Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

What are the Democrats going to do about welfare?

Page 3 of 5 [ 77 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

17 Sep 2021, 10:06 pm

Fnord wrote:
The most powerful tool any President has is the Veto.  With the stroke of a pen, any president can deny the passage of a bill into law, except when Congress has enough votes to over-ride the veto.


And how many votes is that?

kraftiekortie wrote:
To override a veto, there must be a 2/3's majority for the override. In other words, 67 Senators must vote for the override, and 291 members of the House of Representative must vote for the override.


Question answered. 8)



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

17 Sep 2021, 10:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
It is all there in our Constitution, Pepe.  I suggest you obtain a copy and read it.


So you are averse to sharing your knowledge.
Noted.

<Pepe waves are Kraftie> :mrgreen:



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

17 Sep 2021, 10:15 pm

Fnord wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Right now, its a "tie" in the Senate, with the Vice President (a Democrat) having the power to break the "tie."  Most of the time, though, in a practical sense, because of parliamentary procedure or whatever, it takes about a 60-40 Democratic majority for anything the Democrats want to be passed by the Senate.  Anything "liberal" happens to be opposed by a minority of Democrats----but enough so that the passing of "liberal" measures is problematic.
And yet Joe Biden is making massive legislative changes due to his position as President?  An "Interesting" system.  If this is correct, what stops him from improving the welfare system?
Republicans and Republican-voting Democrats in the Senate.  While there may technically be a "tie" by the numbers, this is in name only as long as Manchin and Sinema hold office.
More often than not, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski vote with the Dems on a lot of things.
Even so, it does not matter, like when two separate Articles of Impeachment got voted down in the Senate.

I tell you, we are still at an impasse here.


We certainly are, in getting to a resolution to the question about the perceived healthcare crisis in America. :mrgreen:

So why doesn't the Democratic party fix the welfare problems for the poor, again?
Do you agree that the system needs fixing?



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

17 Sep 2021, 10:18 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Although the Republicans have more senators the Democrats have control of the senate
Source senate.gov

117th Congress (2021–2023)
Majority Party: Democrats (48 seats)
Minority Party: Republicans (50 seats)
Other Parties: 2 Independents (both caucus with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100

Note: From January 3, 2021, to January 20, 2021, party division stood at 51 Republicans, 46 Democrats, 2 Independents (who caucused with the Democrats), and 1 vacancy. Both Senate seats in Georgia were up for election in 2020—the Class 2 seat held by Senator David Perdue, and the Class 3 seat held by appointed senator Kelly Loeffler (special election). No candidate in either race won a majority (50%+) as required by Georgia State law, forcing run-off elections for both seats held on January 5, 2021. Senator Perdue's term expired on January 3, 2021, resulting in a vacancy until the winner of the run-off election was sworn in. Democrats Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock defeated Perdue and Loeffler, respectively, in the run-off elections and were sworn in on January 20, bringing the party division to 50 Republicans, 48 Democrats, and 2 Independents (who caucus with the Democrats). Democrats hold the majority due to the tie-breaking vote of Vice President Kamala Harris.


Interesting.
But what has this got to do with the thread topic?

Are you saying nothing can be done to improve the welfare system for the poor because of the present American political situation?



Last edited by Pepe on 17 Sep 2021, 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

17 Sep 2021, 10:25 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
What are the Democrats going to do about welfare?

Not much, certainly not enough. :nerdy:


That is the impression I have, also.
But is it through a lack of will to change the system or the inability to do it?

I understand that Trump messed with Obamacare.
Have things reverted/improved?

I am genuinely interested in knowing if the problem with the system is purely a Republican ideology issue, or both parties are responsible.
Perhaps I should look in "The American Constitution" to find the answer. :P



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

17 Sep 2021, 10:28 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Democrats, technically, have control of the Senate because of the Vice President's "tie-breaking" power.

However, in practical terms, like Fnord said, it's pretty much of an "impasse."

In order for the Democrats to fully reap the benefits of this "control," they'd probably have to have about a 60-40 majority.


I don't believe it works this way in Australian politics in most situations.
Perhaps Brictoria can enlighten us.



Brictoria
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,998
Location: Melbourne, Australia

18 Sep 2021, 1:32 am

Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Democrats, technically, have control of the Senate because of the Vice President's "tie-breaking" power.

