Column: Larry Elder is the Black face of white supremacy.
DW_a_mom wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
A black person should be allowed to choose how they culturally present themself.
I absolutely agree with this.
But all the other issues ... Beyond stating that a term like Uncle Tom shouldn't be a part of this discussion in this place at this time, I'm not the right person to answer.
Let me say this: it makes me extremely uncomfortable to hear members of a community use words that are considered racist towards that community if used by anyone else. I understand intellectually that it's about control and ownership, but I'm still very uncomfortable. Will I ever say something? Most likely not. My hope is that period of time it takes to transition from using the word to own it and make peace with it, to throwing it permanently in the junkyard of history, will be relatively short. I can't relate to or understand why they want to use it, but I also don't feel comfortable telling them not to use the term. That would be like telling someone how to process and resolve their own hurts. Make no mistake, there is real pain in the black community from all the cumulative history they've had to deal with, and all the progress that does not yet exist. Best I can do is not add to it.
I would think that the only people who really should use terms like Oreo or Uncle Tom would be people who see themselves as meeting the description. Not just other members of the black community, but ones who actually might meet the description. However, since I'm not black, I don't see where I have a place in that discussion at all. The people I know and listen to in the community do NOT EVER use those words. I don't have the feeling it is considered OK. There is too much painful history there. But I can't be the one to state that or debate it. That is a question that belongs to a community I am not a member of.
When my son was about four, we were both on the train and there were these black people and they kept saying the N word and my son blurted "Mom, what's a N***" and they overheard and they said to him "A word you must never say" and they must have saw the horrified look on my face when he said it. I then told my son it's a word that only black people can use and we can't say it because we don't have the right skin color. This was how I could explain a bad word to a 4 year old to explain why they can use it and we can't and to explain why it looked like a double standard to him.
He of course has forgotten about this because he asked few years later why the N word is bad and by then I was able to explain it in more detail. He must have heard it in school when he was learning about black history and the teacher explained you must ever say that word.
Surprisingly there are lot of white people out there that don't understand the severity of the word so they use it as a quotation or descriptive because they are not aware of the history of the word and they only know you can't call a black person that to put them down. Same as how you can't use the word ret*d or ret*d so they see it as bad as that but everyone is fine with it being used as a quotation. Many people treat this word as the R word.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
Mr Reynholm wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.
Any criticism of Obama was a racial slur so why the double standard?
That isn’t true.
Dox47 and I have both already explained that criticism is fine; it is the use of racist words while doing so that is not fine. We had opposite political opinions agreeing on this question; why are you stirring it up?
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
League_Girl wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
A black person should be allowed to choose how they culturally present themself.
I absolutely agree with this.
But all the other issues ... Beyond stating that a term like Uncle Tom shouldn't be a part of this discussion in this place at this time, I'm not the right person to answer.
Let me say this: it makes me extremely uncomfortable to hear members of a community use words that are considered racist towards that community if used by anyone else. I understand intellectually that it's about control and ownership, but I'm still very uncomfortable. Will I ever say something? Most likely not. My hope is that period of time it takes to transition from using the word to own it and make peace with it, to throwing it permanently in the junkyard of history, will be relatively short. I can't relate to or understand why they want to use it, but I also don't feel comfortable telling them not to use the term. That would be like telling someone how to process and resolve their own hurts. Make no mistake, there is real pain in the black community from all the cumulative history they've had to deal with, and all the progress that does not yet exist. Best I can do is not add to it.
I would think that the only people who really should use terms like Oreo or Uncle Tom would be people who see themselves as meeting the description. Not just other members of the black community, but ones who actually might meet the description. However, since I'm not black, I don't see where I have a place in that discussion at all. The people I know and listen to in the community do NOT EVER use those words. I don't have the feeling it is considered OK. There is too much painful history there. But I can't be the one to state that or debate it. That is a question that belongs to a community I am not a member of.
When my son was about four, we were both on the train and there were these black people and they kept saying the N word and my son blurted "Mom, what's a N***" and they overheard and they said to him "A word you must never say" and they must have saw the horrified look on my face when he said it. I then told my son it's a word that only black people can use and we can't say it because we don't have the right skin color. This was how I could explain a bad word to a 4 year old to explain why they can use it and we can't and to explain why it looked like a double standard to him.
He of course has forgotten about this because he asked few years later why the N word is bad and by then I was able to explain it in more detail. He must have heard it in school when he was learning about black history and the teacher explained you must ever say that word.
Surprisingly there are lot of white people out there that don't understand the severity of the word so they use it as a quotation or descriptive because they are not aware of the history of the word and they only know you can't call a black person that to put them down. Same as how you can't use the word ret*d or ret*d so they see it as bad as that but everyone is fine with it being used as a quotation. Many people treat this word as the R word.
Explaining some of these things to a child is definitely a challenge. It feels like we end up forced to help steal their innocence.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
RetroGamer87
Veteran
Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,970
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Brictoria wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.
