Response to "If you are a white person... "
14 Sep 2021, 11:33 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Quote:
If You Are a White Person...
Quote:
... You can arrange to protect your children most of the time from people who might not like them.
I do not have children. But my nieces and nephews are Middle Eastern, so I do have to worry about them a lot.
Moved the goalposts in a self-serving manner. You're basically pointing out your nieces and nephews might face racial discrimination in your attempt to minimize someone's attempt at pointing out an example of white privilege.[/quote]
Incorrect. I was pointing out that just because an individual is white, that does not warrant the assumption that their spouse or children must be white as well.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can arrange your activities so that you will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to your race.
I've been experiencing rejection owing to my autism my entire life.
Seems like a distraction from her point; you haven't actually refuted what she's claimed. She's only commented rejection due to race, not on due to neurotype. You might need to ask her about NT privilege to hear what she has to say about that.
No. I am in no way distracting from her point. I'm pointing out her failure to take into account any demographic factor other than race. Millions of people have experienced othering due to various factors which include disability, sexual orientation, religion, socio-economic status, chronic illness, etc. Race, while significant, is only one of those various factors. My ND status is only one example of that. Every individual has a unique story, and nobody is warranted in making any assumption about someone else simply from seeing the color of their skin. By focusing on race alone, she is painting a skewed and dishonest picture of the realities of othering and marginalization.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can avoid spending time with people whom you were trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust you or your kind.
Untrue. That was a very common experience I had growing up in Libya.
That's fair, you didn't enjoy majority privilege while in Libya.
Which demonstrates the folly of making assumptions about people and their lives.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with you and advise you about your next steps, professionally.
Untrue. People on the autism spectrum face regular employment discrimination.
Quote:
Research by Roux et al. ([32]), suggests that only 58% of young adults in their early 20s with ASD are employed. Supporting data from the CDC ([10]) indicates that in 2014, only 60% of the 18,000 individuals with ASD in state-funded vocational rehabilitation programs attained employment. For those adults on the spectrum not receiving aid, employment outcomes are purported to be even poorer (Gerhardt et al. [13]). This employment rate is also far below outcomes reported for other disability groups including those with learning and intellectual disabilities (Roux et al. [32]). In fact, it is even lower than the employment rate of ex-convicts who achieve a more inspiring 75% rate of employment (National Justice Institute [30]). Research by Scott et al. ([34]) suggests employers are apprehensive and unwilling to hire adults on the spectrum, associating ASD hires with an increase in operating costs and a decrease in productivity. That perception is likely the result of limited societal knowledge about ASD and a dearth of effective transition services. Nevertheless, as it stands now, the employment potential for adults on the spectrum is considerably limited.
Source: https://doi.org/10.1007/s10803-020-04537-w
Your criticism is misplaced, she isn't accounting for how neurotypes might matter and by not specifying on the basis of race she isn't clear enough although most people would likely assume on the basis of race is implied throughout.
No, it most certainly is not. McIntoch's failure to account for any minority status other than race is grave error and an inexcusable oversight.
funeralxempire wrote:
Although you might want to consider how being ND and a visible minority might impact things relative to being ND and white.
I am quite aware of the difference. At no point did I state or imply otherwise.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize yours.
Untrue. Because of my autism, I am often the person blamed when conflicts arise. And it is extremely difficult for me to receive any opportunities to advance at all.
Again, she's failing consider how being ND might impact situations. You're still overlooking how race and being ND would further complicate things.
And again, ND and disability status is just as relevant to the issue as race is. And by failing to acknowledge that, she is either being deliberately dishonest or is demonstrating her ineptitude and ignorance regarding social issues.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can be pretty sure that if you argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost you heavily within your present setting, even if your colleagues disagree with you.
Again, untrue. People with autism are often perceived unfavorably when we speak up in any situation.
You're still pointing to struggles related to being ND as though they negate struggles NT PoC commonly encounter due to being othered.
