Page 1 of 4 [ 52 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,537
Location: In a square sphere of abstract, nuanced thought.

10 Dec 2021, 5:11 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/06/middle-class-drug-users-could-lose-uk-passports-under-boris-johnsons-plans

People think authoritarianism is going to to benefit them. It doesn't benefit anyone - because you are never in charge, someone else is. Once authoritarians gain control, they will dispose of their minions and any freedom their minions have along with it.

Yes, that includes your welfare if they should so choose. Don't agree with something politically? If the government has the power to do so, they will simply cap your benefits. You then are at risk of ending up face down in a supermarket, starving, with rows of empty shelves next to you, if you don't strictly conform.

Having a good time with street drugs is also not a thing any more.


_________________
Cultural Conservative, Economic Socialist.
Christian (LGBTQ+ affirming).
Abstract & critical thinker. 2nd wave feminist.
All humans are equal before God.
Freedom, is the sovereign right, of America.
On vacation


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,013
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

10 Dec 2021, 4:35 pm

Democracy may not be perfect, but it's still the best deal going.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 85,125
Location: Queens, NYC

10 Dec 2021, 4:41 pm

A helluva better than a police state---that's for sure!

The US is far from being a police state.



blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,537
Location: In a square sphere of abstract, nuanced thought.

10 Dec 2021, 4:49 pm

I am a democratic-socialist myself. But I do believe people should have maximal freedoms balanced against that system.


_________________
Cultural Conservative, Economic Socialist.
Christian (LGBTQ+ affirming).
Abstract & critical thinker. 2nd wave feminist.
All humans are equal before God.
Freedom, is the sovereign right, of America.
On vacation


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,284

10 Dec 2021, 8:48 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
People think authoritarianism is going to to benefit them. It doesn't benefit anyone - because you are never in charge, someone else is. Once authoritarians gain control, they will dispose of their minions and any freedom their minions have along with it..


If you are talking about the western world then authoritarianism as a phase never results in better quality of life for the majority of the population. Democratic principles have always been championed in some way of form throughout western history. This probably stems from the warrior roots of Indo-European tribes where conflict was resolved through representative ballots from village elders casting stones in a bag. When Europeans stated imperial kingdoms from Greek and Roman times up until Germany in WWII democracy eventually won out in the end as people become fed up with dictators and rise up. Populism and the rise of cult of personality has made a comeback in Europe and American but its not sustainable.



blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,537
Location: In a square sphere of abstract, nuanced thought.

11 Dec 2021, 3:12 am

cyberdad wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
People think authoritarianism is going to to benefit them. It doesn't benefit anyone - because you are never in charge, someone else is. Once authoritarians gain control, they will dispose of their minions and any freedom their minions have along with it..


If you are talking about the western world then authoritarianism as a phase never results in better quality of life for the majority of the population. Democratic principles have always been championed in some way of form throughout western history. This probably stems from the warrior roots of Indo-European tribes where conflict was resolved through representative ballots from village elders casting stones in a bag. When Europeans stated imperial kingdoms from Greek and Roman times up until Germany in WWII democracy eventually won out in the end as people become fed up with dictators and rise up. Populism and the rise of cult of personality has made a comeback in Europe and American but its not sustainable.


The only thing about populism I like is that it counterbalances radical leftism.

But yes, cults of personality like Trump are extremely unhealthy & dangerous.

I just see the far left and far right as mirrors of each other really, reflecting each others shortcomings.

I am left-centre politically (within a UK context) & I consider myself an unusual blend of different values.

In the United Kingdom, 'Old Labour' used to be about traditionalism plus socialism and then 'New Labour' circa 1997 with Tony Blair, sold out to capitalism, basically, and became 'Tory lites'.

I supported and still support Brexit, as I see the EU as serving corporations mostly and capitalism, contrary to what some leftists seems to believe about it.

My dream is for a Labour-charged national socialism in the UK, with limited immigration and to support fully - minority rights & accomodations, whilst at the same time promoting general Christianity. A lot of Christians now are fully integrated into minority-supporting mindsets.

I don't support open borders, not because I am racist - but because it is unsustainable economically within current, real-world systems (I am aware this can be achieved abstractly in terms of pure political philosophy). But you can't just erase everything and start over to undo everything that exists already, to achieve a 'pure' political philosophy. Unless there is to be carnage and mass death?

'Lexit' was a thing in the UK & Jeremy Corbyn was ambivalent on Brexit on a personal level, but the dominating majority of wokeists in the Labour party forced his hand to publicly be in favour of the EU. But he wasn't convincing enough, which is why he lost so many votes and the 'red walls' in northern England got crushed.

You can imagine my horror when I heard that towns next to me were voting Conservative who hadn't done so in decades.

I have voted Labour in the past two elections, because I never have & never will vote Conservative. They are disgusting.


_________________
Cultural Conservative, Economic Socialist.
Christian (LGBTQ+ affirming).
Abstract & critical thinker. 2nd wave feminist.
All humans are equal before God.
Freedom, is the sovereign right, of America.
On vacation


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,284

11 Dec 2021, 4:35 am

I agree with most of your sentiment, I'm also not a champion of the far-left (although I get regularly smeared with that label on this forum). But I would never vote conservative unless perhaps somebody put a gun to my head.

One thing to note is the far left is no longer a threat. It's a silly phase some college students majoring in the arts go through to flirt with socialism, Most of us who associate ourselves with the progressive left have in common some level of alliance or connection with social justice issues.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 33,543
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

11 Dec 2021, 4:46 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
A helluva better than a police state---that's for sure!

