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babybird
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27 Sep 2021, 11:21 am

Idk I go through phases of understanding why drugs are "bad" and then I switch to the other extreme.

I had a good friend who happened to be a heroin addict and he used to always tell me "everything in moderation". I tend to try and see it from this point of view if I can.

I also think that even if drugs were fully legalised then people would still look down their noses at you if you took them.

It's also a class thing. In the UK you're judged for drinking alcohol every day if you're working class but if you're middle class and you have a drink every day then it's perfectly fine.

You should just do what you do ultimately.



Brictoria
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29 Sep 2021, 11:47 am

Attendees at British music festival Glastonbury were so loaded on drugs that their pee may have poisoned the local water supply

Quote:
There can be many terrible consequences to ingesting illegal drugs—death, ruined health, ruined families, and oh yeah also killing local aquatic wildlife:

Quote:
Public urination at Glastonbury Festival led to illegal drugs entering a river running through the famous Somerset site in southwestern England, potentially harming wildlife, according to a new study.

Researchers at Bangor University in Walesdiscovered high levels of cocaine and MDMA in the Whitelake River, which runs through Worthy Farm, where the hugely-popular music festival is usually held with more than 200,000 attendees.

The study found MDMA concentrations quadrupled the week after the2019 festival, while cocaine concentrations reached levels previously shown to affect the life cycle of European eels -- which are present in the river and are critically endangered.


You can almost picture it: Strung-out concertgoers just tapping it wherever they want, all weekend long, and suddenly they begin to hear some blood-curdling caterwauling from the nearby Whitelake River. Someone drunkenly asks: "What's that sound?"

Image

If the drugs haven't yet killed all the eels, hopefully at least they're having a good time.

Source: https://notthebee.com/article/attendees-at-a-british-music-festival-may-have-poisoned-a-local-water-supply-because-their-pee-had-so-much-illegal-drugs-in-it


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Axeman
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30 Sep 2021, 6:23 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
You will likely hate my reply, but it is from my point of view on the topic at hand.

The answer is because it damages your body in some manner over time. I know the effects of drug molecules upon the human body. People can become addicted to certain drugs (yes, including alcohol and nicotine) to the point that they have to have them to be able to function. It becomes a problem, like it or not.

For example, let us look at marijuana. People say it cannot be bad because it is natural. Well, the forms being sold today are heavily modified strains that contain much more THC than the original plant ever had naturally. Consumption of high levels of THC over time modifies the human brain in scientific studies. It has been long suspected of causing cognitive damage long term upon chronic usage. These type of medical studies prove that by comparing brain scans of the same people over years of usage compared to those who do not use the drug (the control group). In the right concentration, it can be medically useful for certain conditions. I am not talking about those amounts in the above statement.

Look, I have no problem if someone wants to legally consume said drugs in their own dwelling away from me. However I become very displeased when others either try to force me to consume it with them (a hard NO!) or choose to smoke it around my living space. My father died of COPD from smoking cigarettes, along with most of his brothers. The predisposition for developing that condition occurs in my family, so I try to avoid smoke and smoking at all costs. Besides it really reeks to me personally (and I am a chemist that is used to very stinking substances).

Tobacco and marijuana both have toxic components in their smoke. It is not a contest to see which one is better, they are both bad to breathe into your lungs. For the record, I get just as displeased of tobacco smoke as marijuana smoke. My apartment has an area for smokers to use outside of the building. I turn in violators that smoke inside of the building, as it is against their lease agreements to be doing so. I have no problem with those that follow the rules.

Misusing even “harmless” drugs like aspirin can cause health damage. It is possible to overdose on almost any chemical substance and cause issues. Why would you openly chose to do so is beyond my comprehension.


What about caffeine? I'd go nuts without three or four cups of coffee a day.



Axeman
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30 Sep 2021, 6:28 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
Aside from marijuana and magic mushrooms, the only ones of which I support legalization, I have to agree with QC.

Even then, it isn’t so much the drugs that are the problem, but our law enforcement policies regarding drugs. The “War on Drugs” was really the “War on Blacks”, per the Nixon administration.
And with voter suppression all the rage in the red states, it’s no wonder their governors oppose legalization. There is a book called “The New Jim Crow” by Michelle Alexander that explains their motives far better than I can in this thread.

Alabama, Idaho and Nebraska don’t even allow medical marijuana. In Alabama, possessing even an amount the size of a fast-food ketchup packet carries a 25-year prison sentence on first offense.


Illinois made it fully legal about a year ago. Some states it's fully legal.snd some it's 25 years. Makes no sense. Alcohol is a far more dangerous drug and that's legal everywhere.