I never said that NT PoCs do not face discrimination or othering. This is a straw man.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... And if you have low credibility as a leader, you can be sure that your race will not be blamed.
True. However, my neurodiversity status can still be blamed. And my gender is constantly blamed for all manners of sh*t by woke feminists.
More of the previous and a random strawman about feminists for good measures.
The only straw man here is your own. I specified a particular brand of feminists (woke), not feminists in general. Your attempt at a subtle semantic slight of hand is appalling dishonest, and it has not gone unnoticed.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... And if you should need to move, you can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which you can afford and in which you would want to live.
Bullsh*t! I and many other white people do not possess the financial means to do this. This is a clear example of how the idiots who copy and paste this never bother to fact check first.
Problems with access to affordable housing aren't limited to PoC but that doesn't negate that this issue has a disproportionate impact on PoC.
True. But the article is making the claim that all white people can afford to live in nice neighborhoods. It is that particular claim that I am responding to.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... And if your day, week, or year is going badly, you need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
No. But I do need to question if I was being treated with hostility because of my autism.
Again, more of pointing to issues related to having autism as though they negate other forms of struggles.
No. I never said that it negates other forms of struggles. My point all along is that it is this articles which negates all forms of struggle other than those caused by race. You are projecting.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... Whether you use checks, credit cards, or cash, you can count on your skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
But my credit score is severely impacted by financial struggles I've been through, caused in a large part by my autism and the employment discrimination I've frequently experienced.
More of the same, you're not even addressing the claim you're just bringing up the fact that you face analogous struggles with a different cause.
No. My point is that people can face struggles caused by demographic factors other than race.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can be pretty sure that your children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; your chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
Not if they are autistic or have a disability, and not if they are of a lower socio-economic status than their peers.
I think we've covered this, being discriminated for another reason still doesn't negate that people commonly face discrimination for the reason described.
The only thing you've covered is the same straw man you keep repeating. I did not at any point say that people do not face discrimination or struggle because of their race. It is this article that is making the claim that no white person faces these discriminations for any reason.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can be sure that your children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
But not their neurodiversity status.
More of the same.
The same straw man again.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can expect figurative language and imagery in all the arts to testify to experiences of your race.
Yes. But my neurodiversity status is rarely represented.
Again.
Same straw man.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can go home from most meetings of organizations you belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
Absolutely f**king not! As a person on the autism spectrum, that describes nearly every experience I've ever had.
Again.
Again with the same straw man.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of your race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with your cultural traditions, or into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut your hair.
Where do I even start?! It should be absolutely clearly apparent to anyone who knows anything at all about modern Western culture why is a blatant lie. Everyone know that African American music genres like Jazz, Rock, Hip Hop, and Rap have dominated American music for generations; and Rock and Rap are currently the most popular music genres not only in America but in the entire world. Michael Jackson is undisputably the single most popular musical artist in all of recorded human history. When I say that I can tell beyond shadow of a doubt that woke morons copy and paste this sh*t without fact checking it, this particular point is how I know that with certainty.
This one probably is more fair and at the very least is much messier to break down. I'll give you this point because I don't feel like wasting effort on trying to add nuance here.
Translation: You've got nothing.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in your culture any penalty for such oblivion.
English is also the first language of all African Americans. And the majority of white Europeans and French Canadians do not speak English as their first language. This is another example that demonstrates that whoever posted this did not fact check it.
African Americans aren't the entirety of people of colour though. Notice she said world, not America. This is another example of moving goalposts.
Yes. I did notice she said world. Which is why I pointed out that the majority of white people in the world are not English speakers either. I noticed that you didn't respond to that. The claim made is that all white people enjoy English speaker privilege, which is factually inaccurate. No goalposts were moved. Now you're just blatantly lying.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can swear, or dress in secondhand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of your race.
True. But my neurodiversity group is commonly stereotyped as rude, arrogant, and unfeeling.
And back to the usual.
