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Fnord
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13 Sep 2021, 2:24 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
Hemp is an incredible plant that has many uses and is much better environmentally than many of the crops we grow now.  Successive government messaging and media however have done such a good job in frightening people about the danger of cannabis that people see 'hemp' and read 'drug' ...
The "War On Hemp" started with William Randolph Hearst, the newspaper mogul who invested heavily into the timber, pulpwood, and paper-making industries.  He was so afraid that paper made from hemp would "unfairly" compete with his own paper made from wood pulp that he used his wealth, influence, and "Reefer Madness" propaganda to coerce Congress into making ALL hemp plants and products illegal.  America has still to fully recover from his efforts.
I thought it had to do with disenfranchising blacks.
I dug deeper into this after your post.  It seems that the conspiracy theory I posted above (which was related to me by a local pot-head and CBD oil dealer), is completely bogus!

:oops: How embarrassing!

Instead, it seems that your suspicions are valid -- the anti-hemp laws (enacted over several years) were put on the books to provide justification for arresting and deporting Mexican migrant workers, and arresting and imprisoning blacks ... who eventually ended providing cheap prison labor for governments and businesses alike through "Work Crews" and "Chain Gangs".

The belief that marijuana prohibition came about because of the secret machinations of an economic cabal ignores the pattern of every drug-law crusade in American history.  From the 19th-century campaigns against opium and alcohol to the crack panic of the 1980s, they have all been fueled by racism and cultural war, conflated with fear of crime and occasionally abetted by well-intentioned reform impulses.

While Hearst's newspaper editorials railed against hemp, marijuana, and their use, the end result was the criminalization of the people who used them -- mostly people of African and Latin-American descent.

Source:
 This National Center for Biotechnology Information Article 



naturalplastic
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13 Sep 2021, 2:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Du Pont was a major player in the criminalization of hemp, also.  Prohibition has been such an effective tool at creating a better society, hasn't it?
The criminalization of hemp was a purely economic move by people who profited from the timber industry.  Prohibition was driven by religious groups who considered alcohol (and subsequent drunkenness) a moral threat to the nation, with little or no economic consideration involved.  The outcome of both was to make criminals out of those who just wanted to relieve their anxiety and pain.
I think the prohibition of alcohol is somewhat based on economics. The government wasn't likely to ever pass it, because they would have lost too much revenue collected from alcohol sales. Once they passed the income tax bill, it cleared the way.
Good point; but I think economics played a more important role in the repeal of Prohibition due to lost tax revenue from alcohol sales.


The repeal had a well known economic motive, but it was not tax revenue.

Prohibition was enacted in affluent 1920, but continued into the Great Depression of the Thirties when FDR and Congress were desperate to find ways to fight unemployment. Restoring the legal liquor industry was publicly argued as a way to help restore jobs and prosperity (among other non economic arguments- like the fact Prohibition didnt seem to work anyway). So it was more about jobs than about tax revenue.



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13 Sep 2021, 2:54 pm

Fnord wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
Hemp is an incredible plant that has many uses and is much better environmentally than many of the crops we grow now.  Successive government messaging and media however have done such a good job in frightening people about the danger of cannabis that people see 'hemp' and read 'drug' ...
The "War On Hemp" started with William Randolph Hearst, the newspaper mogul who invested heavily into the timber, pulpwood, and paper-making industries.  He was so afraid that paper made from hemp would "unfairly" compete with his own paper made from wood pulp that he used his wealth, influence, and "Reefer Madness" propaganda to coerce Congress into making ALL hemp plants and products illegal.  America has still to fully recover from his efforts.
I thought it had to do with disenfranchising blacks.
I dug deeper into this after your post.  It seems that the conspiracy theory I posted above (which was related to me by a local pot-head and CBD oil dealer), is completely bogus!

:oops: How embarrassing!

Instead, it seems that your suspicions are valid -- the anti-hemp laws (enacted over several years) were put on the books to provide justification for arresting and deporting Mexican migrant workers, and arresting and imprisoning blacks ... who eventually ended providing cheap prison labor for governments and businesses alike through "Work Crews" and "Chain Gangs".

The belief that marijuana prohibition came about because of the secret machinations of an economic cabal ignores the pattern of every drug-law crusade in American history.  From the 19th-century campaigns against opium and alcohol to the crack panic of the 1980s, they have all been fueled by racism and cultural war, conflated with fear of crime and occasionally abetted by well-intentioned reform impulses.

While Hearst's newspaper editorials railed against hemp, marijuana, and their use, the end result was the criminalization of the people who used them -- mostly people of African and Latin-American descent.

Source:
 This National Center for Biotechnology Information Article 


It's not bogus at all. Hearst, Du Pont, and the other lobbyists involved were invested in protecting their interests. They utilized racist rhetoric to achieve that goal, yes. But they're primary motivation was money.

