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Sweetleaf
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25 Sep 2021, 6:23 am

Like idk maybe I have done a lot of drugs(I have)...but I don't see the moral qualm with it. Like Idk drugs are fun they can also be dangerous...not unlike non-drug expriences people go for like sky-diving out a plane. So idk why is it worse to do drugs to get a high than to jump out a plane to get high?

Seems that is what it comes down to, wanna do a cliff climbing trip no problem...wanna do a mushroom trip, well better keep it to yourself and not let anyone in who isn't already tripping with you. When Idk maybe everyone should do shrooms at least once.


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QuantumChemist
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25 Sep 2021, 11:08 am

You will likely hate my reply, but it is from my point of view on the topic at hand.

The answer is because it damages your body in some manner over time. I know the effects of drug molecules upon the human body. People can become addicted to certain drugs (yes, including alcohol and nicotine) to the point that they have to have them to be able to function. It becomes a problem, like it or not.

For example, let us look at marijuana. People say it cannot be bad because it is natural. Well, the forms being sold today are heavily modified strains that contain much more THC than the original plant ever had naturally. Consumption of high levels of THC over time modifies the human brain in scientific studies. It has been long suspected of causing cognitive damage long term upon chronic usage. These type of medical studies prove that by comparing brain scans of the same people over years of usage compared to those who do not use the drug (the control group). In the right concentration, it can be medically useful for certain conditions. I am not talking about those amounts in the above statement.

Look, I have no problem if someone wants to legally consume said drugs in their own dwelling away from me. However I become very displeased when others either try to force me to consume it with them (a hard NO!) or choose to smoke it around my living space. My father died of COPD from smoking cigarettes, along with most of his brothers. The predisposition for developing that condition occurs in my family, so I try to avoid smoke and smoking at all costs. Besides it really reeks to me personally (and I am a chemist that is used to very stinking substances).

Tobacco and marijuana both have toxic components in their smoke. It is not a contest to see which one is better, they are both bad to breathe into your lungs. For the record, I get just as displeased of tobacco smoke as marijuana smoke. My apartment has an area for smokers to use outside of the building. I turn in violators that smoke inside of the building, as it is against their lease agreements to be doing so. I have no problem with those that follow the rules.

Misusing even “harmless” drugs like aspirin can cause health damage. It is possible to overdose on almost any chemical substance and cause issues. Why would you openly chose to do so is beyond my comprehension.



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25 Sep 2021, 11:26 am

Aside from marijuana and magic mushrooms, the only ones of which I support legalization, I have to agree with QC.

Even then, it isn’t so much the drugs that are the problem, but our law enforcement policies regarding drugs. The “War on Drugs” was really the “War on Blacks”, per the Nixon administration.
And with voter suppression all the rage in the red states, it’s no wonder their governors oppose legalization. There is a book called “The New Jim Crow” by Michelle Alexander that explains their motives far better than I can in this thread.

Alabama, Idaho and Nebraska don’t even allow medical marijuana. In Alabama, possessing even an amount the size of a fast-food ketchup packet carries a 25-year prison sentence on first offense.


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funeralxempire
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25 Sep 2021, 11:57 am

Ignorance and misinformation, primarily.


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25 Sep 2021, 12:47 pm

Mushrooms are being studied for their benefits to mental health.
https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcent ... 019-0308-4


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League_Girl
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25 Sep 2021, 12:59 pm

Because it damages your brain over time. It makes you dysfunctional too over time. Plus they are addicting. Have there been people that used drugs and didn't get any brain damage nor addicted? Yeah but that is the same argument as "I used them and turned out fine" when people argue to say why something isn't bad and why it should be okay.


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shlaifu
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25 Sep 2021, 7:49 pm

because in a disciplinary socjety, undisciplined behaviour is policed by society.
we are however moving away from a disciplinary society, in which you need to be punctual for your shift at the assembly line, towards a more disordered society, where there is no fixed shift you could be late for.
You'll have to look out for yourself, and optimize yourself. You can have mushrooms, or THC, and if that makes you perform better: good. If not, someone else will do the job.

so, in a way, a disciplinary society still needed you to function, in society, and at work.
this more liberal society we're moving towards is more lenient - because at its core, you're not needed.

so, drug legslization is on its way, but it's coming with the disintegration of a certain kind of lifestyle that was prevalent in the west in the 20th century, and which still exists in some areas of the world, or hasn't even arrived in others.


