Why Are Right Wing Men So Sad?

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I don't mean here. I'm not criticising anyone here. It's a change in public perception over the last few decades, in advertising, in media, and even in education. I feel the same way about misogyny. I'm not defending men or women, but rather wishing they were treated more equally in the absence of criminal behaviour or other harmful activity.

Watch any TV commercial with a man and wife. The woman is depicted as smarter, more savvy, and more skilled. The man is shown as a caricature who doesn't know how to cook or clean, file his taxes, complete a home repair, or raise his kids. My daughter's generation (1990s) became so hyper-feminist that many of her friends think men are automatically rapists, or liars, or dangerous. It's been very hard for me to temper that mindset and show her examples of men being kind or women being cruel. I wish the world judged people on their character and their conduct rather than assuming they are predisposed to one sort of personality based on their gender. Again, you know this. We all know this. But I feel like men aren't taken seriously as often as women, and it's creating an imbalance. It was necessary to address misogyny and women's rights issues. Please don't think I'm against that. But in my opinion there's been an overcorrection in our public consciousness, suggesting that there's something inherently dangerous about testosterone.

It would not surprise me if this was some kind of karmic retaliation for all those years of men claiming that any woman who was not perfectly agreeable, cheerful, and submissive was going through "that time of the month".

^ Okay, I think I understand your point.

Some people think that in order to elevate women, we need to tear men down. It's a gross mindset. Also, the state of male mental health in the U.S. is abysmal.

I can't help but believe that stuff like this is fueling the "incel" movement where young guys are seeking support and acceptance in all the wrong places.

I think a lot depends on which "right-wingers" you are talking about. The "conservatives" mentioned in the article you linked to tended to be married and to place a high value on marriage. On the other hand, the video seemed to be primarily about the Incel/MGTOW crowd.

Also, the studies the article referred to don't distinguish between center-right and extreme right.

One would expect most married white people who are happy with their lives to be basically happy with the way things are, and thus to lean center-right. On the other hand, single young people, and people who are unhappy for whatever reason, are obviously more likely than happier people to get involved in extremist politics of whatever kind, left or right.

Yes. That's my point. Equality can't be achieved by tearing men down, or suggesting women are better.

Some people use the term "toxic masculinity" to that end. They overgeneralise that testosterone / men are toxic -- rather than sexism and gender sociology as a whole.

I think you would find those sorts of tropes going back to the Flintstones, the wife needing to be savvy for her husband, I really don't think that it is new. And I think the general theme of TV commercials being set up in that way can be attributed to the goals of said commercials, where they might expect that the wife is the one staying at home watching the TV, and likely to buy into whatever they are selling, by making her feel like the smart one for doing so. Its basic marketing.

The thing is, stuff like that video you posted earlier are not about something like freedom of gender expression, in fact it specifically says that men are not acting like real men if they are liberal (The USA definition), and it puts certain importance on acting right wing and being masculine. Putting aside for now that it acted like having political beliefs other than the Left is as discriminated against as being transgender, when it is a common right wing opinion that being transgender is something like a mental illness, perversion and something kids specifically cannot be, just feels like a whole bunch of double speak. It talks about freedom, but is also the side that wants to restrict various rights, from acting against gender conforming, to body autonomy.

I have felt the pressures placed by interacting with other men, such as soon as they feel like they are talking to another man its all manly speak, over firm handshakes, and a silent judging that you might not act masculine enough. Maybe it is just that I have worked mostly with women, but they often do feel easier to talk to than men, especially if they are on the side of needing to needing to prove their manliness. At the same time there are also men/boys that have nothing to prove in terms of being masculine, that interacting with them is not like a dick measuring contest, and its mostly fine. Is there nothing more manly than a guy that doesn't have anything to prove, kind of like that saying that "real men wear pink", because they don't feel demasculinised from something like attending his daughter's tea party.

On tearing men down, I kind of wonder if there is something like an assumption then that my gender identity will being seen as something like internal misandry, sort of like how afab enbies get told that they are doing it out of some element of internal misogyny, of trying to escape their femineity because they are told that it is weakness.

I didn't write the Sears video that I posted, as you know -- and I wish it wasn't about left wing / right wing or conservative / liberal. I'm not American, I don't follow politics, I don't identify as left or right wing (I have no wings except my conscience), and I wasn't trying to support his political point of view. What I liked was the ending when he said that people were feeling pressured to conform to social scripts. I see that as relevant to the discussion of gender roles and individuality, and I wasn't trying to be political whatsoever. Either way, he's allowed his opinion about politics just like you and I are.