Any criticism of Obama was a racial slur so why the double standard?
To some, it's not the principle, it's the "side" that matters...
Indeed.
*cough* Hyperpartisanship *cough*
DW_a_mom wrote:
That isn’t true.
Dox47 and I have both already explained that criticism is fine; it is the use of racist words while doing so that is not fine. We had opposite political opinions agreeing on this question; why are you stirring it up?
Dox47 and I have both already explained that criticism is fine; it is the use of racist words while doing so that is not fine. We had opposite political opinions agreeing on this question; why are you stirring it up?
Ehh, I think he was being facetious there, it really was bad during the Obama administration, you couldn't make any critique of him at all without some liberal jackhole popping up to call you racist, some of them might even be posting in this thread.
_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson
League_Girl wrote:
When my son was about four, we were both on the train and there were these black people and they kept saying the N word and my son blurted "Mom, what's a N***" and they overheard and they said to him "A word you must never say" and they must have saw the horrified look on my face when he said it. I then told my son it's a word that only black people can use and we can't say it because we don't have the right skin color. This was how I could explain a bad word to a 4 year old to explain why they can use it and we can't and to explain why it looked like a double standard to him.
He of course has forgotten about this because he asked few years later why the N word is bad and by then I was able to explain it in more detail. He must have heard it in school when he was learning about black history and the teacher explained you must ever say that word.
Surprisingly there are lot of white people out there that don't understand the severity of the word so they use it as a quotation or descriptive because they are not aware of the history of the word and they only know you can't call a black person that to put them down. Same as how you can't use the word ret*d or ret*d so they see it as bad as that but everyone is fine with it being used as a quotation. Many people treat this word as the R word.
There is also the cultural misunderstanding aspect.
From what I can see, the example you gave is an indication of tribalism and divisiveness.
I am not making a comment.
I need to look into it more before I form an opinion.
It is simply an observation.
Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
That isn’t true.
Dox47 and I have both already explained that criticism is fine; it is the use of racist words while doing so that is not fine. We had opposite political opinions agreeing on this question; why are you stirring it up?
Dox47 and I have both already explained that criticism is fine; it is the use of racist words while doing so that is not fine. We had opposite political opinions agreeing on this question; why are you stirring it up?
Ehh, I think he was being facetious there, it really was bad during the Obama administration, you couldn't make any critique of him at all without some liberal jackhole popping up to call you racist, some of them might even be posting in this thread.
I did know people like that. With so much actual racism evident towards Obama it was too easy for people to fall back on the charge when they couldn't understand a criticism. But there are also were seemingly innocent statements and observations that I honestly believe would have been viewed different if Obama had not been a minority. Sorting through it all was quite touchy. I do believe people could have shown each other a lot more grace trying to do that difficult sorting. There is so much I didn't understand then that I do now ... I think that is true for most of us. Summer 2020 was quite the reckoning, at least compared to past ones.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
DW_a_mom wrote:
I did know people like that. With so much actual racism evident towards Obama it was too easy for people to fall back on the charge when they couldn't understand a criticism.
Oh, I bet you did actually know people like that, you just didn't notice it because it wasn't aimed in your direction. I call this effect liberal privilege for obvious reasons, it's the same thing that prevents you from realizing that most major media is propaganda, that every institution not explicitly right wing hews to progressive orthodoxy, that you're free to express all of your opinions in public without sanction but I am not, etc. Conservatives do the same thing of course, but they don't have the institutional control that liberals enjoy these days, so their bubbles are correspondingly smaller, and their learned mistrust is more likely to lead them into conspiracy theories and other blind allies.
_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson
Mr Reynholm wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.
Any criticism of Obama was a racial slur so why the double standard?
Let's not kid ourselves, 99% of the criticism aimed at Obama from republican supporters was to do with his background, I don't recall any erudite placards carried by tea Party nutters proclaiming any worth while rebuttal to policy.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.
Any criticism of Obama was a racial slur so why the double standard?
Let's not kid ourselves, 99% of the criticism aimed at Obama from republican supporters was to do with his background, I don't recall any erudite placards carried by tea Party nutters proclaiming any worth while rebuttal to policy.
Amen, brother Cyberdad, Amen!
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.
Any criticism of Obama was a racial slur so why the double standard?
Let's not kid ourselves, 99% of the criticism aimed at Obama from republican supporters was to do with his background, I don't recall any erudite placards carried by tea Party nutters proclaiming any worth while rebuttal to policy.
Amen, brother Cyberdad, Amen!
@ DW_a_mom
_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.
Any criticism of Obama was a racial slur so why the double standard?
Let's not kid ourselves, 99% of the criticism aimed at Obama from republican supporters was to do with his background, I don't recall any erudite placards carried by tea Party nutters proclaiming any worth while rebuttal to policy.
Amen, brother Cyberdad, Amen!
@ DW_a_mom
That went over my autistic head.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
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