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shlaifu
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09 Jan 2022, 10:14 pm

ironpony wrote:
It seems that in the last few years people just can't agree to disagree with each other anymore like they use to be able to. The thought of disagreeing is just a horrible horrible thing to people nowadays. But what happened, and why did so many people have to become p%$#sies all at the same time a few years ago?

I asked my friends about what did this, and the only answers they could come up with were Trump and the Metoo movement. But it seems like those two things are not enough to do that, and they wouldn't affect the entire world, unless they would?


no, it didn't. The financial crisis of 2009 did, and it took down it the whole narrative of things always getting better with globalized capitalism. Before 2009, if you said capitalism ain't working, people just answered how great it was and how it's lifting billions out of poverty. Now no sensible person can say this without admitting it's been a bit rocky lately.

With that story now contested among ordinary citizens and not just intellectuals, and climate change becoming noticeable, politicians who stick to this story are making themselves untrustworthy. Now there's a fight about whose story is the right one to look at the world with - and some of these stories of how to interpret the world are completely random, and some do contain some truth. Anyone can try and tell a new story and will find someone who'll believe it.
If Trump hadn't been on to *something*, he wouldn't have gotten elected in the first place. That doesn't mean he was right about even most things, yet he touched a nerve - but he diverted the anger away from wall street onto "fellow americans" and political opponents.


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09 Jan 2022, 11:17 pm

shlaifu wrote:
ironpony wrote:
It seems that in the last few years people just can't agree to disagree with each other anymore like they use to be able to. The thought of disagreeing is just a horrible horrible thing to people nowadays. But what happened, and why did so many people have to become p%$#sies all at the same time a few years ago?

I asked my friends about what did this, and the only answers they could come up with were Trump and the Metoo movement. But it seems like those two things are not enough to do that, and they wouldn't affect the entire world, unless they would?


no, it didn't. The financial crisis of 2009 did, and it took down it the whole narrative of things always getting better with globalized capitalism. Before 2009, if you said capitalism ain't working, people just answered how great it was and how it's lifting billions out of poverty. Now no sensible person can say this without admitting it's been a bit rocky lately.

With that story now contested among ordinary citizens and not just intellectuals, and climate change becoming noticeable, politicians who stick to this story are making themselves untrustworthy. Now there's a fight about whose story is the right one to look at the world with - and some of these stories of how to interpret the world are completely random, and some do contain some truth. Anyone can try and tell a new story and will find someone who'll believe it.
If Trump hadn't been on to *something*, he wouldn't have gotten elected in the first place. That doesn't mean he was right about even most things, yet he touched a nerve - but he diverted the anger away from wall street onto "fellow americans" and political opponents.


Oh okay, but all of these points that people are arguing over, such as racism, sexism, and genderism, don't have anything to do with a financial crisis do they? So if a financial crisis caused this then why are people obsessed and arguing over those other issues.

What you mean mean by 'fellow Americans', exactly?



NoClearMind53
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10 Jan 2022, 1:47 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but all of these points that people are arguing over, such as racism, sexism, and genderism, don't have anything to do with a financial crisis do they? So if a financial crisis caused this then why are people obsessed and arguing over those other issues.

What you mean mean by 'fellow Americans', exactly?

Financial crisis caused material insecurity. People find comfort in tribalism when they feel insecure. Tribal strife becomes more and more amplified in situations of insecurity. Different groups all feel like they are scrapping for a shrinking slice of pie. There's also increasing suspicion and distrust. Conspiracy theories are a symptom of distrust. So is anti-elitism and anti-intellectualism.

For myself. I've noticed that seeing and worrying about financial insecurity caused me to start to notice other injustices more acutely. People who are comfortable and not worried about anything aren't ass sensitive to injustice. You don't really pay attention until you feel threatened by certain things yourself.



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10 Jan 2022, 2:25 am

NoClearMind53 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but all of these points that people are arguing over, such as racism, sexism, and genderism, don't have anything to do with a financial crisis do they? So if a financial crisis caused this then why are people obsessed and arguing over those other issues.

What you mean mean by 'fellow Americans', exactly?

Financial crisis caused material insecurity. People find comfort in tribalism when they feel insecure. Tribal strife becomes more and more amplified in situations of insecurity. Different groups all feel like they are scrapping for a shrinking slice of pie. There's also increasing suspicion and distrust. Conspiracy theories are a symptom of distrust. So is anti-elitism and anti-intellectualism.

For myself. I've noticed that seeing and worrying about financial insecurity caused me to start to notice other injustices more acutely. People who are comfortable and not worried about anything aren't ass sensitive to injustice. You don't really pay attention until you feel threatened by certain things yourself.


