fiancée or any woman who isn’t spoken for otherwise. Hint: there’s not one. All the Bible says is that a woman can be put to death for lying about her virginity and that a man forfeits his right to a divorce if he accepts his non-virgin wife. If he takes her virginity, he SHOULD marry her. But it’s not as if the ancient Israelites had Hymen Police running around checking girls and monitoring beds for squeaky springs. Sexual purity was “proper.” Impurity was never an automatic death sentence. I’m not encouraging adultery or fornication in this day and age because I think that if it was ever wrong then, it’s still wrong now. Morality doesn’t change. But a totally judgmental attitude and hatred of people for taking pleasure in copulation is just wrong.

Full disclosure, yes, I’m extremely strict with my own children on this matter, they know this, they accept this. They make their rules when they leave my care. If they want to run wild and get pregnant, that’s on them, but teaching morality and keeping them focused on education and other important things and keeping them safe is my responsibility.

If that’s the direction they go after high school and college...

I. Don’t. Need. To. Know! :lol:



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09 Jul 2021, 7:10 pm

I don't recall that anyone in this thread said that Christianity hates sex. It clearly doesn't. But it is certainly obsessed with controlling it.

Do you not think that a death penalty for adultery is excessive? How about a death penalty for lying?

I'm curious about what you consider the parameters of adultery to be. Do you consider a situation that involves polyamory or any other arrangement in which one or both spouses engage with other sexual partners with the knowledge and express permission of the other spouse to be adulterous?

You say that morality doesn't change. So does that mean that the genocides of Midian, Jericho, and Amalek in biblical times were immoral? Or is genocide moral in the modern day?



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09 Jul 2021, 7:42 pm

AngelRho wrote:
All the Bible says is that a woman can be put to death for lying about her virginity and that a man forfeits his right to a divorce if he accepts his non-virgin wife. If he takes her virginity, he SHOULD marry her. But it’s not as if the ancient Israelites had Hymen Police running around checking girls and monitoring beds for squeaky springs. Sexual purity was “proper.” Impurity was never an automatic death sentence. I’m not encouraging adultery or fornication in this day and age because I think that if it was ever wrong then, it’s still wrong now. Morality doesn’t change. But a totally judgmental attitude and hatred of people for taking pleasure in copulation is just wrong.


Isn't that just kind of archaic and unfair? I figure women were pressured to be virgins before getting married so of course some might lie to avoid shame...but so they get freaking killed for it?

Yeah I just don't see what good can be taken from that..., aside for it being a good example of people we probably should not try to take after these days.


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cyberdad
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09 Jul 2021, 8:19 pm

God of the bible has different laws/standards for men and women.



cyberdad
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09 Jul 2021, 8:27 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Sex without feeling something for your partner, and merely to "get your rocks off," might as well be masturbation. It's a waste of effort, in my opinion. And if it's with a prostitute, it can get plenty expensive.


Its strange how masturbation is often condemned, I think there is a scripture somewhere that says spilling one's seed is a sin.



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09 Jul 2021, 8:28 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Sex without feeling something for your partner, and merely to "get your rocks off," might as well be masturbation. It's a waste of effort, in my opinion. And if it's with a prostitute, it can get plenty expensive.


Its strange how masturbation is often condemned, I think there is a scripture somewhere that says spilling one's seed is a sin.


Wasn't that in the context of coitus interruptus though?


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