However, in practical terms, like Fnord said, it's pretty much of an "impasse."

In order for the Democrats to fully reap the benefits of this "control," they'd probably have to have about a 60-40 majority.


I don't believe it works this way in Australian politics in most situations.
Perhaps Brictoria can enlighten us.


I can try...
Starting at the basics:
Quote:
Unlike upper houses in other Westminster-style parliamentary systems, the Senate is vested with significant powers, including the capacity to reject all bills, including budget and appropriation bills, initiated by the government in the House of Representatives, making it a distinctive hybrid of British Westminster bicameralism and American-style bicameralism. As a result of proportional representation, the chamber features a multitude of parties vying for power. The governing party or coalition, which has to maintain the confidence of the lower house, has not held a majority in the Senate since 2005-2007 (and before that since 1981) and usually needs to negotiate with other parties and independents to get legislation passed

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Senate

The composition of the senate is distinctly different to that os the U.S.A., as we don't have the same "2 party" system (proportional voting here increases the possibility of minor parties gaining seats), so there's more consultation between parties in the Senate - The current Senate consisting of:
Liberal party and National Party (coalition of 2 individual parties[1]) - 36 seats
Australian Labor Party (ALP) - 26 seats
Greens (almost always aligned with the ALP) - 9 seats
4 minor parties, 3 with 1 seat each, the fourth with 2.

The "leader" of the Senate (President) is a senator who is elected to the position by the members of the Senate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_Senate_(Australia)

To get legislation through, a simple majority is required, with a tied vote indicating a negative result as outlined in section 23 of the constitution - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Senate#Voting - no "casting vote" possibility\option exists, by design.

The senate is also not permitted to introduce or amend bills related to\authorising governement spending or taxation, but can introduce bills for other reasons.

Hopefully that answers your query.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

18 Sep 2021, 3:18 am

Brictoria wrote:
To get legislation through, a simple majority is required, with a tied vote indicating a negative result as outlined in section 23 of the constitution - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Senate#Voting - no "casting vote" possibility\option exists, by design.


Thank you for your input. 8)

If I understand this correctly, only a *one* vote majority is required, here in Australia, rather than a 60/40 majority in America?
Am I talking "apples with apples"?



Brictoria
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,998
Location: Melbourne, Australia

18 Sep 2021, 3:56 am

Pepe wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
To get legislation through, a simple majority is required, with a tied vote indicating a negative result as outlined in section 23 of the constitution - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Senate#Voting - no "casting vote" possibility\option exists, by design.


Thank you for your input. 8)

If I understand this correctly, only a *one* vote majority is required, here in Australia, rather than a 60/40 majority in America?
Am I talking "apples with apples"?


Yes, that would be correct - With no "casting vote" option available (the President of the Senate's vote is counted at the same time as all other senator's), a bill which does not receive a majority (which includes a tied vote) means it fails to pass.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

18 Sep 2021, 5:40 am

Brictoria wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
To get legislation through, a simple majority is required, with a tied vote indicating a negative result as outlined in section 23 of the constitution - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Senate#Voting - no "casting vote" possibility\option exists, by design.


Thank you for your input. 8)

If I understand this correctly, only a *one* vote majority is required, here in Australia, rather than a 60/40 majority in America?
Am I talking "apples with apples"?


Yes, that would be correct - With no "casting vote" option available (the President of the Senate's vote is counted at the same time as all other senator's), a bill which does not receive a majority (which includes a tied vote) means it fails to pass.


That being true, how the hell does anything/k pass through American legislation? :scratch:
Rhetorical question. :mrgreen:



Brictoria
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,998
Location: Melbourne, Australia

18 Sep 2021, 6:07 am

Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Your data is wrong.  The Dems control the House, while the Reps control the Senate.

Besides, you are not even American, so why should you care?  Go mind your own government before slamming others.


This is my thread and I expect you to be civil. 8)


I'm curious how the act of questioning the manner in which a different country's government "works" could possibly be considered "slamming" it?

Whilst most people understand their own political systems, the systems in other countries will operate in different ways, and so it seems reasonable for a person to ask about something like this, which they may not fully understand and which their local media may not correctly represent in reporting on issues around it.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

18 Sep 2021, 6:24 am

Brictoria wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Your data is wrong.  The Dems control the House, while the Reps control the Senate.