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blazingstar
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25 Sep 2021, 8:01 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Mushrooms are being studied for their benefits to mental health.
https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcent ... 019-0308-4


As is LSD.


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blazingstar
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25 Sep 2021, 8:02 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Ignorance and misinformation, primarily.


Agreed


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MrsPeel
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26 Sep 2021, 2:20 am

shlaifu wrote:
because in a disciplinary socjety, undisciplined behaviour is policed by society.
we are however moving away from a disciplinary society, in which you need to be punctual for your shift at the assembly line, towards a more disordered society, where there is no fixed shift you could be late for.
You'll have to look out for yourself, and optimize yourself. You can have mushrooms, or THC, and if that makes you perform better: good. If not, someone else will do the job.

so, in a way, a disciplinary society still needed you to function, in society, and at work.
this more liberal society we're moving towards is more lenient - because at its core, you're not needed.

so, drug legslization is on its way, but it's coming with the disintegration of a certain kind of lifestyle that was prevalent in the west in the 20th century, and which still exists in some areas of the world, or hasn't even arrived in others.


Interesting take on it, and I am inclined to agree.
We seem to be moving towards a society where people can be free to take whatever "poison" they like - because if you drop out of society someone else will take your place and no-one will care what happens to you.
Sounds harsh, but that's how I see things going at the moment.



TheRobotLives
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26 Sep 2021, 5:34 am

Drug use is linked to unemployment.


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AnomalousAspergian
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26 Sep 2021, 6:28 am

I have never really understood the point of legalising drugs. If it is legalised it would have to be heavily regulated by government but after years of reactionary, baseless demonisation of government regulation as 'communist' I doubt there would be any political will to do so.

If it is legalised it will probably be a boon for big corporations who may eventually end up selling ever more addictive drugs over time, depending on consumer demand. In other words, it isn't likely going to result in a paradise in which the growing of drugs by citizens is permitted if corporate ownership and commercialisation takes place because they would see it as a threat to their profit motive, much like the entertainment industry's opposition towards torrenting.

People who want drugs legalised fall back on saying marijuana is not addictive and they often use the ever reductive argument that everything, coffee and so on is, a drug to justify legalisation. Surely if something feels good it is likely to have addictive effects, depending on how dependent someone is on it, the social environment they are in and their overall mental health and personality? Unfortunately, the insular libertarian argument that we don't care if someone takes drugs in their own home is also loaded with the point that they wouldn't care about an individual's drug use until that person develop a dependency and addiction to drugs (I am assuming that care would arise in a libertarian mindset towards addiction). By then, the cycle of addiction would already be well underway. In other words, care is suspended until cycles of addiction already take hold.

Thus, I get tired of hearing the same tired statement: 'I don't care what you choose to do in your own house' in the context of drug use. If that sort of it is applied more generally to EVERYTHING I don't think we would all tolerate the sort of ignorant, selfish and insular attitude due to its inherent barbarous sort of apathy it imposes.

I don't have much expectation that legalisation will suddenly eradicate black markets and criminal gangs. Legalisation may create more demand for drugs and also more demand for increasingly potent drugs which could be where black markets may step in.



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26 Sep 2021, 4:24 pm

Because they are mostly illegal and therefore, don't profit the government's agenda. People growing weed or selling used to be locked up, but these days, the government sells some and profit of it. The hypocrisy is staggering!



Sweetleaf
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27 Sep 2021, 3:52 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
You will likely hate my reply, but it is from my point of view on the topic at hand.

The answer is because it damages your body in some manner over time. I know the effects of drug molecules upon the human body. People can become addicted to certain drugs (yes, including alcohol and nicotine) to the point that they have to have them to be able to function. It becomes a problem, like it or not.

For example, let us look at marijuana. People say it cannot be bad because it is natural. Well, the forms being sold today are heavily modified strains that contain much more THC than the original plant ever had naturally. Consumption of high levels of THC over time modifies the human brain in scientific studies. It has been long suspected of causing cognitive damage long term upon chronic usage. These type of medical studies prove that by comparing brain scans of the same people over years of usage compared to those who do not use the drug (the control group). In the right concentration, it can be medically useful for certain conditions. I am not talking about those amounts in the above statement.

