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Dox47
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12 Feb 2022, 3:29 am

Joe90 wrote:
I thought cancel culture meant things like demolishing gender or stuff like that.


That ideology might frequently ride along with it, but cancel culture refers to the practice of trying to get people fired and/or exiled from polite society for saying the wrong thing or having the wrong opinion, that's what differentiates it from mere criticism, the punitive impulse that creates a chilling effect on others who might now be afraid to express their opinions.


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ASPartOfMe
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12 Feb 2022, 8:44 am

Joe90 wrote:
Posting in this dangerous part of WP because the other sections have gone dead...

thinkinginpictures wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
So when people develop disdain for an artist based on their behaviour or opinions are they not allowed to lose interest in that person's art as a result? :scratch:


You may dislike as much art as you like, provided it's the art itself you dislike.
Disliking art based on who made it, makes you a loser though.

I hate nazis. I wish Hitler is burning up in hell for all eternity.
But I have no reason to dislike his art.


You mean like a lot of people disliking songs sung by Rolf Harris or Gary Glitter just because of the perverted things they did? I hate paedophilia and all that but what they did still doesn't make me hate their music.

I thought cancel culture meant things like demolishing gender or stuff like that.

Cancelling Gary Glitter would mean radio stations not playing him, making his music unavailable for sale and download.


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ASPartOfMe
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12 Feb 2022, 8:56 am

cyberdad wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Posting in this dangerous part of WP because the other sections have gone dead...

thinkinginpictures wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
So when people develop disdain for an artist based on their behaviour or opinions are they not allowed to lose interest in that person's art as a result? :scratch:


You may dislike as much art as you like, provided it's the art itself you dislike.
Disliking art based on who made it, makes you a loser though.

I hate nazis. I wish Hitler is burning up in hell for all eternity.
But I have no reason to dislike his art.


You mean like a lot of people disliking songs sung by Rolf Harris or Gary Glitter just because of the perverted things they did? I hate paedophilia and all that but what they did still doesn't make me hate their music.

I thought cancel culture meant things like demolishing gender or stuff like that.


Michael Jackson is still very popular.

To popular to cancel?


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ASPartOfMe
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12 Feb 2022, 9:23 am

Petition demands Netflix nix comedy special containing Holocaust joke

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Over 16,000 people have signed a petition for British comedian Jimmy Carr's Netflix special to be removed after he joked that the killing of Gypsy people during the Holocaust was a "positive."

In "Jimmy Carr: His Dark Materials," which was released on Christmas Day, the comedian discussed Roma and Gypsy communities that were murdered during the Holocaust in a clip circulated on social media.

In the clip, he said, "When people talk about the Holocaust, they talk about the tragedy and horror of six million Jewish lives being lost to the Nazi war machine.

"But, they never mention the thousands of Gypsies that were killed by the Nazis. No one ever talks about that because no one wants to talk... about the positives."

Carr issued a "trigger warning" to the audience at the beginning of his Netflix special and told viewers it contained "terrible things."

The petition stated: "In Netflix comedy special 'His Dark Material,' Jimmy Carr 'jokes' that the Romani and Sinti genocide is ignored when people discuss the Holocaust because people don't want to 'focus on the positives.' This is nothing short of a celebration of genocide.

"We appreciate that comedy is subjective but in our view when punchlines are indistinguishable from the genuinely-held views of fascists and Neo-Nazis, a line has very clearly been crossed.

"We acknowledge that Jimmy Carr highlighted the widespread ignorance that exists with regard to non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust, but it was nevertheless incredibly crass for him to claim his 'joke' therefore had an 'educational quality.'

It is estimated between 200,000 and 500,000 Roma and Sinti people were murdered by the Nazis during the Holocaust.

Even Downing Street has weighed in on the controversy, with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson's spokesperson saying on Tuesday that Carr's "comments are deeply disturbing and it's unacceptable to make light of genocide."

The government is "toughening measures for social media and streaming platforms who don't tackle harmful content," he added.

Asked whether Netflix should pull the show, the spokesman said: "That will be a matter for them. We are clear that mocking the atrocities of the Holocaust is unacceptable."