The US is far from being a police state.


I am just not sure if it is being far from that, for sure you are more optimistic than I am.


_________________
We won't go back.


blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,537
Location: In a square sphere of abstract, nuanced thought.

11 Dec 2021, 5:37 am

cyberdad wrote:
I agree with most of your sentiment, I'm also not a champion of the far-left (although I get regularly smeared with that label on this forum). But I would never vote conservative unless perhaps somebody put a gun to my head.

One thing to note is the far left is no longer a threat. It's a silly phase some college students majoring in the arts go through to flirt with socialism, Most of us who associate ourselves with the progressive left have in common some level of alliance or connection with social justice issues.


Yeah, it seems silly. Like, okay, people are mad at injustices, but when people start tearing stuff up in public, other people view them as the bad guys and that perception eats them basically, until there's nothing remaining.


_________________
Cultural Conservative, Economic Socialist.
Christian (LGBTQ+ affirming).
Abstract & critical thinker. 2nd wave feminist.
All humans are equal before God.
Freedom, is the sovereign right, of America.
On vacation


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 33,543
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

11 Dec 2021, 6:09 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I agree with most of your sentiment, I'm also not a champion of the far-left (although I get regularly smeared with that label on this forum). But I would never vote conservative unless perhaps somebody put a gun to my head.

One thing to note is the far left is no longer a threat. It's a silly phase some college students majoring in the arts go through to flirt with socialism, Most of us who associate ourselves with the progressive left have in common some level of alliance or connection with social justice issues.


Yeah, it seems silly. Like, okay, people are mad at injustices, but when people start tearing stuff up in public, other people view them as the bad guys and that perception eats them basically, until there's nothing remaining.


Also, if the authorities don't want riots, maybe they should stop murdering people. I am sick of hearing cop inappropriately kills or harms someone and their worst penalty is paid leave. If any regular person did things like that they would be charged with attempted murder or manslaughter...but if it's a cop I guess the worst they get for murder or assault is paid leave.


_________________
We won't go back.


blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,537
Location: In a square sphere of abstract, nuanced thought.

11 Dec 2021, 7:33 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I agree with most of your sentiment, I'm also not a champion of the far-left (although I get regularly smeared with that label on this forum). But I would never vote conservative unless perhaps somebody put a gun to my head.

One thing to note is the far left is no longer a threat. It's a silly phase some college students majoring in the arts go through to flirt with socialism, Most of us who associate ourselves with the progressive left have in common some level of alliance or connection with social justice issues.


Yeah, it seems silly. Like, okay, people are mad at injustices, but when people start tearing stuff up in public, other people view them as the bad guys and that perception eats them basically, until there's nothing remaining.


Also, if the authorities don't want riots, maybe they should stop murdering people. I am sick of hearing cop inappropriately kills or harms someone and their worst penalty is paid leave. If any regular person did things like that they would be charged with attempted murder or manslaughter...but if it's a cop I guess the worst they get for murder or assault is paid leave.


The answer to institutional corruption is to meet it with institutional change that is achieved through contacting local political representatives. Writing letters, handling out leaflets, campaigning on social media, attending peaceful protests etc.

Violence solves nothing and in fact just creates more problems.

Violence is only acceptable during self-defense in my world.


_________________
Cultural Conservative, Economic Socialist.
Christian (LGBTQ+ affirming).
Abstract & critical thinker. 2nd wave feminist.
All humans are equal before God.
Freedom, is the sovereign right, of America.
On vacation


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 37
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 17,924
Location: I'm right here

11 Dec 2021, 8:24 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
Violence solves nothing and in fact just creates more problems.

Violence is only acceptable during self-defense in my world.


Violence is a consequence of a broken society, if we don't want violence after police murder people and skate we need to hold members of the gold badge gang to the same standards as everyone else and charge them, then convict them when they've committed murder.


_________________
You can't buy happiness; steal it.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 85,125
Location: Queens, NYC

11 Dec 2021, 8:52 am

If you have police checkpoints every 100 miles on the highway, you would be in a police state.

There are places in the world which have the above.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 85,125
Location: Queens, NYC

11 Dec 2021, 8:56 am

Violence can be a consequence of a broken society.

It can also be the result of somebody being a drunk idiot, then adopting some ideology as an excuse.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 37
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 17,924
Location: I'm right here

11 Dec 2021, 9:19 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It can also be the result of somebody being a drunk idiot, then adopting some ideology as an excuse.


Violence of that sort isn't really relevant to the topic though.


_________________
You can't buy happiness; steal it.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


blitzkrieg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2011
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,537
Location: In a square sphere of abstract, nuanced thought.

11 Dec 2021, 9:32 am

funeralxempire wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Violence solves nothing and in fact just creates more problems.

Violence is only acceptable during self-defense in my world.


Violence is a consequence of a broken society, if we don't want violence after police murder people and skate we need to hold members of the gold badge gang to the same standards as everyone else and charge them, then convict them when they've committed murder.


I don't agree. Meeting violence with violence just makes the people trying to make a difference for a greater good, look as bad as those who are institutionally involved in oppression and then they don't gain any importance because they look like thugs themselves.

Peaceful means of change are crucial.


_________________
Cultural Conservative, Economic Socialist.
Christian (LGBTQ+ affirming).
Abstract & critical thinker. 2nd wave feminist.
All humans are equal before God.
Freedom, is the sovereign right, of America.
On vacation