Besides, you are not even American, so why should you care?  Go mind your own government before slamming others.


This is my thread and I expect you to be civil. 8)


I'm curious how the act of questioning the manner in which a different country's government "works" could possibly be considered "slamming" it?


Well, Fnord and I have had a contentious "relationship".
I wasn't surprised he thought I may have been having a go at his side of politics.
After all, I enjoy "funning" both sides, but the Truth is, I do enjoy joking about the progressive side more than the rational other one. :mrgreen:

Brictoria wrote:
Whilst most people understand their own political systems, the systems in other countries will operate in different ways, and so it seems reasonable for a person to ask about something like this, which they may not fully understand and which their local media may not correctly represent in reporting on issues around it.


The irony was, I was being serious, for a change.
That is what probably confused him.
I'll try not to do that again. <joke>

Hint, less emojis = greater seriousness. 8)
Oops, disregard the emoji with kool glasses. :mrgreen:
And that one too. 8O

I think I am in a loop.
Please, some call EA (Emoji Annonymous) :mrgreen:



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,583

18 Sep 2021, 11:02 am


Let's Step (And Strip) Away From the Smaller Picture About
"Social Welfare," If We Can And Will And See A Bigger

Picture of C O I N;

Yes, 'Conservative
Only In NAME NOW'
C O I N N, IF YOU LIKE,
Or Whatever Acronym
Someone Else Chooses

To Originally Create...

How Do You Spell (Sing) Social
Welfare; YES! MaKinG Vaccine
Mandates to Protect the Most

Vulnerable Among US Both Unvaccinated

Children And The More Vulnerable Vaccinated
Elder And Health Compromised Adults to CONSERVE

THEiR FRiGGING LIVES....

In Social Welfare For All!

HOW DO YOU PROTECT
THE CONSERVATION OF
REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS

AMONG YOUNG GIRLS WHO
ARE RAPED AND FORCED TO
CARRY THE CHILD TO TERM...

IN SHORT,

YOU
DO
NOT
RESTRICT
ABORTION
TO 6 WEEKS!

You Fight Against
That Ignorance as
The "Democrat Side"
And More Open Minded
Liberal Folks Are Currently
Doing Who Care More About Freedoms;
Yes, Life, Liberty, And The Pursuit of Individual
Happiness, Harming Others Least, More Than Just

Establishing Another

Traditional Theocracy of Ignoricism; Yes, A Religion
Of Ruling Ignorance On the Planet of Human's On Earth...

OBTW, Welcome to 'The Matrix', A Place of 'Avatars' Where
We No Longer Inhabit 'The Physical World' Nearly As Much;

Where We No Longer Sniff Each Other And Touch Each Other
Or In Some Cases, Hehe, Taste Each Other; Losing Entirely 3
Senses

of Our

'Normal'

Human Connections
With Long Distance Dating
Apps, Swiping Left and Right
That Surely May Eventually Leave

A Bad Smell, Taste, And Touch that
One Surely Wasn't Expecting With Only
Sight And Hearing AS Such; Yes, THere

Are Some Serious Drawbacks of Living

Modern "Matrix" "Avatar" Life As More
"Terminator Machines" Than Flesh and

Blood Moving, Connecting, Co-Creating Human Earth Beings...

Yet It's True, Humans Have Become A Vector of Pandemic Disease
That is Being Spread By Our Global Economy, Precipitated Most Ironically

By 'This New Version' of Our "Matrix" Ever Changing by "Moore's Law" As this
Ain't Windows 95 Anymore; And As A Side Note, Still Trying to Catch Up with
"Fred's Law" of Bi-Weekly Creative Output, Still Waiting on 5G Access that Brings

Me to my Next Social
Welfare Point; The Democrats
Fight to Not Only Fix our Infrastructure
Yet Improve Broad Band Access For All

in the More Socio-Economically Disadvantaged

Areas of the Country; As the Rules of MaKinG A Living
Are No Longer The Same; Sitting Behind A Laptop At Home With
Appropriate New Skills And Even Original Creativity Way Out of the
Box and Eccentric; And Sadly YouTube Creators Bonding Over Fear
And Hate and Conspiracy Theories too as Innumerable More Religions
of Ignoricism too; Never the Less, This is the New GIG Economy of MaKinG

A Living
Online Now
More Safely
As Global
Yes, Vectors
of Pandemic
Disease; IT is As
if 'Big Nature' Had
This DeSiGN Planned this
Way All Along; Yet since Yes,
Quantum Mechanics Suggests
That Time, Distance, Space and
Matter Is All An Illusion, Anyway, As
Oldest Eastern Religions And Philosophies
Suggest too in Sanskrit Ways; It what It IS NOW...