For his part, Carr, 49, responded to the controversy surrounding the viral joke, saying that he would "going down swinging," Sky News reported.

Over the weekend, the comedian reportedly responded to the controversy at a gig in Whitely Bay in Tyne and Wear when a fan heckled: "Are we going to talk about the Holocaust?"

According to the Mirror, Carr responded: "We are going to talk about cancel culture, the whole thing. We are speaking, my friends, in the last chance saloon. What I am saying on stage this evening is barely acceptable now. In 10 years, f****** forget about it.

"I am going to get canceled, that's the bad news. The good news is I am going down swinging. The joke that ends my career is already out there. It's on YouTube, Netflix, or whatever, and it's fine until one day it f****** isn't."

The comedian reportedly added: "You are going to be able to tell your grandchildren about seeing this show tonight. You will say I saw a man and he stood on a stage and he made light of serious issues. We used to call them jokes and people would laugh."

He then went on to claim that his ability to tell inappropriate jokes is the result of a "rare psychological disorder."

The joke also prompted criticism from his fellow comedians, such as David Baddiel, who noted he was a close friend of Carr's.

The Traveller Movement, a charity supporting the traveler community in the UK, also launched a petition calling for Netflix to remove the segment of the program "which celebrates the Romani genocide." It said the joke in question was "truly disturbing and goes way beyond humor."


Jimmy Carr joked about the deaths of six million Jews in the Holocaust in bestselling memoir that was published months BEFORE he made 'disturbing' joke about murder of gypsies - as comedian is pictured for first time since row broke out
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Jimmy Carr is facing further criticism after it emerged that he joked about the deaths of six millions Jews in the Holocaust.

It has now emerged that months before his Netflix show was broadcast, Carr, 49, insisted in his bestselling book that, as 'an act of defiance', it was acceptable to laugh at the mass murder perpetrated by the Nazis.

He wrote in Before & Laughter, which was released in September last year: 'People will laugh in the most stressful and hopeless situations.

'During the Holocaust, prisoners held in concentration camps found ways to secretly tell jokes and share stories.

'And they laughed. Laughing gave them some control and reminded them of their humanity. It helped them cope.'

Later in the book, he referenced the 1997 Oscar-winning film Life is Beautiful, which is about an Italian father and son who are sent to a Nazi concentration camp.

Carr said: 'How could they make a Holocaust movie that was funny? Well, because that s*** happened. And I think it's okay to joke about the Holocaust.'

He added: 'They say there's safety in numbers. Tell that to six million Jews.'

Olivia Marks-Woldman, chief executive of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust, told the Evening Standard in response to the words in the book that the comedian's jokes 'dehumanise people'.

'Jimmy Carr is right that people in the Holocaust concentration camps tried to assert their humanity in a variety of ways, in the face of propaganda and policies that deliberately sought to dehumanise them,' she said.

'But Carr's "jokes" certainly do not humanise, nor are they funny or joyful, as he has claimed. They dehumanise people and perpetuate prejudice.'

Protesters outside the Grove Theatre on Tuesday delayed Carr's show by nearly an hour after campaigners demanded that venues hosting the comic on his Terribly Funny Tour de-platform him.


Off Topic
Holocaust jokes have their place but require empathy
Quote:
At a time when mainstream politicians across the world are openly lobbing racist grenades into the debating chambers of cable news and social media, why do famous comedians still tell Holocaust jokes and can this subject ever morally be the target for comedy? Sometimes yes, mostly no.
Coming from a Jewish refugee family (my mother is a Holocaust survivor and many other family members were murdered), I am naturally acutely sensitive to jokes made about this subject. My family is divided on the question of Holocaust humour. In my work as the founder of Holocaust Awareness Ireland, I occasionally use humour myself. It helps to break the tension with the audience. Without it, the pitch-black intensity of the Holocaust can make the facts hard to absorb, leaving the audience numb.

But jokes about the Holocaust are among the hardest for any comedian to pull off. Except for neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers you are likely to offend everyone else in the audience. Gratuitous, indescribable cruelty inflicted on millions of civilians and the murder of six million Jews, half a million Roma and Sinti, and tens of thousands of homosexuals, the disabled and political prisoners is not an obvious subject for comedy. Especially as it’s still in living memory.

