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Glad I Don't Live In America.

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The_Walrus
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02 Oct 2021, 5:16 pm

English accents are very complicated - I definitely don't understand people with very thick Yorkshire, Geordie, Brummie, Scouse, East Anglian or West Country accents, and I have trouble with the London equivalent of AAVE (which these days is more common than Cockney).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTVwdv9Pzo8 <- good video on East Anglian accents.

And that's before you get onto Scots, which is so different that it is hotly contested whether it is a dialect of English or a language in its own right. I tend to hear Scots much more than I hear East Anglian or West Country, despite the geographic distances, so I have less trouble with it than with the strongest regional accents of England, bit thare is a lot o' vocabulary that juist flies ower mah heid. (Scots is a separate issue to Welsh, Scots Gaelic, and Irish Gaelic, which are entirely separate minority languages and sound nothing like English)



kraftiekortie
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02 Oct 2021, 5:19 pm

Google Fieldston, Bronx.

THAT’S a nice part of NYC.

I live not far from Cunningham Park. Most of Northern Queens is suburban-like.



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02 Oct 2021, 6:25 pm

To me as a visitor, most parts of NYC are nice. Some long time residents aren't thrilled with the gentrification though. If you've heard of Alexandria Ocasio Córtez, she represents some of the not so nice parts of NYC. But they aren't necessarily "bad" neighborhoods.


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02 Oct 2021, 6:30 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
English accents are very complicated - I definitely don't understand people with very thick Yorkshire, Geordie, Brummie, Scouse, East Anglian or West Country accents, and I have trouble with the London equivalent of AAVE (which these days is more common than Cockney).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTVwdv9Pzo8 <- good video on East Anglian accents.

And that's before you get onto Scots, which is so different that it is hotly contested whether it is a dialect of English or a language in its own right. I tend to hear Scots much more than I hear East Anglian or West Country, despite the geographic distances, so I have less trouble with it than with the strongest regional accents of England, bit thare is a lot o' vocabulary that juist flies ower mah heid. (Scots is a separate issue to Welsh, Scots Gaelic, and Irish Gaelic, which are entirely separate minority languages and sound nothing like English)


Possibly the result of a fusion of native and invaders languages?



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02 Oct 2021, 6:34 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Google Fieldston, Bronx.

THAT’S a nice part of NYC.

I live not far from Cunningham Park. Most of Northern Queens is suburban-like.

City Island is an interesting part of the Bronx. I've never been there but I once saw a movie about it.

My mother used to live in Astoria in the 1930s. I think it was more Italian than Greek. She wasn't Italian but her boyfriend was.


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02 Oct 2021, 6:41 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like we should “lift a finger” for black folks.

My hope is that “affirmative action” becomes unnecessary. It’s a paradox, in that it both helps and hurts its recipients.


I generally agree with the principle of "Affirmative Action".
Some community groups are disadvantage through no fault of their own.
Consider autistics brown and white skunks, as an example. :mrgreen:



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02 Oct 2021, 6:44 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh well if schools are not teaching it, then what are parents complaining about then?


Hucksters have told them CRT is being taught, that's all it takes.


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02 Oct 2021, 6:45 pm

babybird wrote:
I think it'd be pretty cool to live in America. I'd have to have plenty of money though and a nice pad. Preferably in New York City.

The trouble is is that no one would be able to understand my northern English accent so I'd have to repeat myself quite a lot and then I'd end up just coming back home and after that I would decide that I'm actually glad that I don't live in America.


Firstly, learn proppa American Inglish before you emigrate. :mrgreen:

It would be nice to live in a country that isn't under the dark shadow of a jingoistic China. 8O



Last edited by Pepe on 02 Oct 2021, 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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02 Oct 2021, 6:55 pm

Brictoria wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like we should “lift a finger” for black folks.

My hope is that “affirmative action” becomes unnecessary. It’s a paradox, in that it both helps and hurts its recipients.

This leads to an interesting point:
Should we "lift a finger" regardless of the "black folk"'s situation, so those in the higher classes receive the same assistance as those who are in the "lower class"\poor?
or
should we "lift a finger" only for those "black folks" who need it, and not those who are already at a certain level, ignoring the equal needs of those of other races in that same (or lesser) position?
or
Should we ignore the person's "race" and instead focus on the individual's needs, so those most needy (regardless of "race") receive the assistance?