The side-benefit was keeping disenfranchised groups down, which always empowers the ruling elite.


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Fnord
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13 Sep 2021, 2:59 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
Hemp is an incredible plant that has many uses and is much better environmentally than many of the crops we grow now.  Successive government messaging and media however have done such a good job in frightening people about the danger of cannabis that people see 'hemp' and read 'drug' ...
The "War On Hemp" started with William Randolph Hearst, the newspaper mogul who invested heavily into the timber, pulpwood, and paper-making industries.  He was so afraid that paper made from hemp would "unfairly" compete with his own paper made from wood pulp that he used his wealth, influence, and "Reefer Madness" propaganda to coerce Congress into making ALL hemp plants and products illegal.  America has still to fully recover from his efforts.
I thought it had to do with disenfranchising blacks.
I dug deeper into this after your post.  It seems that the conspiracy theory I posted above (which was related to me by a local pot-head and CBD oil dealer), is completely bogus!

:oops: How embarrassing!

Instead, it seems that your suspicions are valid -- the anti-hemp laws (enacted over several years) were put on the books to provide justification for arresting and deporting Mexican migrant workers, and arresting and imprisoning blacks ... who eventually ended providing cheap prison labor for governments and businesses alike through "Work Crews" and "Chain Gangs".

The belief that marijuana prohibition came about because of the secret machinations of an economic cabal ignores the pattern of every drug-law crusade in American history.  From the 19th-century campaigns against opium and alcohol to the crack panic of the 1980s, they have all been fueled by racism and cultural war, conflated with fear of crime and occasionally abetted by well-intentioned reform impulses.

While Hearst's newspaper editorials railed against hemp, marijuana, and their use, the end result was the criminalization of the people who used them -- mostly people of African and Latin-American descent.

Source:
 This National Center for Biotechnology Information Article 
It's not bogus at all. Hearst, Du Pont, and the other lobbyists involved were invested in protecting their interests. They utilized racist rhetoric to achieve that goal, yes. But they're primary motivation was money.

The side-benefit was keeping disenfranchised groups down, which always empowers the ruling elite.
Maybe it was a mixture of the two -- wealthy fat-cats looking out for their own interests, and the white racist establishment trying to maintain the antebellum status-quo.

In any case, all the facts should be presented.



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13 Sep 2021, 3:02 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
Hemp is an incredible plant that has many uses and is much better environmentally than many of the crops we grow now.  Successive government messaging and media however have done such a good job in frightening people about the danger of cannabis that people see 'hemp' and read 'drug' ...
The "War On Hemp" started with William Randolph Hearst, the newspaper mogul who invested heavily into the timber, pulpwood, and paper-making industries.  He was so afraid that paper made from hemp would "unfairly" compete with his own paper made from wood pulp that he used his wealth, influence, and "Reefer Madness" propaganda to coerce Congress into making ALL hemp plants and products illegal.  America has still to fully recover from his efforts.
I thought it had to do with disenfranchising blacks.
I dug deeper into this after your post.  It seems that the conspiracy theory I posted above (which was related to me by a local pot-head and CBD oil dealer), is completely bogus!

:oops: How embarrassing!

Instead, it seems that your suspicions are valid -- the anti-hemp laws (enacted over several years) were put on the books to provide justification for arresting and deporting Mexican migrant workers, and arresting and imprisoning blacks ... who eventually ended providing cheap prison labor for governments and businesses alike through "Work Crews" and "Chain Gangs".

The belief that marijuana prohibition came about because of the secret machinations of an economic cabal ignores the pattern of every drug-law crusade in American history.  From the 19th-century campaigns against opium and alcohol to the crack panic of the 1980s, they have all been fueled by racism and cultural war, conflated with fear of crime and occasionally abetted by well-intentioned reform impulses.

While Hearst's newspaper editorials railed against hemp, marijuana, and their use, the end result was the criminalization of the people who used them -- mostly people of African and Latin-American descent.

Source:
 This National Center for Biotechnology Information Article 


It's not bogus at all. Hearst, Du Pont, and the other lobbyists involved were invested in protecting their interests. They utilized racist rhetoric to achieve that goal, yes. But they're primary motivation was money.

The side-benefit was keeping disenfranchised groups down, which always empowers the ruling elite.


Basically this. Different groups who worked together to achieve it had different interests; economic incentives for some, political for others. These issues rarely have one single motive because they often require a political coalition to accomplish.