It's Like Moving The Same; Start Hurting And You Move
A Different Way; Simple Karma, You Adapt And Change
to Survive and Potentially Even Thrive or You DO NOT...

(I.E., If You Walk Straight on Sidewalks All Your Life, Even iF iT
Looks Strange, Yes! Walk Backwards to Rid Yourself of Back Pain)

By Very Nature, Still, Conservative Human Nature, is More Adverse
to Change; This Is Surely Not All Bad NoW in the Same Way That Being
Liberal is Not All Good; As Tradition is What Bonds and Binds Human
Groups Together Most; And By Very Nature of Tradition it is Exclusive

Of those who
Do Not Bond
And Bind
Over the

Similar Symbols
And Ideologies of Tradition...

Tradition Keeps the Bonds and
Binds of Successful Procreation
In Check too; Like Catholic Rules
That Say KEEP DOING IT NOW, NEVER
STOP AS LONG AS YOU ARE DOING
IT, MAKE AS MANY BABIES AS LONG
AS YOU DO IT; Meh, For A Species

Living Out of Balance With
Population Pressures
Killing off Much
of the Balance
of Breathing
Nature NOW

THAT JUST WON'T
WORK ANYMORE, IF
WE EXPECT TO SURVIVE
AND THRIVE IN THE LONGER

RUN FOR ALL OF SOCIAL WELFARE NOW!

So Now We Live As Avatars, Terminator Machines
of Change in A Matrix that is Always Changing, Diffuse
In Human Tradition Where Fertility is Ever Decreasing Now

in this way...

And Yes of Course
The Opiates of the
Masses Are Dependent
on Broad Band Access Now too...

The Opiates of the Masses are On-Screen Now
And the Religion of the Hopeful Theocracy That
Dominates Minions With Despicable Leaders Has

Most Definitely Changed, For it is as easy to Find True
Peaceful Loving Enlightenment on Screen; As it is to Find A 'Zillion Religions
Of Ignoricism' Now That Support As Many Conspiracy Theories as A Person

May Enjoy
In A Tradition
of Bonding and
Binding Over Fear
And All Stuff Emotions
And Feelings and Senses
Related to YUCK HATE YUCK...

IT IS what IT IS, the Human Condition...

Yet Still Boats Require Anchors for Safe
Harbor And Sails to Find New Subsistence;

And As Far As Science Shows; It Already Now
Shows that More Open Minded Social Empathic
Feeling Human Beings Care More About the Social
Welfare of Everyone Concerned, Far Out of the Tradition

Of Any One
Box of Yes
Theocratic
Religions Now
Of Ignoricism;
Where THeiR only
Remaining Advantage
Is A Tradition of Voting
ONLY REPUBLICAN STILL NOW....

The World Is Changing And So Are
People; the Older Ages of BIG TRADITIONAL
THEOCRATIC RELIGIONS OF IGNORICISM ARE PASSING AWAY...

What We Are Left With By the Nature of the Human Condition
Are Human Beings Born and or Gardened to Be More or Less

Liberal or
Conservative
As Of Course

In Epigenetic
And Neuroplastic
Terms Change Does

Happen in One Lifetime
This Way; Just Like Moving
From Introverted to Extroverted

And Systemizing Science to More
Social Empathic Artistic Spiritual
Caring Ways Of Life For More of the
Human Condition to See And Help
And Yes! Bring Greater Social Welfare to
All as Yes of Course Real Social Justice Warriors
That of Course is Only a Practice and An Art Where

Mistakes Will Come
too that Do Require
More Conservative
Anchors That Make
Sure We Continue to
Actually Stay In Safe Harbors,

Where Ironically the More Conservative
Liberals Are Demanding We don't Harm
Our Children And Kill Our Vulnerable and
Other Elder Vaccinated Population in Religions
of Ignorance in Deadly Pandemic Disease and

Additionally, More Specific to the Topic At Hand,
The Last 2 Trillion Dollar Social Welfare Package
For the Pandemic Challenge Would Have Never
Happened at the Hand of Republican Control...