I appreciate your point of view, and all points of view. I've been victimised by men and by women, so my trust of either gender is conditional on people's behaviour rather than how masculine or feminine they may present, or how they promote a sociopolitical narrative. I think I'm having a rough go of it lately trying to understand people and society, or the way we rank each other in hierarchies by gender, class, etc instead of promoting a belief that diversity makes us equal.

My favourite Flintstones episode is the one where Fred and Wilma switch jobs for the day. She goes to the quarry, and he stays home to care for the house. They both learn that their work is equal, and that they were wrong about their misconceptions. Fred always learned from Wilma, but she learned just as much from him. It's interesting that you mentioned the show because it helped shape my views on equality, marriage, and cooperation.

Did anyone actually watch the video? I've been following Salari for a while. I think his K-Pop video was the first one I saw. He's very interesting and does a lot of research.

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Hmmm who are these fellows?
https://www.exposedbycmd.org/2020/12/09 ... y-we-know/
funding behind the right-wing, pro-Trump publication The Federalist has been a total mystery. Many Twitter users have asked the website’s leaders, repeatedly, “Who funds The Federalist?”

One of the political right’s biggest funding vehicles, DonorsTrust, gave $249,000 to the FDRLST Media Foundation in 2019. CMD was first to report on DonorsTrust’s 2019 tax records and on the group’s major donation to the white nationalist hate group VDARE, as well as a smaller amount to the New Century Foundation, the nonprofit behind the white nationalist publication American Renaissance.

Among their previous forays
The Federalist published story after story denying science and opposing mask wearing during the coronavirus pandemic—including one story allegedly written by an anonymous small-town mayor claiming that health officials order mask mandates for political, not scientific, reasons—Liz Uihlein minimized the virus, calling it “overhyped,” and endangered Uline workers by allegedly using lax safety practices and initially discouraging employees from working from home

How sad, literally supports the premise of the thread Mikah

There is a Grimm’s fairytale about that.The husband thinks the wife has it easier doing house chores and she thinks he has it easier doing the farm work.So they switch with disastrous and comic results.Each learns to appreciate the value of the others work.
An older lady here( now passed) made her kids switch chores .Some days the boys learned to cook, bake ,and do laundry and the girls learned how to fix flats, work with cattle and haul hay.

That's why I hate, "Who has it harder?" debates.

Both men and women face equal struggles, even if they are different.

Just speaking for myself, but the whole Karen thing isn’t just about standing up for being mistreated. It’s about a person who is being unreasonable. Standing up to someone is well and good until you actually happen to be wrong about something, and it’s important that people be honest with themselves and be respectful lest they themselves become the bullies.

The “Kyle” thing for men is only funny until it happens to actually be your name. I’ve never met anyone with that name who was ever taken seriously about anything. I feel bad for anyone who ends up being the resident b!+¢# just because momma thought that name was cute. With my own kids, I found a way out of it should I accidentally put them in a cultural trap by giving them the wrong name at the wrong time. Nicknames. I call my kids, from oldest to youngest: Buddy, Chicken Nugget, Catbug, and Phoebe.

Ah that crowd, yeah that's a whole different pit of vipers. 50 minutes though... I'll think about it.

@cyberdad

The phenomenon has been written about and the studies cited in other publications, many of them more to your taste. It isn't hard to find.

Yes, but -

Who determines what's reasonable or acceptable?
Is the Karen's reasonableness judged in relation to her intellectual or emotional ability?
Why has "Karen" become a trope or internet meme for all women who are upset in public, without context?
Why do people think it's OK to judge others without knowing the full story?
Do people ever apologise for their prejudice and say "Sorry, you aren't a Karen after all" ?

I've had to deal with some extremely unprofessional people in the past few weeks, contractors, tradespeople, and incompetent tools in a number of settings. Some are men, and some are women. None of them are doing their jobs right but I'm autistic, I have ADHD, I'm selective mute, and I have a panic disorder. I expect things to go as planned or according to contracts. I've been frustrated to the point of nuclear meltdown by the lack of professionalism or integrity many of these people espouse. I've tried to be patient and to communicate clearly in an assertive way without losing my cool. I know I'm being judged for being upset and frustrated. I'm intimidated by the fact they could label me a Karen behind the scenes, and this makes it even harder for me to speak up and be honest. I feel stifled by the fact I could become a social meme, an office joke, or be judged by my diagnoses as unstable. I resent that. What are women supposed to do when there is a true grievance and it's not taken seriously?

---

Of Course Sadness Is an Emotion; And

If It's Not Grief And Temporary Emptiness;

Lost From Emotional Regulation And Sensory

Integration, Part and Parcel of the Whole Human Feeling

Package Is Broken Indeed, By Big Daddy's Who Tell Their

Sons, "Big Boys Don't Cry or Even Smile For Joy" For No Reason

At All yet to Enjoy The Gift of Beauty This Life Will Otherwise

Be Without

Illusory Fears...