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VegetableMan
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13 Sep 2021, 3:18 pm

Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
Hemp is an incredible plant that has many uses and is much better environmentally than many of the crops we grow now.  Successive government messaging and media however have done such a good job in frightening people about the danger of cannabis that people see 'hemp' and read 'drug' ...
The "War On Hemp" started with William Randolph Hearst, the newspaper mogul who invested heavily into the timber, pulpwood, and paper-making industries.  He was so afraid that paper made from hemp would "unfairly" compete with his own paper made from wood pulp that he used his wealth, influence, and "Reefer Madness" propaganda to coerce Congress into making ALL hemp plants and products illegal.  America has still to fully recover from his efforts.
I thought it had to do with disenfranchising blacks.
I dug deeper into this after your post.  It seems that the conspiracy theory I posted above (which was related to me by a local pot-head and CBD oil dealer), is completely bogus!

:oops: How embarrassing!

Instead, it seems that your suspicions are valid -- the anti-hemp laws (enacted over several years) were put on the books to provide justification for arresting and deporting Mexican migrant workers, and arresting and imprisoning blacks ... who eventually ended providing cheap prison labor for governments and businesses alike through "Work Crews" and "Chain Gangs".

The belief that marijuana prohibition came about because of the secret machinations of an economic cabal ignores the pattern of every drug-law crusade in American history.  From the 19th-century campaigns against opium and alcohol to the crack panic of the 1980s, they have all been fueled by racism and cultural war, conflated with fear of crime and occasionally abetted by well-intentioned reform impulses.

While Hearst's newspaper editorials railed against hemp, marijuana, and their use, the end result was the criminalization of the people who used them -- mostly people of African and Latin-American descent.

Source:
 This National Center for Biotechnology Information Article 
It's not bogus at all. Hearst, Du Pont, and the other lobbyists involved were invested in protecting their interests. They utilized racist rhetoric to achieve that goal, yes. But they're primary motivation was money.

The side-benefit was keeping disenfranchised groups down, which always empowers the ruling elite.
Maybe it was a mixture of the two -- wealthy fat-cats looking out for their own interests, and the white racist establishment trying to maintain the antebellum status-quo.

In any case, all the facts should be presented.


Exactly. Interests converge.


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Fnord
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13 Sep 2021, 3:22 pm

Interests converge ... Caiaphas wanted power and privilege ... Pilate wanted peace and to maintain his friendship with Caesar ... Herod wanted to party on ... and Judas wanted silver.

It is a thread that runs throughout history.



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13 Sep 2021, 3:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
Interests converge ... Caiaphas wanted power and privilege ... Pilate wanted peace and to maintain his friendship with Caesar ... Herod wanted to party on ... and Judas wanted silver.

It is a thread that runs throughout history.


Money, privilege, and power. Yep.


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14 Sep 2021, 8:54 pm

Fnord wrote:
I dug deeper into this after your post.  It seems that the conspiracy theory I posted above (which was related to me by a local pot-head and CBD oil dealer), is completely bogus!

:oops: How embarrassing!

Instead, it seems that your suspicions are valid -- the anti-hemp laws (enacted over several years) were put on the books to provide justification for arresting and deporting Mexican migrant workers, and arresting and imprisoning blacks ... who eventually ended providing cheap prison labor for governments and businesses alike through "Work Crews" and "Chain Gangs".

The belief that marijuana prohibition came about because of the secret machinations of an economic cabal ignores the pattern of every drug-law crusade in American history.  From the 19th-century campaigns against opium and alcohol to the crack panic of the 1980s, they have all been fueled by racism and cultural war, conflated with fear of crime and occasionally abetted by well-intentioned reform impulses.

While Hearst's newspaper editorials railed against hemp, marijuana, and their use, the end result was the criminalization of the people who used them -- mostly people of African and Latin-American descent.

Source:
 This National Center for Biotechnology Information Article 


I'm quoting this to make a slightly off topic point, and to congratulate Fnord on properly owning a mistake. See, this is how it's supposed to work when someone makes you question a belief, you re-investigate, and if it turns out you were wrong, admit it, acknowledge the error, and move on, rather than dodging the question, answering a different question that was not asked (i.e. knocking down a straw man), or engaging in whataboutism. Notice that Fnord has not suffered any loss of credibility by admitting the mistake, in fact his credibility is enhanced, as now there is tangible evidence on the record that when confronted with conflicting information, he will actually engage with it and change his opinion if appropriate. Congratulations Fnord, I wish this kind of post was not such a rare occurrence, and not just on WP either.


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14 Sep 2021, 10:07 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I dug deeper into this after your post.  It seems that the conspiracy theory I posted above (which was related to me by a local pot-head and CBD oil dealer), is completely bogus!

:oops: How embarrassing!

Instead, it seems that your suspicions are valid -- the anti-hemp laws (enacted over several years) were put on the books to provide justification for arresting and deporting Mexican migrant workers, and arresting and imprisoning blacks ... who eventually ended providing cheap prison labor for governments and businesses alike through "Work Crews" and "Chain Gangs".