QuantumChemist
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30 Sep 2021, 9:34 am

Axeman wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
You will likely hate my reply, but it is from my point of view on the topic at hand.

The answer is because it damages your body in some manner over time. I know the effects of drug molecules upon the human body. People can become addicted to certain drugs (yes, including alcohol and nicotine) to the point that they have to have them to be able to function. It becomes a problem, like it or not.

For example, let us look at marijuana. People say it cannot be bad because it is natural. Well, the forms being sold today are heavily modified strains that contain much more THC than the original plant ever had naturally. Consumption of high levels of THC over time modifies the human brain in scientific studies. It has been long suspected of causing cognitive damage long term upon chronic usage. These type of medical studies prove that by comparing brain scans of the same people over years of usage compared to those who do not use the drug (the control group). In the right concentration, it can be medically useful for certain conditions. I am not talking about those amounts in the above statement.

Look, I have no problem if someone wants to legally consume said drugs in their own dwelling away from me. However I become very displeased when others either try to force me to consume it with them (a hard NO!) or choose to smoke it around my living space. My father died of COPD from smoking cigarettes, along with most of his brothers. The predisposition for developing that condition occurs in my family, so I try to avoid smoke and smoking at all costs. Besides it really reeks to me personally (and I am a chemist that is used to very stinking substances).

Tobacco and marijuana both have toxic components in their smoke. It is not a contest to see which one is better, they are both bad to breathe into your lungs. For the record, I get just as displeased of tobacco smoke as marijuana smoke. My apartment has an area for smokers to use outside of the building. I turn in violators that smoke inside of the building, as it is against their lease agreements to be doing so. I have no problem with those that follow the rules.

Misusing even “harmless” drugs like aspirin can cause health damage. It is possible to overdose on almost any chemical substance and cause issues. Why would you openly chose to do so is beyond my comprehension.


What about caffeine? I'd go nuts without three or four cups of coffee a day.


It too can cause issues. I had a former student that needed five or six shots of expresso just to get going in the morning. He came to lab once without it and was a zombie. He eventually had to cut back due to heart issues, as it was putting too much stress on his heart via high blood pressure. I do not consume caffeine if I can avoid it, as water is my choice to drink. Occasionally I will get a unsweetened iced tea with my meals. I do not drink coffee, never have and never will.



QuantumChemist
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30 Sep 2021, 9:59 am

Brictoria wrote:
Attendees at British music festival Glastonbury were so loaded on drugs that their pee may have poisoned the local water supply
Quote:
There can be many terrible consequences to ingesting illegal drugs—death, ruined health, ruined families, and oh yeah also killing local aquatic wildlife:

Quote:
Public urination at Glastonbury Festival led to illegal drugs entering a river running through the famous Somerset site in southwestern England, potentially harming wildlife, according to a new study.

Researchers at Bangor University in Walesdiscovered high levels of cocaine and MDMA in the Whitelake River, which runs through Worthy Farm, where the hugely-popular music festival is usually held with more than 200,000 attendees.

The study found MDMA concentrations quadrupled the week after the2019 festival, while cocaine concentrations reached levels previously shown to affect the life cycle of European eels -- which are present in the river and are critically endangered.


You can almost picture it: Strung-out concertgoers just tapping it wherever they want, all weekend long, and suddenly they begin to hear some blood-curdling caterwauling from the nearby Whitelake River. Someone drunkenly asks: "What's that sound?"

Image

If the drugs haven't yet killed all the eels, hopefully at least they're having a good time.

Source: https://notthebee.com/article/attendees-at-a-british-music-festival-may-have-poisoned-a-local-water-supply-because-their-pee-had-so-much-illegal-drugs-in-it


I used that news article as a teaching moment in my classes this week. Many students did not initially connect that what you consume eventually ends up in the environment around them. Drugs can often be measured in sewage water before treatment at a municipality plant.



Axeman
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30 Sep 2021, 12:21 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
Axeman wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
You will likely hate my reply, but it is from my point of view on the topic at hand.

The answer is because it damages your body in some manner over time. I know the effects of drug molecules upon the human body. People can become addicted to certain drugs (yes, including alcohol and nicotine) to the point that they have to have them to be able to function. It becomes a problem, like it or not.

For example, let us look at marijuana. People say it cannot be bad because it is natural. Well, the forms being sold today are heavily modified strains that contain much more THC than the original plant ever had naturally. Consumption of high levels of THC over time modifies the human brain in scientific studies. It has been long suspected of causing cognitive damage long term upon chronic usage. These type of medical studies prove that by comparing brain scans of the same people over years of usage compared to those who do not use the drug (the control group). In the right concentration, it can be medically useful for certain conditions. I am not talking about those amounts in the above statement.