As Fear Destroys True
Strength And Will By
Foundation of Grace
Of Balance And Love
That Inhales Peace
And Exhales Love to
Give Share Care Freely
With All Love Meets and

Greets in Life Now;

Funny How This Works;

Again, Aha, HAha Funny; Not

Really Humorous As Science Shows Emotions

Precede Most of Our So-Called Rational Decisions

In Life And Well Regulated Emotions and Integrated Senses

Bring Stellar Cognitive Executive Functioning in Laser Focus

Plus Greater Short Term Working And Long Term Working Memory too...

In Other words, it's

Hard to 'Get it
All Together'

In Life, if One Leaves

Emotions and Overall

Feelings of Existence Out in the

Cold, Where Use it or Lose it, Comes into

Play to Sadly Lose in Life As The Stereotype

Goes, A "Tear In A Beer", "Looking For Love in All the Wrong Places"...

And Of course, This Applies to Women With 'Daddy Issues' too; Sadly,

As Little Girls Are used As 'Play Toys' to Abuse More Common Than Most

Folks Believe is Real; Like What Happens Under the Pews With Priests in Catholic
Churches, Where those in Authority and those Who Should Be Trusted Most Are

Damaged in A Vicious Circle of Emotional Intelligence Gone All Out of Balance In Life...

The Struggle is Real; i've Lived in Trump Town USA
Before He Even Became Famous And Is Worshipped
in the Florida Panhandle of 'Florida Men', Gaetz
And DeSataNiS too; Champions of Harming,
Raping, Maiming, And Killing Others

Through Pandemic

Ignorance As

i SpeaK Now

A State Where
Burning Masks
And Celebrating
Suffering of the Greater
Than Ignorant Is A Way of Life...

Yeah, Big Daddy, Leaving at Age 3, to
Marry a Woman Who Didn't Wanna Stay Home
to Raise Her Children in A Garden of Love; Going
To the City Park In Puberty, Middle School Age Life,

Being Told That in this Town

Boys Don't Get to Smile

And Not Unlike

The Hero, 'The Capital
Hill Policeman' Battered

With Words Like the F Word
And Not Fred For Standing Up
For Loving Smiles; Yet, Only Verbally
As i Was Approaching 6 Feet Tall Soon
Enough in 8th Grade, Something About Looking
Up that Avoids Actual Physical Abuse, at Least at
All of the 120 Pounds i Was then, Mistaken for A
Girl by the McDonald's Cashier and Taunted As A Girl
Before i Sprouted Up and my So-called Beautiful Eyes
And Eye Lashes Like A Girl Didn't Make me A Girl So Much Anymore...

Never The Less, i Caught
All of my Mother's OverFlowing

Love And Was Taunted For Being to
Soft and Kind And Nice to Folks All the
Way Through Being An Athletic Director
Of A Military Installation by the End of
My Federal Employee Working Career

Oh Yeah, And There Was that Day

At Age 37, My Only Son Ryan,

Going to Open Heart Surgery,

Only Living A Life of Pain 51 Days;

Father's Day In June of 1997;

A Surgeon With Huge Hands

Saying, "Kiss Your Baby Goodbye"...

My Father Rarely Said Anything to
me for 37 Years in our Annual Visits
to See Him; Yet that Day He Finally Gave

me the Advice, He thought i Needed Most,

Raise Him Like A Boy, as if my Mother Raised
me as a Girl; As if i never Had A Father to Give
me advice to To Tell me What the Hell That Even Means...

True, My Father Was
Half a Man; True i did
not Have the Benefits
of Rough And Tumble
Play in Youth; True, Every

Annual Visit i Wondered How
in the World Someone Could
Be As Fearless As My Father in
A Law Enforcement Career for 46 Years...

So Prejudiced Though, Against Black Folks
And Gay Folks too; Nothing Could Make
Him Happy Yet Getting Rich; And He Never
Did And Got Married 4 Times, Twice to the Same Woman...