Over here our governments set aside assistance for the Aboriginal people - "lifting a finger" for them. Sounds good until you realise that this assistance goes predominantly to those middle-class Aboriginal people in the cities who are already at an equivalent position to those of other races, whilst those who really need the support in the outback communities see much less of the "assistance".

Or take Canada, where "assistance" is set aside for the "first people", yet many of those people are still without clean drinking water because the assistance is directed to more "publicly visible" areas rather than those "out of the way" people with much greater need.


Firstly, affirmative action should be colour blind.

Secondly, people should be treated as individuals, rather than political footballs. 8)



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02 Oct 2021, 7:02 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There happen to be many nice parts of NYC.

I can understand the Northern English accent just fine :)


I remember the days when you averted your eyes when walking down the street, in NY.
And the crime rate was out of control.
Wasn't it Giuliani who fixed it?



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02 Oct 2021, 7:07 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh well if schools are not teaching it, then what are parents complaining about then?



That isn't correct from what I have seen through Australian news outlets.



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02 Oct 2021, 7:11 pm

Jakki wrote:
am a Yank and sometimes have trouble understanding some midwestern accents that are near oklahoma ... but have a terrible time with Cockney accents from that area of the UK . Especially if spoken quickly . I cant even pretend to understand them . 8O


But you have no trouble understanding "Cockadoodledoo", do you, my little chick-a-dee? :mrgreen:



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02 Oct 2021, 7:37 pm

@Max

City Island reminds me of Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn. Except maybe a little better.



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02 Oct 2021, 11:19 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
The thing is, schools do NOT teach CRT. It would be a law school or specialized university study thing if anything; and those students are adults, parents no longer involved.


That's a bit of a strawman, nobody is claiming that schools are teaching CRT the legal theory, what is being claimed, accurately, is that schools are teaching a form of racial essentialism that is largely derived from CRT or its progeny (e.g. Ibram X. Kendi), and doing things like segregating classrooms based on oppression matrices, teaching the white kids that they are born oppressors and the non-white kids they are born victims, etc. There is volumes of evidence of this going on out there, but you need to abandon this "well it's not literally CRT so it's not happening" position, which feels like an almost willful misunderstanding of the facts on the ground at this point. The term CRT is being used as a short hand because it's easier than explaining the whole host of objectionable practices every single time, not in its precise academic meaning.


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02 Oct 2021, 11:44 pm

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Dox47 wrote:
"well it's not literally CRT so it's not happening" position


That sound much like the "It wasn't REAL socialism" argument used when people refer to failed socialist regimes as examples of why Socialism doesn't work...



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03 Oct 2021, 12:27 am

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
The thing is, schools do NOT teach CRT. It would be a law school or specialized university study thing if anything; and those students are adults, parents no longer involved.


That's a bit of a strawman, nobody is claiming that schools are teaching CRT the legal theory, what is being claimed, accurately, is that schools are teaching a form of racial essentialism that is largely derived from CRT or its progeny (e.g. Ibram X. Kendi), and doing things like segregating classrooms based on oppression matrices, teaching the white kids that they are born oppressors and the non-white kids they are born victims, etc. There is volumes of evidence of this going on out there, but you need to abandon this "well it's not literally CRT so it's not happening" position, which feels like an almost willful misunderstanding of the facts on the ground at this point. The term CRT is being used as a short hand because it's easier than explaining the whole host of objectionable practices every single time, not in its precise academic meaning.


I appreciate the clarification because it has honestly confused me. If that is the case, they need to stop calling it CRT. The term has a specific meaning, and not adhering to that specific meaning is a misuse of the term. I worry "CRT" has become the straw man.

The extremely liberal schools my kids attended did not teach what you describe. If they didn't teach it, I have to wonder who does. I can only think of the super rich and privileged ones that try too hard to teach their students empathy, maybe? If that is the case, it kind of backfires, though, because the kids in super rich and privileged schools here tend not to see those who start with less privilege as their equals; they tend to see them as charity.


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