And the same straw man again.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can take a job with an Affirmative Action employer without having your co-workers on the job suspect that you got it because of your race.
No. They suspect it was because of my autism.
Again.
All you've done is repeat the same straw man over and over.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can talk with your mouth full and not have people put this down to your color.
They put it down to autism instead.
Again.
Same straw man.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can think over many options, social, political, imaginative, or professional, without asking whether a person of your race would be accepted or allowed to do what you want to do.
But I have constant anxiety over the fact that I will likely not be accepted or allowed because of my autism.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can travel alone or with your spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with you.
You're assuming that because I'm white, my spouse must be white as well. Also, white same-sex couples experience this all the time.
This is a variation on the usual only this time you're pointing out homophobia/straight privilege or, more ironically, that your partner might face discrimination due to their race even if you're white. Nice try.
You're only demonstrating how badly you're missing the entire point. I am responding to what is written, and the author clearly failed to consider that a white person married to a PoC will have to deal with this kind of BS as well. And yes, white people can be LGBTQ and can face discrimination for it. Shocking, I know!
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You can, if you wish, arrange to be in the company of people of your race most of the time.
I find this one odd. Why would anyone care about any such thing? This entry tells me more about its author than anything else.
What does it tell you, that's she's noticed something? You're not refuting it, just implying it says something bad about the author.
Normal people don't spend their time worrying about avoiding members of other races. That McIntoch is thinking about this tells me that she must not be comfortable around non-white people, and she is projecting her own discomfort onto her audience.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You do not have to educate your children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
No. But, assuming the high likelihood that they inherent my autism, I will have to educate them about how to cope with the never-ending barrage of rejection, abuse, and bullying they will encounter.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... You will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.
Absolutely not true! I have been othered my entire entire life because of my autism.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... Your children are given texts and classes which implicitly support your kind of family unit and do not turn them against your choice of domestic partnership.
Is this a list of white privileges or straight privileges? Did this one get put on the wrong list somehow? Is anyone even paying attention? This one tells me that the idiot who posted it didn't even read it first.
Clearly the author is focused more on traditional family structures found outside of the west when those people move to the west, although you are correct to point out that this is also relevant to queer people as well. It still doesn't rebut the point though.
Okay, that makes sense.
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
Quote:
... Your culture gives you little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
True. But the perspectives of neurodiverse people like myself are always ignored.
And we end with some more of the usual distraction.
And we end with the same straw man.
The crux of your straw man argument is that I am denying that people of color face discrimination or adversity due to their race, despite the fact that I never did make any such claim at any point. I challenge you to point to any post in which I said any such thing.
It is this article which is making the claim that all white people never face discrimination or adversity for any reason. It opens with the phrase "If you are white". The use of the pronoun 'you' establishes that all the claims that follow pertain to all white people, as the author never establishes any exceptions. So when she says, for instance, that you can afford a home in a place you would want to live in; the pronoun 'you' refers to all white people, including those who are ND, disabled, impoverished, queer, transgender, belong to a religious minority, etc. It is this sweeping generalization which I am objecting to.
So nice try, but you have utterly failed to dispute any of the points that I actually made.
15 Sep 2021, 2:13 am
The concept of white privilege isn't that your life can't be hard if you're white, it just means your white skin isn't a factor in making it hard.
The fact that the OP keeps citing his autism, as opposed to his skin color, as the reason why his life sucks is evidence of this.
Some people on WP really need to grasp the concept of "nuance."
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."
-XFG (no longer a moderator)
15 Sep 2021, 2:30 am
White privilege seems meaningless, because we cannot know what is better.
Being harassed by police because of your skin color might set you on the right path, while the troubled white kid got left alone by police so he/she is worse off.
Being poor might set you on the path to wanting to be wealthy.
Adversity might make you tougher in life.
So much wisdom contradicts white privilege, and suggests one is better off with *hardship* than *comfort*.
_________________
Then a hero comes along, with the strength to carry on, and you cast your fears aside, and you know you can survive.
