Why NOT amputation for theft?

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04 Nov 2021, 8:49 am

EDIT: I got some really good answers to my question.
I now see I was wrong about this, and that barbaric punishments has no place in a civilized society.

Original post:

Quote:

I don't get why people here in the West oppose amputations for theft.
I'm not a muslim btw.

If you don't want your hands cut off, it's not rocket science to avoid that:
Don't steal. It's that simple. So why do people oppose amputations for theft, if it can prevent the crime?

Last edited by thinkinginpictures on 04 Nov 2021, 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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04 Nov 2021, 8:51 am

Because there's no reason to assume it actually deters crime
Because corporal punishment is utter barbarism and antithetical to our understanding of basic human rights.

Focusing on what motivates crime is a better approach than just dreaming up increasingly cruel punishments for those who transgress.

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thinkinginpictures
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04 Nov 2021, 8:54 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Saudi Arabia has a lower crime rate than any other country in the world.
So do Singapore, though they don't amputate hands, they still have harsh punishments like flogging.
The same can be said about Iran and China.

In other words: The countries with the most barbaric punishments has lower crime rates, usually.

Last edited by thinkinginpictures on 04 Nov 2021, 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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04 Nov 2021, 8:54 am

Does capital punishment deter murder?

Do unwanted pregnancies and STDs deter fornication?

Does lifetime registration as a sex offender deter rape?

Does death from covid deter the anti-vax crowd?

No, no, no, and no.

funeralxempire
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04 Nov 2021, 9:02 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

The problem with crime rates is that they only reflect how much criminal activity has been recorded.

Besides, if I'm worried you might squeal and I'll lose my arm as a result that's not an disincentive away from theft, that's a strong incentive towards eliminating witnesses.

Fnord
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04 Nov 2021, 9:12 am

funeralxempire wrote:

The problem with crime rates is that they only reflect how much criminal activity has been recorded.

Published crime rates are also influenced by how much the publishing governments are willing to report.

funeralxempire wrote:

Besides, if I'm worried you might squeal and I'll lose my arm as a result that's not an disincentive away from theft, that's a strong incentive towards eliminating witnesses.

The incentive to dispose of (e.g., "fence") the stolen goods right away is only slightly less strong.

kraftiekortie
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04 Nov 2021, 9:17 am

Why?

Because it's barbaric, uncivilized----that's why.

A practical reason: It would making an honest living subsequently difficult for the thief-amputee.

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04 Nov 2021, 9:19 am

Fnord wrote:

Published crime rates are also influenced by how much the publishing governments are willing to report.

Exactly. Iran also claims to have no homosexuals, so I'd take their official claims with at least a shaker's worth of salt.

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04 Nov 2021, 9:23 am

funeralxempire wrote:

... Iran also claims to have no homosexuals, so I'd take their official claims with at least a shaker's worth of salt.

Prostitution in North Korea is illegal and, according to the North Korean government, does not exist. However, the government is reported to employ approximately 2,000 women, known as the Kippumjo, to provide sexual services for high-ranking officials.

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04 Nov 2021, 9:30 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:

because its cruel and unusual punishment which is against the US Consitution.

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04 Nov 2021, 9:32 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:

So why do people oppose amputations for theft, if it can prevent the crime?

Because it doesn't. By definition. It only punishes the crime.

In my opinion, one of the biggest problems we have in society at the moment (and maybe it was always the case) is that 'common sense' is given a similar weighting, sometimes a higher weighting, than evidence-based research and analysis.

'Common sense' is regularly used to camouflage ignorance, prejudice and mal-intent. Common sense says that if you increase the punishment a crime attracts, then criminals will be less inclined to commit the crime. Study after study demonstrates this to be wrong. Common sense here, and in many, many other instances, is wrong.

One of the inherent problems with democratically elected leadership is that prospective leaders end up pandering to wrong-head common sense opinions held by the masses when better ideas exist.

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04 Nov 2021, 9:51 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

thinkinginpictures wrote:

because its cruel and unusual punishment which is against the US Consitution.

But frying people while fully conscious in the electric chair, is perfectly fine?

kraftiekortie
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04 Nov 2021, 9:52 am

There has to be some sort of "punishment" for crimes.

Otherwise, society will go pell-mell.

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04 Nov 2021, 9:52 am

The Electric Chair is a barbaric form of execution----and is not commonly used these days.

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04 Nov 2021, 9:58 am

DuckHairback wrote:

thinkinginpictures wrote:

So why do people oppose amputations for theft, if it can prevent the crime?

True, but only to a certain degree.

If punishments are severe enough, crime rates starts to drop. As it is seen in Saudi Arabia.

There's no reason why we can't prevent crime by other means as well.
Severe punishments does not exclude alternative methods.

I'm also for psychiatric treatment of kleptomania instead of amputation, if the individual has been found to suffer from this. There's generally no need to use barbaric punishments nor prison sentences for people who commit a crime because they're suffering from a mental illness which makes them more prone to crime. They need treatment instead. I'm for that.

But there are also psychopaths who have no sense of ethics or morality at all. I can't see why we should treat them by humane methods.

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04 Nov 2021, 10:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

The Electric Chair is a barbaric form of execution----and is not commonly used these days.

But it is still allowed, and was used less than a year ago.

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