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Aspinator
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04 Dec 2021, 12:11 pm

I personally feel this points out the main difference between republicans and democrats. It seems that republicans are conceited enough to feel they know what is best for everybody. I feel democrats have more of a "live and let live" philosophy. An ordinary person should not pretend they know how a woman in Walla-Walla WA (I picked a city at random) should live her life. If that issue comes up it should be up to the woman, her husband/boyfriend and her doctor; not some politician



Tim_Tex
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04 Dec 2021, 12:22 pm

Aspinator wrote:
I personally feel this points out the main difference between republicans and democrats. It seems that republicans are conceited enough to feel they know what is best for everybody. I feel democrats have more of a "live and let live" philosophy. An ordinary person should not pretend they know how a woman in Walla-Walla WA (I picked a city at random) should live her life. If that issue comes up it should be up to the woman, her husband/boyfriend and her doctor; not some politician


Not even the boyfriend/husband.


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Descartes
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04 Dec 2021, 4:35 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Descartes wrote:
Why do you think leaving the issue to the states is better in the long run?


It's been festering for close to 50 years now because the Supreme Court swooped in and invented a right that wasn't actually in the Constitution, when it should have been a narrow ruling and been allowed to play out in state law. It's been legally precarious all these years because of the tenuous law it was based on, and so if Roe falls and the states are allowed to do what they want, Federalism will be allowed to work, people may move based on it, and if enough people think it's important enough, we might someday get an actual amendment properly protecting abortion, or not, but it's not going to be the quick fix bandaid on a bullet hole that Roe was.


There are quite a few states that will never legalize abortion, though. What should people in those states do, then? Simply driving across state lines to access abortion care is not a possibility for a lot of people.

I'm not a lawyer or constitutional expert, but if I recall correctly, there is a due process clause in the 14th amendment that is understood to protect people's privacy, which includes the decision to have an abortion, access contraceptives, have consensual sex with another adult, etc. If Roe falls, I'm concerned that all those other rights I've mentioned will be next on the chopping block.


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babybird
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05 Dec 2021, 11:34 am

Descartes wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has already made a thread about this.

The U.S. Supreme Court had a hearing a couple days ago on Roe v. Wade, the landmark 1973 case that legalized abortion nationwide. Given the court's conservative tilt, there's a very real possibility that they will overturn Roe and leave the issue of abortion back up to the states, which would end legal abortion in up to half of the states.

I read a few legal analyses on the hearing. Justice Coney Barrett asked what the implications for other landmark cases such as the marriage equality and contraceptives ones would be if Roe were overturned. Justice Kavanaugh likened Roe to Plessy v. Ferguson, the case that established racial segregation and the "separate but equal" doctrine.

I am very concerned and disheartened that half of the population could lose their basic human rights to bodily autonomy by next summer. I am furthermore concerned, as a member of the LGBT community, that overturning Roe could put other civil rights cases such as the ones that legalized marriage equality and struck down sodomy laws in jeopardy. I know the left has been very doom and gloom since the hearings, but I wouldn't mind hearing something at least slightly optimistic, if at all possible.


I was watching this on the news this morning. It's a worrying time for women. One woman was saying that a lot of women will put themselves in danger because of this and turn to less legitimate ways to have abortions such as using coat hangers etc.

I really hope this legislation doesn't go through. It's a step backwards.



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05 Dec 2021, 12:20 pm

The fact that MEN are deciding what women can and cannot do with their own bodies reveals the fact that many men still believe that women have no rights of their own.



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05 Dec 2021, 12:29 pm

It gets me when these people play on the emotions of people by calling a blastocyst an unborn child and then say that abortion is the murder of unborn children.

No its not you crazy f**ktards!



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05 Dec 2021, 1:18 pm

babybird wrote:
Descartes wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has already made a thread about this.

The U.S. Supreme Court had a hearing a couple days ago on Roe v. Wade, the landmark 1973 case that legalized abortion nationwide. Given the court's conservative tilt, there's a very real possibility that they will overturn Roe and leave the issue of abortion back up to the states, which would end legal abortion in up to half of the states.

I read a few legal analyses on the hearing. Justice Coney Barrett asked what the implications for other landmark cases such as the marriage equality and contraceptives ones would be if Roe were overturned. Justice Kavanaugh likened Roe to Plessy v. Ferguson, the case that established racial segregation and the "separate but equal" doctrine.

I am very concerned and disheartened that half of the population could lose their basic human rights to bodily autonomy by next summer. I am furthermore concerned, as a member of the LGBT community, that overturning Roe could put other civil rights cases such as the ones that legalized marriage equality and struck down sodomy laws in jeopardy. I know the left has been very doom and gloom since the hearings, but I wouldn't mind hearing something at least slightly optimistic, if at all possible.


I was watching this on the news this morning. It's a worrying time for women. One woman was saying that a lot of women will put themselves in danger because of this and turn to less legitimate ways to have abortions such as using coat hangers etc.