Be the hero of your life.
Last edited by TheRobotLives on 15 Sep 2021, 2:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
15 Sep 2021, 2:53 am
TheRobotLives wrote:
White privilege seems meaningless, because we cannot know what is better.
Being harassed by police because of your skin color might set you on the right path, while the troubled white kid got left alone by police so he/she is worse off.
Being poor might set you on the path to wanting to be wealthy.
Adversity might make you tougher in life.
So much wisdom contradicts white privilege, and suggests one is better off with *hardship* than *comfort*.
Being harassed by police because of your skin color might set you on the right path, while the troubled white kid got left alone by police so he/she is worse off.
Being poor might set you on the path to wanting to be wealthy.
Adversity might make you tougher in life.
So much wisdom contradicts white privilege, and suggests one is better off with *hardship* than *comfort*.
Is that serious?
Because written as it is, it's hard to believe it's not sarcasm/satire.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
15 Sep 2021, 3:17 am
^ Oh, it's real. I'm getting to the point I'm almost done with this site seeing as so many posters are so far removed from reality.
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."
-XFG (no longer a moderator)
15 Sep 2021, 3:42 am
Then it would be a textbook example of rationalization.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
15 Sep 2021, 3:47 am
magz wrote:
Is that serious?
Because written as it is, it's hard to believe it's not sarcasm/satire.
Because written as it is, it's hard to believe it's not sarcasm/satire.
It's written that way cause I am familiar with it, so I can list several contrary ideas.
I don't believe that possessions, wealth, comfort, preferential treatment, pleasure are necessarily *privileges*.
I feel like teaching people this is harmful as it creates resentment and draws people into negative thinking that they're victims.
We saw recently when a Latina delivery driver attacked a 67 year old white woman, telling her that she has *white privilege*.
Amazon driver attacks woman after telling she has "white privilege"
https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/06/amazon-d ... -14727159/
There are so many positive, inspirational wisdoms that teach people overcome adversity, and achieve even greater success.
_________________
Then a hero comes along, with the strength to carry on, and you cast your fears aside, and you know you can survive.
Be the hero of your life.
15 Sep 2021, 3:51 am
I'd leave this "maybe this harm is actually good, who knows?" to God alone, case-by-case.
Otherwise, it's too easy to be used as a reason to justify harming others or letting harm continue.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
15 Sep 2021, 4:23 am
magz wrote:
Then it would be a textbook example of rationalization.
I've said for a long time that autistic people aren't actually more logical than NTs, they're just better at rationalizing their own emotions.
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."
-XFG (no longer a moderator)
15 Sep 2021, 6:15 am
But what does this "better" mean?
Being a member of a traumatized society, I see a lot of harm being just harm, crippling for generations.
Some individuals overcome it and many burn out trying.
The loss-gain balance is definitely on the loss side.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
15 Sep 2021, 6:55 am
When white Aspies interact with white NTs, something about us seems off. We're often labeled weird or sarcastic or jerks.
When white Aspies interact with non-white NTs, something about us seems off. We're often labeled racist. It's essentially prejudice (our skin color) + NT privilege (our autistic weirdness). Our offness is picked up on by non-white NTs. The assumption is, because we're white, it must be that we're acting weird because we're racist. For the "colorblind" white Aspies who refute this, you must live in a non-diverse, almost exclusively white-centric world.
A L S O : At least the black guy hassled by police has fellow blacks who can empathize with him for the discrimination. Blacks can't imagine any white person is hassled by police. Whites assume that if a white person is hassled by police, he must be guilty of something.
15 Sep 2021, 7:05 am
ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
For the "colorblind" white Aspies who refute this, you must live in a non-diverse, almost exclusively white-centric world.
While I myself live in Eastern Europe where ethnicity structure is completely different and "white" isn't a thing at all because the most openly discriminated minorities are also "white", I would doubt your words fit well e.g. the WP members with spouses "of color"...
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
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