Look, I have no problem if someone wants to legally consume said drugs in their own dwelling away from me. However I become very displeased when others either try to force me to consume it with them (a hard NO!) or choose to smoke it around my living space. My father died of COPD from smoking cigarettes, along with most of his brothers. The predisposition for developing that condition occurs in my family, so I try to avoid smoke and smoking at all costs. Besides it really reeks to me personally (and I am a chemist that is used to very stinking substances).

Tobacco and marijuana both have toxic components in their smoke. It is not a contest to see which one is better, they are both bad to breathe into your lungs. For the record, I get just as displeased of tobacco smoke as marijuana smoke. My apartment has an area for smokers to use outside of the building. I turn in violators that smoke inside of the building, as it is against their lease agreements to be doing so. I have no problem with those that follow the rules.

Misusing even “harmless” drugs like aspirin can cause health damage. It is possible to overdose on almost any chemical substance and cause issues. Why would you openly chose to do so is beyond my comprehension.


Well that is nonsense, the idea that just because marijuana is natural that it is good that is for sure not what natural means. I mean I do use marijuana but also I do have a med card so I am using it for medicine. I got a med card for PTSD and I really feel it does help with that. But my boyfriend does not have a med card and he smokes sometimes, but he finds weed can give him anxiety sometimes so yeah he is not so much into smoking it. I just find it really helps me and seems to keep the PTSD at bay but my boyfriend finds weed is not always so relaxing. Regardless of how natural it is, he is more sensative to the negative effects it can have than I am. Like the other day I got some edibles from my brother and me and my boyfriend each had two but it was too much for my boyfriend while I was just fine and just ended up having to kinda take care of him while the high wore off. Like I kinda guided him back to the bed and gave him the weighted blanket we have so he could chill out under there. I mean for sure I ate two as well and was just fine but yeah he for sure felt he had too much. Idk kind of crazy to me because to be honest havin the same amount he did I didn't even really get that high..I just thought it was relaxing so I was understanding that he had got too high but I was still kind of suprised because he is so much bigger than me I didn't think the amount of edibles that just gets me really relaxed would make him too high. But yeah I have come to find I have way more tolerance to cannabis than he does, like come to think of it I guess it does take smoking quite a bit for me to actually get stoned vs the amount that just helps me through the day.

Still though at the end of the day, due to marijuanas low toxcicity it is probably still better people do that as a recreational drug than something like heroin. And ad far as I can tell marijuana is safer than alcohol, that said everyone knows lots of people smoke marijuana and drink at the same time...even I do.

And well what you say is why me and my boyfriend anymore only rent apartments where our door is not in an inside hallway. Because in separate apartments where the door goes directly outside, it is much easier to get away with smoking weed inside without bothering neighbors. Not a diss on it like idk if it is in the lease thing than I guess you have a right to complain..but yeah it is just easier for me and my boyfriend to just rent the type of apartments that don't go out into an inside hallway. Like even if say you lived in the apartment next door or below mine, you probably would not even know that I smoke weed.


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QuantumChemist
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27 Sep 2021, 9:54 am

I thought of another reason why consumption of drugs is considered bad: workplace safety. I teach at a large university and often have to deal with students that are high on drugs attending class. Well, in a chemical laboratory setting, that issue can lead to some serious safety violations. It is one thing if a student goes to a lecture class high (they will likely not retain the material), but quite another to be hands-on working with toxic chemicals while high on drugs.

It puts them and others at risk of injury that I am ultimately responsible for. I have had to have multiple students removed from my course because they came to lab under the influence of drugs. It is legally covered that I can do this in the laboratory safety agreement that they have to sign to start the course. Most of my students are pre-med majors, so yes, it is a big issue to be using drugs that way. Would you want to be treated by a medical professional who was mess up on drugs at the time of your treatment? Remember, it is your life that they are risking in the process.



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27 Sep 2021, 11:15 am



SMiLes, Some Drugs Get A Worse Rap Than
Others, Depending on How the Story of

Culture Presents Them; Like the

Old Meme of 'Reefer Madness'...

Yet It's True Screen Time on

Smart Phones is an

Incredible ' Behavioral Drug'

Now For Lowering or Raising

Almost Every Neurohormone

And Neurochemical We Have

Potential For Within; From Cat Pics

For A Warm Social Bonding Toasty Feeling of Oxytocin

Increasing as Receiving A Friendly Text does the Same...