Those of Us Who Have Experienced Toxic Patriarchy
Understand it's Real and it Comes From Ignorance;

Those of Us Who Rise Above

it Understand that A Balance

of Masculinity and Femininity

In Terms of Common Masculine

Qualities Like Logic, Reason, Action,
Firmness, Survival, Loyalty, Adventurousness,
Rationality Overall, And Strength, Are Indeed
Valuable Attributes For Both Males and or Females too

With Common Feminine Traits easy to Find with a Common
Google Search too Like Intuition, Nurturing, Healing, Gentleness,
Expressiveness, Wisdom, Patience, Emotions, And Flexibility Are Just

As Important too in a Balance of Life; So Which Way Do i Lean; In the

Middle of Course; i am a Human Being; i Enjoy Being A Man Very Much;

Yet i Surely Am not Afraid to Experience All of the Qualities Equally as

Defined

Masculine

And Feminine too;

True These Qualities also

Closely reflect the Left Brain
Rational Analytical, Yang Mind by
Metaphor Versus the Right Brain
Brain Social Empathic, Artistic
Spiritual Yin Mind; Again,

Balance Is Part of the

Reason i Come to This Very Left Brain
Systemizing Place on the Internet And

Go to India Where The Creme of the Crop

Of Young College Age Women Express Height

Of Divine Feminine Qualities Globe-Wide from What i have
Seen So far; Likely As They Are not Exposed to Abrahamic
Religions that Are Indeed Patriarchal and Toxic In Nature As Well, Overall...

Toxic is What

Harms Out of

Balance;

And of course

Indian Culture Has
Castes that are also
Toxic By Class and Poison too...

Humanity is a Work in Progress at Balance Best...

As Individuals, We Surely Will Conquer the Valley and

Mountain Within At Same Height of Balance, if Successful in This Life now...

And Indeed, In One Lifetime, Depending on the Environment At Hand; And How We Use
These Virtues As A Practice of A Great Work of Life; We Can And Will Move Back Out of Balance too..

i've surely

Gone in

Both

Directions
in this Life Now...

Folks Who LiVE iN SCaRCiTY

Are More Likely Now to Lean
Authoritarian And Conservative
In Tradition That is Rigid this way...

As it's True, Evolutionary Speaking,

As Nature Comes to Play With Nurture too;

A Warrior who Overcomes the Aversion
Of Killing Members of Their Own Species
is A Valuable Commodity of Survival too...

In Depths of SCaRCiTY for Subsistence

When Competition Becomes

A Greatest Rule of Life;

The Cold
Reality

of Souls

That Are Stripped

of Trees of Caring,

A Forest Lost of Love For All...

Generally Speaking, There is Both

Toxic Competition And Toxic Cooperation too...

Yes, Gotta Have Disagreement for Change and
Gotta Have Cooperation For Love to BREaTHE Free

And Thrive ToGeTHeR...

True...

All
A

Balance

Life is As Is...

Obviously, All So-Called
Right Wing Men And Or Women
Are Not Sad; Some Are Thriving
Within the Tradition they Live;

Ironically, my Home Life

is About As Traditional

As the Home Life of A Couple

With No Children in the 50's; i Provide

Most of the Income For Survival and Protect

my Wife Wherever We Go, 'Driving Mrs Daisy'

As With a Form of Epilepsy, She Can't Do that; Yet

She Does the Rest For Me Nurturing and Taking Care

of me; Not Much Different Really than my Mother Did;

That's All My Mother Wanted to Do; And That's All My Wife

Cares to Do to Feel Happy, Complete, Whole, And Enough...

She is Super Feminine With A Healthy Balance of All these Qualities

too; Yet She Climbed 40 Foot Trees At 8 years old to Pick Fruit looking
Over the Children's Homes Who had Food and Drink That She Did Not Have...

Yes,

She Got

All The Rough

And Tumble Play, i Never Had;

Yes, She had what it takes to

Stand by 'Her Man' in Hell for 66 Months...

Never Dismiss the Gifts We all Earn in Life From Young Thru Old...

i've Had Women Tell Me they Wished They could Marry Someone
Just like me only For the Fearless Dance i Do; Without Even A Word...

And True With
Words i've

Had Women

Tell me i am

Too Good to Be True;

Nah, Every Tear, Sweat and
Blood Makes me Who i am...

If i Have any Advice For Folks Raising

A Son; Don't Raise Him As A 'Cowboy';

Raise Him As A Poet And A Free Verse Dancer So

Fearless; He Might Not Get Rich Externally; Yet alone,

Without a Feminine
Touch to

Soothe

A Soul,

Highly Unlikely...

Common Human Archetypes

Are Servant King, Fearless Protecting Warrior,

Lover of All, And Magician For Whatever Craft Becomes

A Great Work of Life...

Again

A Balance

Of All At Best..

---

Yeah, that's an issue that I don't think lefties can do much about besides deprogramming the whole package of ideas, but I'd hope that right-leaning folks would also care about those people's well-being and try to deprogram them from that stuff too because it actually might harm the future of the right in general.

Incels and MGTOWs don't reproduce much and when they do they don't guide the kid's development so one would think the right would help to encourage men to be able to form healthy families and raise the kids they produce.