Look, I have no problem if someone wants to legally consume said drugs in their own dwelling away from me. However I become very displeased when others either try to force me to consume it with them (a hard NO!) or choose to smoke it around my living space. My father died of COPD from smoking cigarettes, along with most of his brothers. The predisposition for developing that condition occurs in my family, so I try to avoid smoke and smoking at all costs. Besides it really reeks to me personally (and I am a chemist that is used to very stinking substances).

Tobacco and marijuana both have toxic components in their smoke. It is not a contest to see which one is better, they are both bad to breathe into your lungs. For the record, I get just as displeased of tobacco smoke as marijuana smoke. My apartment has an area for smokers to use outside of the building. I turn in violators that smoke inside of the building, as it is against their lease agreements to be doing so. I have no problem with those that follow the rules.

Misusing even “harmless” drugs like aspirin can cause health damage. It is possible to overdose on almost any chemical substance and cause issues. Why would you openly chose to do so is beyond my comprehension.


What about caffeine? I'd go nuts without three or four cups of coffee a day.


It too can cause issues. I had a former student that needed five or six shots of expresso just to get going in the morning. He came to lab once without it and was a zombie. He eventually had to cut back due to heart issues, as it was putting too much stress on his heart via high blood pressure. I do not consume caffeine if I can avoid it, as water is my choice to drink. Occasionally I will get a unsweetened iced tea with my meals. I do not drink coffee, never have and never will.


Wow a scientist who doesn't drink coffee. Amazing.



Axeman
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30 Sep 2021, 12:55 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Attendees at British music festival Glastonbury were so loaded on drugs that their pee may have poisoned the local water supply
Quote:
There can be many terrible consequences to ingesting illegal drugs—death, ruined health, ruined families, and oh yeah also killing local aquatic wildlife:

Quote:
Public urination at Glastonbury Festival led to illegal drugs entering a river running through the famous Somerset site in southwestern England, potentially harming wildlife, according to a new study.

Researchers at Bangor University in Walesdiscovered high levels of cocaine and MDMA in the Whitelake River, which runs through Worthy Farm, where the hugely-popular music festival is usually held with more than 200,000 attendees.

The study found MDMA concentrations quadrupled the week after the2019 festival, while cocaine concentrations reached levels previously shown to affect the life cycle of European eels -- which are present in the river and are critically endangered.


You can almost picture it: Strung-out concertgoers just tapping it wherever they want, all weekend long, and suddenly they begin to hear some blood-curdling caterwauling from the nearby Whitelake River. Someone drunkenly asks: "What's that sound?"

Image

If the drugs haven't yet killed all the eels, hopefully at least they're having a good time.

Source: https://notthebee.com/article/attendees-at-a-british-music-festival-may-have-poisoned-a-local-water-supply-because-their-pee-had-so-much-illegal-drugs-in-it


I used that news article as a teaching moment in my classes this week. Many students did not initially connect that what you consume eventually ends up in the environment around them. Drugs can often be measured in sewage water before treatment at a municipality plant.


One thing I found interesting in Biochemistry was learning that sugars are partially oxidized hydrocarbons ie gasoline like molecules. I thought maybe cells evolved enzymes to further oxidize them initially not to use their energy to drive proton pumps to make ATP but just as a means of detoxifying them.



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30 Sep 2021, 3:18 pm

While it is true that thinking of things in black and white terms is oversimplifying the issue, as others have said, it most definitely stems from how harmful drugs can be on people's bodies, as well as their propensity to derail lives. Obviously the OP is referring to illicit drugs, as there are plenty of more licit varieties that doctors may prescribe, or which can be easily acquired at any grocery store. Of course, another thing that the illicit type have working against them is there's no doctor prescribing them period, let alone something like dosage. Drugs are risky.

Of course, we're all judge, jury and executioner over what we choose to put into our own bodies. Obviously people do drugs because of how they make them feel. I have a hard time understanding what the upside of meth is, but there are others that kind of make sense if you're wanting to have a good time (at least in the short term). A lot of drugs have long-term consequences, mind you, and that is concerning.