Holocaust comedy is a high-wire act given the golden rule of comedy: it has to be funny. Empathy is the key. Jokes at the expense of those who cannot defend themselves only really work when the observation exposes our own vulnerabilities.

Every so often, the question raises its head as another comedian uses the Holocaust to get a laugh. Failure will bring opprobrium and censure, as well as a blaze of publicity; the latter perhaps never wholly unwelcome.

Carr has shown no empathy for the victims, whose only crime was to be singled out for their ethnicity, just like the Jews. By degrading them today, he questions their right to mourn their unimaginable loss. Humiliating Holocaust victims and their families is an especially despicable act with consequences for them that are more complex than Carr foresees.

If Carr is interested in how to tackle the Holocaust as a stand-up comedian, he should turn to Ricky Gervais. In a double episode of Jerry Seinfeld’s series of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee in 2019, Gervais tells two Holocaust jokes. The first is a version of a well-worn gag where a Holocaust survivor goes to God and tells him a Holocaust joke. God replies that it isn’t funny whereupon the Holocaust survivor counters, “You’d have to have been there.”

The second joke has the commandant of Auschwitz allowing a group of Jewish prisoners their freedom for Christmas. As they are filing out the last one says to his captor, “But we don’t celebrate Christmas.”

Gervais’ comedic instincts around the Holocaust are humane. His first joke is sophisticated and works at many levels, especially as Gervais is well known as an atheist. His second turns the butt of the joke into a hero; someone not prepared to accept freedom at any cost, especially if the price is giving up that part of him that led to his incarceration.

Both jokes show great sympathy for the survivors. They also work by depicting the absurdity of the Holocaust.

Absurdity and farce were the devices used by Mel Brooks in his classic 1967 film The Producers with Zero Mostel and Gene Wilder, and later in 1983 with To Be or Not to Be in which he starred next to his wife, Anne Bancroft. Interestingly, Chaplin’s masterful parody of the Nazi regime,The Great Dictator, came out in 1940 before the Holocaust had fully swung into operation.

The Holocaust is the Everest of comedy topics. It needs years of training to conquer. I am prepared to be made to feel deeply uncomfortable if the joke is clever, tender and empathetic. Most of all, if I can laugh at this inherited trauma, it might mean that it is possible to live a just life in a world where the Holocaust made justice an impossibility for its victims.


For further insight into this subject I suggest you rent the documentary “The Last Laugh” in which Jewish comedians and a holocaust survivor weigh in on this topic.


As for Carr I do not know anything about his comedy for full context. What I see is not a of motive to raise awareness of non Jewish holocaust victims nor that he really believes that the mass murder of Roma and Gypsies are a positive. He used their murder to make the point that cancel culture sucks. Very despicable.

if one is against cancel culture one should not make exceptions sans such speech causing a threat of imminent violence which is not the case here. A little bit of censorship while tempting in cases like this is still censorship one should oppose.


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Fixxer
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12 Feb 2022, 12:04 pm

Cancel culture is when you can't accept defeat and then, convince other people that one specific person is a bad and to get him under the bus. Shameful, but very common. The cancelling usually starts with the "leaders" descrediting outside sources and having someone else take the blame, pointing fingers in other words. The most toxic online behavior is cancelling someone.



cyberdad
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13 Feb 2022, 12:37 am

The holocaust still remains a highly transgenerational traumatic event for European jews. Although the original survivors have passed on their children and grandchildren carry the horror of what that generation went through. This type of transference is also found in the descendants of the trans-atlantic slave trade and indigenous people in the US, Canada and here in Australia,

I am a little amazed that people on the spectrum can't empathise with people in these groups when they are triggered by jokes on the holocaust?

I am, however, not in favor of comedians watching what they say. It ruins their art form/craft. I think if a comedian has a reputation for being a little insensitive then their netflix special should come with a trigger warning to the particular groups targeted so that people who have an affinity to those groups (e,g, Trans people who feel like watching Dave Chappelle) have forewarning to not watch it.