Oh okay, but instead of obsessing over fixing issues of racism, sexism, etc, why aren't people trying to get the economy back up and running, if that is the rute cause of all this?



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10 Jan 2022, 2:30 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but instead of obsessing over fixing issues of racism, sexism, etc, why aren't people trying to get the economy back up and running, if that is the rute cause of all this?


Well, if you want the left wing conspiracy version, getting the economy back up and running and doing so fairly might require looking into various companies and individuals and their business practices, where as wokeness is an excellent distraction that doesn't require such inquiries, and is very easy for big companies to make token efforts in the direction of.


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10 Jan 2022, 7:34 am

Dox47 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but instead of obsessing over fixing issues of racism, sexism, etc, why aren't people trying to get the economy back up and running, if that is the rute cause of all this?


Well, if you want the left wing conspiracy version, getting the economy back up and running and doing so fairly might require looking into various companies and individuals and their business practices, where as wokeness is an excellent distraction that doesn't require such inquiries, and is very easy for big companies to make token efforts in the direction of.


Grrr.. Corporate manipulation of society :skull: …… (probably should be listed as a crime against humanity) imho


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ironpony
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10 Jan 2022, 9:34 am

Dox47 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but instead of obsessing over fixing issues of racism, sexism, etc, why aren't people trying to get the economy back up and running, if that is the rute cause of all this?


Well, if you want the left wing conspiracy version, getting the economy back up and running and doing so fairly might require looking into various companies and individuals and their business practices, where as wokeness is an excellent distraction that doesn't require such inquiries, and is very easy for big companies to make token efforts in the direction of.


Oh okay, but this doesn't seem consistent with the liberals though, as they do not seem to care about the economy as much as conversatives, or so it seems. Or at least they never seem to talk about it, like conservatives do in my experience.



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10 Jan 2022, 9:52 am

Am afraid that both of our parties here in the USA have gone to being Corporate controlled …just my opinion


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shlaifu
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10 Jan 2022, 11:46 am

ironpony wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but instead of obsessing over fixing issues of racism, sexism, etc, why aren't people trying to get the economy back up and running, if that is the rute cause of all this?


Well, if you want the left wing conspiracy version, getting the economy back up and running and doing so fairly might require looking into various companies and individuals and their business practices, where as wokeness is an excellent distraction that doesn't require such inquiries, and is very easy for big companies to make token efforts in the direction of.


Oh okay, but this doesn't seem consistent with the liberals though, as they do not seem to care about the economy as much as conversatives, or so it seems. Or at least they never seem to talk about it, like conservatives do in my experience.


What matters is what politicians actually do, and here, the Democrats and Republicans are largely indistinguishable. For Democrats, that means their target Audience (Liberals) better not talk about the economy that much.
Because the way Democratic politicians act is a bit unpalatable to Liberals, but also: Liberals profit from it to some extent and that would leave them at a contradiction between their values and what profits them (at least to some extent). So, to avoid cognitive dissonance, they don't talk about it much.


For Republicans, that means their target Audience (conservatives) think about the economy the way they want them to think about it. Because the majority of Conservative voters is really taking a hit from neoliberal policies, so they need to come up with a boogey-man (socialism) and an enemy (liberals).
This leads to conservatives talking about the economy - but they're talking the nonsense they learn from Fox News and republican think tanks etc. (for example, statistically, immigration is a net plus for the economy, but you don't hear conservatives say that)

eventually, both democrats and republicans act in favor of wall street, but each has to communicate in the respective way with their respective voters.

if you go talk to actual economic left wingers, they don't care much for either liberal or conservative views, and they talk about the economy a lot. They talk about tax fraud, cum-ex-trading fraud, offshore-bank accounts, shell companies, goverent surveillance, modern feudalism - things neither liberals nor conservatives talk about.


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NoClearMind53
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10 Jan 2022, 12:14 pm

ironpony wrote:
NoClearMind53 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but all of these points that people are arguing over, such as racism, sexism, and genderism, don't have anything to do with a financial crisis do they? So if a financial crisis caused this then why are people obsessed and arguing over those other issues.

What you mean mean by 'fellow Americans', exactly?

Financial crisis caused material insecurity. People find comfort in tribalism when they feel insecure. Tribal strife becomes more and more amplified in situations of insecurity. Different groups all feel like they are scrapping for a shrinking slice of pie. There's also increasing suspicion and distrust. Conspiracy theories are a symptom of distrust. So is anti-elitism and anti-intellectualism.