The belief that marijuana prohibition came about because of the secret machinations of an economic cabal ignores the pattern of every drug-law crusade in American history.  From the 19th-century campaigns against opium and alcohol to the crack panic of the 1980s, they have all been fueled by racism and cultural war, conflated with fear of crime and occasionally abetted by well-intentioned reform impulses.

While Hearst's newspaper editorials railed against hemp, marijuana, and their use, the end result was the criminalization of the people who used them -- mostly people of African and Latin-American descent.

Source:
 This National Center for Biotechnology Information Article 


I'm quoting this to make a slightly off topic point, and to congratulate Fnord on properly owning a mistake. See, this is how it's supposed to work when someone makes you question a belief, you re-investigate, and if it turns out you were wrong, admit it, acknowledge the error, and move on, rather than dodging the question, answering a different question that was not asked (i.e. knocking down a straw man), or engaging in whataboutism. Notice that Fnord has not suffered any loss of credibility by admitting the mistake, in fact his credibility is enhanced, as now there is tangible evidence on the record that when confronted with conflicting information, he will actually engage with it and change his opinion if appropriate. Congratulations Fnord, I wish this kind of post was not such a rare occurrence, and not just on WP either.


That is the way it is supposed to work.
Some people don't get it. 8)


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"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
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14 Sep 2021, 10:22 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Like freaking hell I saw somthing on reddit of Lego changing their brick material from plastic, it is possible they will use hemp plastic. But someone litterally commented that they figured if lego did that it would be to indoctrinate children to smoke pot. Like I cracked up laughing like this person literally thinks lego is just getting in with weed companies so they can encourage children to smoke pot...like what? You think lego is going through all the effort to find ways to make their product without oil based plastic all just to encourage kids to smoke pot?...Like where do people like this get such crazy ideas? I think Legos goal is just to be more environmentally friendly. just some people will find a way to complain about anything.


Well, the've been using sugercane since 2018 (maybe that's why people bite the pieces so much - It's very annoying finding parts like that when buying 2nd hand):
Quote:
FIRST SUSTAINABLE LEGO® BRICKS WILL BE LAUNCHED IN 2018

Production has started on a range of sustainable LEGO® elements made from plant-based plastic sourced from sugarcane. The new sustainable LEGO ‘botanical’ elements will come in varieties including leaves, bushes and trees.

“At the LEGO Group we want to make a positive impact on the world around us, and are working hard to make great play products for children using sustainable materials. We are proud that the first LEGO elements made from sustainably sourced plastic are in production and will be in LEGO boxes this year. This is a great first step in our ambitious commitment of making all LEGO bricks using sustainable materials,” said Tim Brooks, Vice President, Environmental Responsibility at the LEGO Group.

The move is part of the LEGO Group’s commitment to use sustainable materials in core products and packaging by 2030.

Source: https://www.lego.com/en-au/aboutus/news/2019/october/lego-plants-made-from-plants/
and more at:
https://www.lego.com/en-au/campaigns/plantsfromplants

Hopefully they don't return to the old "Cellulose Acetate" plastic from the 1950's - I have too many parts from that era which have warped, making their use difficult.

Here's their first set in the range:
Image


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14 Sep 2021, 10:26 pm

Pepe wrote:
Tell me about it. :mrgreen:


I was genuinely trying to be nice too, I'm on the record repudiating many things I got wrong, including my entire economic belief system up to about 2019 or so.


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15 Sep 2021, 12:24 am

Dox47 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Tell me about it. :mrgreen:


I was genuinely trying to be nice too, I'm on the record repudiating many things I got wrong, including my entire economic belief system up to about 2019 or so.


I have absolutely no problem admitting when I am wrong.
"The Oracle of Truth" has no option, after all. 8)

It is simply a matter of priorities.
I have virtually no ego, being part nihilist, and focus on the Truth.
I see no shame in adjusting my POV when new facts come my way.
It is fascinating, amusing and foolish (Vaadwaur)to see how some people cling to the illusion of their infallibility. 8O

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27 ... k:_Voyager)


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


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15 Sep 2021, 7:49 am

This was the proof that the War on Drugs was rooted in racism:

John Ehrlichman wrote:
The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.


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15 Sep 2021, 7:51 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
... proof that the War on Drugs was rooted in racism...
The War On Drugs is over.

The drugs won.



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15 Sep 2021, 6:57 pm

Fnord wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
... proof that the War on Drugs was rooted in racism...
The War On Drugs is over.

The drugs won.


Purdue won -they found a way to betray both the American people and the authorities. Brilliant. They deserve their billions they will have left after paying a few millions in fines. totally worth the effort.


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