Why?

The 'Other Side' Still
Cares More About
Social Welfare as
By Basic Human

Nature; Liberal Leaning
Folks Always Will For those
Outside of Their Individual
Tradition and or Church In-Group Doors...

And That is Just Human Nature As Assessed by
Science; Some Folks Care About Those Outside
The Church Doors More than Others; Like the Story

Book Dude Jesus

That in Reality

Wouldn't Be

Welcomed in
Many of those
Churches for His
Obvious Super Liberal
Human Nature Turning the
Other Cheek Loving The Enemy

That is Surely Not Conservative...

Nor is Even Torturing Folks For Being
Bad Forever That is Just plain PSYCHOPATHIC...

SADLY, THERE ARE SOME OF THOSE "Jack The Ripper Jesus' LEANING FOLKS

More Prevalent And More Easily Measurable Per Check-List items on the

Republican
Side Still of
Doing Human

Nature; Again,

Just Check-List
Items, no Arm-Chair Diagnoses
Necessary When Other Humans
Are Being Harmed Callously As Such...

Horribly As Such Like Little Girls Forced Carrying
Daddy's Child and Unmasked Children By Choice of
LawS in a Deadly Pandemic That Insists on Not Saving Human Lives...

The 'Democrat Side' is Doing the Best They Can And Will Not to Let The Other
Side Kill People Through Ignorance; Core of Social Welfare Indeed And
Additionally the Only Humane Human, John McCain, in Terms of Caring

About People

Outside of His

Group Last Go around
When the Republican
Side Tried to Kill Health
Care for So Many Folks
That Yes Would Have Literally
Killed So Many Human Beings too...

The Democratic Side is Insuring that
Doesn't Happen Again for Now... If there
is Any Sign of A Sick Society, Our Country
Has Been Rife With Signs Through Every Unwarranted
War that Has Killed So Many People IN Other Countries

And Our

Country

too... Yes,
Social Welfare
Is Always THE
NUMBER ONE
HUMAN PRIORITY

AMONG HUMANS
WHO ARE IN ANY WAY
SHAPE OR FORM, Yes iN Essence HUMANE...

Humane is Far Beyond Conservative, Liberal,
Republican, Independent, Or Democrat;

Humane,

Cares; End
And Beginning
Again Living Breathing
Peaceful Loving Starting

And Never Finishing Story At Least

For Now THE HUMAN Condition REAL...

Unmasked And Really Peaceful Caring Loving All...

Giving, Sharing, Freely Without Restraint And Yes,

All 'That Good Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Jazz Stuff'

NoW True iN 'Tao FLoW' As More Humane Story

Books Autotelic Outside of Restricted Labels

Rule

Now...
The Name
Human is Enough
Clothed With Peace
And Love HUMANE.


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

18 Sep 2021, 12:18 pm

It takes a simple majority to pass bills, once it’s placed before the full House/Senate for consideration.

The 60/40 thing comes into play within the process that leads to the bill being placed to the full House/Senate. A bill must “come out of committee” in order to be placed before the full House/Senate. The games that are played in the process is what complicates things.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

19 Sep 2021, 8:51 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It takes a simple majority to pass bills, once it’s placed before the full House/Senate for consideration.

The 60/40 thing comes into play within the process that leads to the bill being placed to the full House/Senate. A bill must “come out of committee” in order to be placed before the full House/Senate. The games that are played in the process is what complicates things.


I'm pretty sure it is a simple majority vote over here for that too, but since we have independents and more parties, there can be a lot of horse-trading, particularly with a well hung parliament.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,062
Location: temperate zone

19 Sep 2021, 5:35 pm

"Welfare" is controlled by the state government, and not by the Feds anyway. So Biden doesnt have much to do with it.

And because of the covid everything related to things like that (like unemployment compensation) is in temporary upheavel anyway. The country will be in crises mode before it returns to the normal status quo (be that a bad or a good status quo).