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30 Sep 2021, 8:36 pm

QuantumChemist
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30 Sep 2021, 9:02 pm

Tross wrote:
While it is true that thinking of things in black and white terms is oversimplifying the issue, as others have said, it most definitely stems from how harmful drugs can be on people's bodies, as well as their propensity to derail lives. Obviously the OP is referring to illicit drugs, as there are plenty of more licit varieties that doctors may prescribe, or which can be easily acquired at any grocery store. Of course, another thing that the illicit type have working against them is there's no doctor prescribing them period, let alone something like dosage. Drugs are risky.

Of course, we're all judge, jury and executioner over what we choose to put into our own bodies. Obviously people do drugs because of how they make them feel. I have a hard time understanding what the upside of meth is, but there are others that kind of make sense if you're wanting to have a good time (at least in the short term). A lot of drugs have long-term consequences, mind you, and that is concerning.


We had a guest speaker come to my university to talk about chemical addictions on reservation areas and how to medically teat them. Native Americans addicted to alcohol who cannot legally buy alcohol (on reservations) will often seek out other things to get their fix. One of the worst ones is drinking Pine-sol cleaner. It basically causes brain damage over a few years of repeated usage. That fact still does not distract the addicts from drinking it till death. Meth causes similar damage to the body.

One of my special topic areas is in the knowledge of poisons of all types. A century ago, there was a big problem at ivy league schools. Seems it became “cool” to mix chloroform with alcohol and then drink it. In low concentrations, it is a sedative (when vaporized). However if it is drank in larger quantities, it causes great damage to the body that can lead to death over time. Many students got addicted to it and then passed away early due to their addiction. These students were smart enough to know better, but chose the other direction.



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30 Sep 2021, 10:19 pm

I say legalize everything. The illegality of drugs causes far more problems than it solves.



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01 Oct 2021, 3:21 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
Tross wrote:
While it is true that thinking of things in black and white terms is oversimplifying the issue, as others have said, it most definitely stems from how harmful drugs can be on people's bodies, as well as their propensity to derail lives. Obviously the OP is referring to illicit drugs, as there are plenty of more licit varieties that doctors may prescribe, or which can be easily acquired at any grocery store. Of course, another thing that the illicit type have working against them is there's no doctor prescribing them period, let alone something like dosage. Drugs are risky.

Of course, we're all judge, jury and executioner over what we choose to put into our own bodies. Obviously people do drugs because of how they make them feel. I have a hard time understanding what the upside of meth is, but there are others that kind of make sense if you're wanting to have a good time (at least in the short term). A lot of drugs have long-term consequences, mind you, and that is concerning.


We had a guest speaker come to my university to talk about chemical addictions on reservation areas and how to medically teat them. Native Americans addicted to alcohol who cannot legally buy alcohol (on reservations) will often seek out other things to get their fix. One of the worst ones is drinking Pine-sol cleaner. It basically causes brain damage over a few years of repeated usage. That fact still does not distract the addicts from drinking it till death. Meth causes similar damage to the body.

One of my special topic areas is in the knowledge of poisons of all types. A century ago, there was a big problem at ivy league schools. Seems it became “cool” to mix chloroform with alcohol and then drink it. In low concentrations, it is a sedative (when vaporized). However if it is drank in larger quantities, it causes great damage to the body that can lead to death over time. Many students got addicted to it and then passed away early due to their addiction. These students were smart enough to know better, but chose the other direction.
Whoa. Yeah, alcohol can be a bad drug too, but alternatives, and mixing it with other things can be even worse. It's interesting to know that even ivy league students (who you'd think would be some of the most intelligent people you could meet) would willingly get themselves hooked on such an obviously horrid concoction.



QuantumChemist
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01 Oct 2021, 8:57 am

Axeman wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
Axeman wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
You will likely hate my reply, but it is from my point of view on the topic at hand.

The answer is because it damages your body in some manner over time. I know the effects of drug molecules upon the human body. People can become addicted to certain drugs (yes, including alcohol and nicotine) to the point that they have to have them to be able to function. It becomes a problem, like it or not.

For example, let us look at marijuana. People say it cannot be bad because it is natural. Well, the forms being sold today are heavily modified strains that contain much more THC than the original plant ever had naturally. Consumption of high levels of THC over time modifies the human brain in scientific studies. It has been long suspected of causing cognitive damage long term upon chronic usage. These type of medical studies prove that by comparing brain scans of the same people over years of usage compared to those who do not use the drug (the control group). In the right concentration, it can be medically useful for certain conditions. I am not talking about those amounts in the above statement.

Look, I have no problem if someone wants to legally consume said drugs in their own dwelling away from me. However I become very displeased when others either try to force me to consume it with them (a hard NO!) or choose to smoke it around my living space. My father died of COPD from smoking cigarettes, along with most of his brothers. The predisposition for developing that condition occurs in my family, so I try to avoid smoke and smoking at all costs. Besides it really reeks to me personally (and I am a chemist that is used to very stinking substances).