By the Way, We Could Have A Real Cat and A Real FlesH and
Blood FRiEnD too...

And Therein

Lies and

Tells the Truth

of Both Drugs and

Online; They Present

Short Cuts away From The

Reality of Culture And What it Even

Means to Actually Survive and Thrive
As A Foraging Unit of One Holding Hands
Together, Until the Night Comes and Drum Beats
of Close to Naked Dances With the Whole Tribe in Trance...

Sure, Verily Bringing Autotelic
Flow through Bio-Feedback
Generating Joy From Within

For the Rest of the Day With

Or Without the Group; Yet With
The Group At Best to Get the Jobs
of Surviving and Thriving Done in Balancing Force of Real Success...


"Soma", Doesn't Provide The Struggles We Overcome Still to Come to
Generate Our Own Happiness Within; THere Are No Real Short-Cuts to True

Freedom

This Way...

i For one Can't
Imagine Actually Taking
Any External Substances

For NoW For Real As

i For One Can, Will, And Am
As Happy As i Care to Be All
Through the DarK And LiGHT
oF LiFE As i've Mastered 'THE Within'...

Just Exactly What Drugs May Take Away

As One May Never Learn the Freedom of DIY...
Yes, Do IT Yourself

With at Least

'A Little Help' From FRiEnDS...

Is This Possible in a Life, So Full
Of Innumerable Distractions; And
A Focus of Attention Of Less than
A Gold Fish; Yes, Less than 3 Seconds

As Assessed, Modernly For A Human Being, By Science;

YES, Just about as Possible as 'A Camel Entering the Eye of a Needle'...

Where the Only Respite Some Folks Find From THiS REAL INSANITY IS

Some Kind

of Quick
Fix in an
External Substance
Or Behavioral One

Producing

Basically

Similar

Neuro-Hormones
And Neuro-Chemicals...

Sadly, More Often Out of
Balance And Missing

The Ones That

Even Make

Us Human in the First

Place Like Killing Games

That Bond Over Killing Games...

And as Far As Laws Go For Restricting
Drug Use, This is why the Anchor of More
Conservative Nature is Just As Important to
Keep a Heterogeneous Large Society Together...

Anchors and Sails Are Required for Human Boats
To Survive Both in Rough Seas; Fair Winds, And Following
Seas; And When In Comes Necessary to Anchor in Safe Harbors

Not
to
Frigging
Sink the
Whole Fleet of
Ships; Like ACTUALLY
DEFUNDING THE POLICE

OR MAKING DRUGS ALL LEGAL
WITH NO REAL RESTRICTIONS

TO DO WHATEVER THE HELL AND HEAVEN FOLKS WANNA DO....

What's Really Amusing is The Most Antithetical Behavior As
That Relates to Conservative Versus Liberal is Not Protecting
Children Unvaccinated During A Most Deadly Period oF A Pandemic..

It's Not REALLY 'Amusing'...

It's Just Plain

Amusingly

iN DarK

MuSE

Sick and

Really Sad

When The So-Called Conservatives

Fail to EVEN DO THEIR JOB AS HUMANITY

TO SURVIVE; However, Those Who LiVE iN Scarcity;

Either In Meaning and Purpose of Life or Basic Socio-Economic
Scarcity, Are Ripe For All Of Their Human Nature to Be taken away

And Brain
Washed

AS SLAVES....

SucH iS the
Very ILL
Nature of
A Modern
Demagogue
And Minion
'Trump Matrix'...

i've Tried Caffeine

Before; it Shoots me
Across the Moon
And Beyond
The Stars,

So i Don't

Do it to

Remain on EartH...
Hehe Some Folks
MUST REGULATE
THEIR EMOTIONS
AND INTEGRATE THEIR

SENSES that's the Hard Part...

The Great ParT is NoW WiTH

ENOUGH PRACTICE WE DO JUST DO IT...

NoW iN Effortless
Non-KNoWinG
Autotelic
Flow of
Wu Wei
Tao

Chi

YeS iN

Ease for
'Those' Who Understand

How All Those Metaphors

Relate A Similar Essence

of Real Human Heaven Within;

Both Individually And By Group Effort

When Religion is More Than Saying Yes to TEXT...

And Truly More Mystical LoSinG Dualities MaKinG

'Two

Fingers'

(DarK Thru LiGHT) One.



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