For myself. I've noticed that seeing and worrying about financial insecurity caused me to start to notice other injustices more acutely. People who are comfortable and not worried about anything aren't ass sensitive to injustice. You don't really pay attention until you feel threatened by certain things yourself.


Oh okay, but instead of obsessing over fixing issues of racism, sexism, etc, why aren't people trying to get the economy back up and running, if that is the rute cause of all this?

"Fixing the problem" isn't as simple as "getting the economy up and running". There isn't really the political will to do anything serious about ever increasing inequality and the attendant ever increasing cost of living driven by rent seeking behavior on top of stagnant wages.



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10 Jan 2022, 12:34 pm

Dox47 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but instead of obsessing over fixing issues of racism, sexism, etc, why aren't people trying to get the economy back up and running, if that is the rute cause of all this?

Well, if you want the left wing conspiracy version, getting the economy back up and running and doing so fairly might require looking into various companies and individuals and their business practices, where as wokeness is an excellent distraction that doesn't require such inquiries, and is very easy for big companies to make token efforts in the direction of.

It's not that much of a typical "conspiracy theory" though as it doesn't require either bizarrely cartoonish motives nor an elaborate plot to hide. All it requires is corporate entities following the path of least resistance. Also, economic issues are boring to people (economically comfortable people at least), whereas culture war garbage drives ratings. I don't see the focus on culture war hot button issues as much of a conspiracy either when you see the same phenomenon happening on Youtube with more independent media. They all chase the grift to some degree.



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10 Jan 2022, 5:16 pm


The Human Condition At Core is Ruled By Our Emotions and Senses

We Feel We Sense And That Doesn't Necessarily Have to Make "Sense"

From the Stand Point of Mechanical Cognition That Tries To Make

Order Out of What May Seem Like Total Chaos in the World

Fitting Our Reality Into Forms

With Borders Like Time,
Distance, Space, And Matter;

Which Of Course Quantum Mechanics

Relatively Speaking Suggests is Illusion

As All is Energy including Us More of the

Sense and Feel Of How We Perceive Reality

Now As Particle Wave and Field Us as i Love
to Relate Ocean Wave Water Naked Enough
Whole Complete BeLief BeLeaf BeLove Be

Living Tree Inhaling Peace Exhaling

LoVE iN JoY oF LiGHT Giving
Sharing Caring Healing

At Best With least

Harm For All Concerned

Of Nature Whole in Larger
Venn Diagrams That Likely Exist

Than We May Even Fathom in Our Imaginations Now;

YeS, iN Terms of the Unknown Nature is Already Chaotic

Enough With the Order We Individually And in Group Ways Bring

So Is Life

Science or Art;

Is Life Rational

And Cold Mechanical

And Analytic With Predictable

Borders of Abstract Constructs That

Make Life Seem More Like Black And White

Systemizing Science That We Actually Subjugate

And Control of All the Art of Reality Now Well As i Love

to Dance And Sing
Art is Literally 60

Percent Of SmART

And HeART Now Just
A Metaphor Yet We Humans
Tend to Get Caught Up in Spoon-Fed
Culture Fed to Us From Birth And often
Fall to So Many Illusory Fears that May Never

Actually Impact Us At All And this May Be Particularly

Difficult For folks Who Have Difficulty Filtering Out Distractions

In Life; And On The Other Hand, For Those With Laser Focus on JUST

ONE Task They May Miss The Big Iceberg Coming on the Right Hand of

Their Titanic

Of Life
And Boom!
Wreck Their Ship
Never Seeing Whaat
Is Coming to Crash it Now!

So Life is A Balance, Seeing the
Forest and The Trees And We aRe

Leaves Of the Forest Indeed As We May
Feed Our Living Trees in Solo or Group Forest

Ways of Being Benefitting All the Most IN Balancing Life Now

For

Real

It's Effortless Ease
in Autotelic Flow of Bliss
For Some in Dance And Song

So How Does Truly The Overall

Chaos of Culture Impact me Now

i Make Art And Order Out of What

Personally Impacts me and

Do Not Expend Any

More Emotional

And Sensory
Energy into What i Cannot
Control and Change in Life....

As Far As Politics Goes i Vote...

As Far As Everything Else Goes

i Tend to Love it All Dance And Sing
And Make Life A Work of Art With Still More
Human Potential to Come and True Some Folks

Might Suggest They Have no Idea Why i Do What i Do

Yet It's True i Can't Make Folks Feel or Sense My Heaven

Anymore Than i Can And Will Make A Horse Drink The Water

Once i Carry

That Horse

on my Back

to A Trough of Water...

i Quit Trying to Carry Heavy

Loads Like that And Now i Thrive
And As Usual Financial Independence
Helps First to Sift Through The Chaff and Find the Real Wheat...