Tobacco and marijuana both have toxic components in their smoke. It is not a contest to see which one is better, they are both bad to breathe into your lungs. For the record, I get just as displeased of tobacco smoke as marijuana smoke. My apartment has an area for smokers to use outside of the building. I turn in violators that smoke inside of the building, as it is against their lease agreements to be doing so. I have no problem with those that follow the rules.

Misusing even “harmless” drugs like aspirin can cause health damage. It is possible to overdose on almost any chemical substance and cause issues. Why would you openly chose to do so is beyond my comprehension.


What about caffeine? I'd go nuts without three or four cups of coffee a day.


It too can cause issues. I had a former student that needed five or six shots of expresso just to get going in the morning. He came to lab once without it and was a zombie. He eventually had to cut back due to heart issues, as it was putting too much stress on his heart via high blood pressure. I do not consume caffeine if I can avoid it, as water is my choice to drink. Occasionally I will get a unsweetened iced tea with my meals. I do not drink coffee, never have and never will.


Wow a scientist who doesn't drink coffee. Amazing.


I just do not need it to be alive in the morning. When I get up, I am awake until I go back to bed later that night. If I feel tired, I will drink a low sodium V8 to wake me up. It is something that others may need to survive, but not me. I used to work overnight in grad school without feeling tired at all. Unfortunately I cannot do that anymore, as time has caught up with me on that one. I now need seven hours of sleep to function well the next day.

My father used to drink a cold cup of cider vinegar in the morning and at night instead of coffee. He rarely drank coffee while working as he was constantly on the go. He did start drinking it more in the hospital shortly before he passed on from COPD.



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01 Oct 2021, 11:31 am

Just on this point; I've been using cbd oil lately. I have been diagnosed with a spinal cord injury and I have suffered quite a lot of pain for quite a while. No painkillers will touch this pain so I thought I would go My own way.

I don't wanna smoke week with thc because it doesn't suit my brain so I went for the cbd. This is legal in my corner of the world but you can't get it on script and it is still controversial and looked down upon by certain people.

I've spoken to both my physiotherapist and my doctor and told them both about me using this drug and both of them haven't asked me how it is for me nor have they bothered to offer me an alternative on prescription.

So I'm thinking that even though this drug is looked down upon by some people it isn't looked at as a bad thing by medical professionals.



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01 Oct 2021, 11:35 am

Axeman wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
You will likely hate my reply, but it is from my point of view on the topic at hand.

The answer is because it damages your body in some manner over time. I know the effects of drug molecules upon the human body. People can become addicted to certain drugs (yes, including alcohol and nicotine) to the point that they have to have them to be able to function. It becomes a problem, like it or not.

For example, let us look at marijuana. People say it cannot be bad because it is natural. Well, the forms being sold today are heavily modified strains that contain much more THC than the original plant ever had naturally. Consumption of high levels of THC over time modifies the human brain in scientific studies. It has been long suspected of causing cognitive damage long term upon chronic usage. These type of medical studies prove that by comparing brain scans of the same people over years of usage compared to those who do not use the drug (the control group). In the right concentration, it can be medically useful for certain conditions. I am not talking about those amounts in the above statement.

Look, I have no problem if someone wants to legally consume said drugs in their own dwelling away from me. However I become very displeased when others either try to force me to consume it with them (a hard NO!) or choose to smoke it around my living space. My father died of COPD from smoking cigarettes, along with most of his brothers. The predisposition for developing that condition occurs in my family, so I try to avoid smoke and smoking at all costs. Besides it really reeks to me personally (and I am a chemist that is used to very stinking substances).

Tobacco and marijuana both have toxic components in their smoke. It is not a contest to see which one is better, they are both bad to breathe into your lungs. For the record, I get just as displeased of tobacco smoke as marijuana smoke. My apartment has an area for smokers to use outside of the building. I turn in violators that smoke inside of the building, as it is against their lease agreements to be doing so. I have no problem with those that follow the rules.

Misusing even “harmless” drugs like aspirin can cause health damage. It is possible to overdose on almost any chemical substance and cause issues. Why would you openly chose to do so is beyond my comprehension.


What about caffeine? I'd go nuts without three or four cups of coffee a day.

Image


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“It's scary how betrayal can never let you trust that person again.” - Garima Soni

"Sometimes I think that this is an era when sanity has become controversial." - Thomas Sowell