I really hope this legislation doesn't go through. It's a step backwards.


That is what the evangelical cult wants, they have an aversion to progress.


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Tim_Tex
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05 Dec 2021, 1:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
The fact that MEN are deciding what women can and cannot do with their own bodies reveals the fact that many men still believe that women have no rights of their own.


For me, it isn’t so much that I don’t want men to have opinions on it, it that I want to silence any opposing views on abortion.


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auntblabby
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05 Dec 2021, 2:13 pm

Descartes wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Descartes wrote:
Why do you think leaving the issue to the states is better in the long run?


It's been festering for close to 50 years now because the Supreme Court swooped in and invented a right that wasn't actually in the Constitution, when it should have been a narrow ruling and been allowed to play out in state law. It's been legally precarious all these years because of the tenuous law it was based on, and so if Roe falls and the states are allowed to do what they want, Federalism will be allowed to work, people may move based on it, and if enough people think it's important enough, we might someday get an actual amendment properly protecting abortion, or not, but it's not going to be the quick fix bandaid on a bullet hole that Roe was.


There are quite a few states that will never legalize abortion, though. What should people in those states do, then? Simply driving across state lines to access abortion care is not a possibility for a lot of people.

I'm not a lawyer or constitutional expert, but if I recall correctly, there is a due process clause in the 14th amendment that is understood to protect people's privacy, which includes the decision to have an abortion, access contraceptives, have consensual sex with another adult, etc. If Roe falls, I'm concerned that all those other rights I've mentioned will be next on the chopping block.

i've heard worrisome things about how they are setting their sights on griswold vs. Connecticut next, and perhaps the 14th and 15th amendments as well.



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05 Dec 2021, 2:50 pm

Bear in mind that overturning Roe doesn’t mean all abortions everywhere will be denied. That’s just stupid. It just means that nobody has a CONSTITUTIONAL right to murder babies. If, say, Mississippi voters don’t want abortion, they don’t have to have abortion. If Arkansas wants it and Mississippi doesn’t, and if a woman from Mississippi wants to kill her baby, all she has to do is go to Arkansas.

I don’t see anyone successfully depriving women in New York and California of their right to infanticide. Overturning Roe does not end abortion, and this is ultimately a nothing burger.

If you want a universal right to baby killing, then pass a federal bill or call a constitutional convention. Let people or their duly elected representatives vote on it. Then there can’t be any disagreement—it’s the will of the people. The Roe decision imposed something on the American people that most did not want or agree to. This has already happened in Europe, hence why nobody argues about it there.

I hope Roe does get overturned. However, given how SCOTUS has mostly consistently upheld precedence with a few exceptions, I don’t think Roe is getting overturned in this case or in any case in the foreseeable future. I’d count it a miracle if it did. Leftist baby-killers are worried over nothing.



babybird
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05 Dec 2021, 3:02 pm

Who's killing babies?



Tim_Tex
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05 Dec 2021, 3:08 pm

babybird wrote:
Who's killing babies?


Nobody. The thing is that American conservatives like telling people no


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babybird
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05 Dec 2021, 3:19 pm

Well if they're anything like the UK Conservatives then they'll enjoy enforcing the rules whilst taking pleasure breaking the rules themselves.



auntblabby
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05 Dec 2021, 3:28 pm

the right wing moneybags have always had abortion available to their tony selves. they just don't want it for anybody beneath them.



babybird
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05 Dec 2021, 3:30 pm

auntblabby wrote:
the right wing moneybags have always had abortion available to their tony selves. they just don't want it for anybody beneath them.


I can believe that as well. Otherwise there would be bastards being born oll over the place.



Descartes
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05 Dec 2021, 5:02 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Bear in mind that overturning Roe doesn’t mean all abortions everywhere will be denied. That’s just stupid. It just means that nobody has a CONSTITUTIONAL right to murder babies. If, say, Mississippi voters don’t want abortion, they don’t have to have abortion. If Arkansas wants it and Mississippi doesn’t, and if a woman from Mississippi wants to kill her baby, all she has to do is go to Arkansas.

I don’t see anyone successfully depriving women in New York and California of their right to infanticide. Overturning Roe does not end abortion, and this is ultimately a nothing burger.

If you want a universal right to baby killing, then pass a federal bill or call a constitutional convention. Let people or their duly elected representatives vote on it. Then there can’t be any disagreement—it’s the will of the people. The Roe decision imposed something on the American people that most did not want or agree to. This has already happened in Europe, hence why nobody argues about it there.

I hope Roe does get overturned. However, given how SCOTUS has mostly consistently upheld precedence with a few exceptions, I don’t think Roe is getting overturned in this case or in any case in the foreseeable future. I’d count it a miracle if it did. Leftist baby-killers are worried over nothing.


Who's imposing abortion on anybody? If you don't like the idea of abortion, then don't have one. It's the right-wing evangelical crowd that's trying to impose their will on people by taking that option away.


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