As Long As i've Lived The World's Been Truly Out of Order; However,

i Realize i Don't Fit in, So i make the Rest Art of Mine And Do Thrive For Real...

For Now At Least There Are Most Definitely Ways to Blend in "Modern Rome" Enough to Thrive

Yet That's

Only From

my Point of

View i Personally

See My World No More

Out of Order Than Wind Flies

A Bird's Wings and Ocean Water Swims a Fish...

It's ALL A Dance And Song of Play to me as i Surely
Am Just Wings, Winds, Fins With Ocean Whole Ground Sky ALiVE NoW iN

Other
Words Nature
Free Able By Relative
Free Will To Dance And
Sing Shedding Tools And
Other Clothes of CuLTuRE
i Don't Master Now Free This
Living

Tree

FoResT
Free Etc...
So On And So Forth Now..:)


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12 Jan 2022, 7:15 am

As I saw the title of this thread, I thought to myself, yes it sure has been a crazy couple of years. Just think of some of the things that have happened:

• BLM and antifa ‘George Floyd’ riots rage for weeks on end, featuring murders, assaults, arson, looting, and the destruction of the livelihoods of thousands of innocent people, which the media covers up while telling everyone the protests were ‘mostly peaceful’
• At the height of covid alarmism, we had several liberals maintaining that anti-lockdown protests were ‘super-spreader events’ whereas somehow the BLM/antifa protests weren’t.
• The US news becomes a soap opera and morality play for the entire Western world. Following the George Floyd protests in the US, thousands of liberal morons throughout the Western world engage in self-abasing quasi-religious rituals in public since they’ve got nothing better to virtue signal about.
• In the UK ‘George Floyd’ protests, BLM and anarchist types desecrate war memorials. The police respond by ‘taking the knee’ to them. Several celebrities come out in support of the BLM activists, and then mysteriously drop their support after some BLM activists expressed their support for the Palestinians.
• Transgenderism and women’s sports. Enough said.
• 6/1/21, A large group of boisterous but unarmed Trump supports, men and women, force their way into the Capitol building. Once inside they are seen on video wandering around aimlessly for a few hours – several of them walking right past security officers who stand there and usher them on - before eventually leaving. The authorities and media wail hysterically that this was actually a serious attempt to take over the US Government. Several months later the US authorities hold soviet-style hearings featuring supposedly hardened police officers crying crocodile tears about the events of 6th Jan as if they’d just got back from 12 months in a war zone.
• The Ghislaine Maxwell trial takes place, while the media, in all their (muted) coverage of it, still refuse to mention the obvious fact that she and Epstein were intelligence assets running a blackmail operation.
• October 2021, the US National School Board write to the White House to label as ‘domestic terrorists’ parents who dare to speak up about the crap their children are getting taught in school. Slimy creep Merrick Garland actually calls for the FBI to get involved.

So … ‘is this the sort of craziness the OP might be referring to?’ I thought to myself.

No, of course not. It’s just yet another post about ‘the threat of fascism’.

Sigh...



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12 Jan 2022, 12:30 pm

The above post is quite a synopsis of how aweful the last year was .
And the mandates for masking , then the new variant Omicron and people are still dying
even if they make it to the hospital . Then finding out my city has not renewed the mask mandates intentionally inspite of the new variant coming about , that is suppose to be more tranmissable . Why were there mask mandates to begin with ? Personally was masked everytime i went out which was not often . But one time went out masked on Black Friday . ended up in emergency before Christmas with Covid. Got out 12 days later , but noone explained to me that
people i knew with the same symptoms died in the hospital . And it was a close call for me .
And they rushed me out of there before my breathing was stabilized but they thought i was getting enough oxygen . And assigned home health aides to me. So they could make room for the next patient .In a harshly overworked and shortstaffed hospital .
This very weekend my city is holding a big football game at a huge stadium, with no mask mandates . Are we now encouraging super spreader events . Even with the more transmissable
Omicron variant and still the Covid19 and delta variants .
So how was masking helping me. And others whom were following the mandates. :evil:
Are we just suppose to get use to people dying in greater numbers,already felt like we are in a society that encourages death. :?: Just walk into most all nursing homes . :cry:
Am amazed that i have made it this far.
But the point is it has been a crazy making year.


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12 Jan 2022, 4:23 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:
So … ‘is this the sort of craziness the OP might be referring to?’ I thought to myself.

No, of course not. It’s just yet another post about ‘the threat of fascism’.

Sigh...


I like the cut of your jib.


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12 Jan 2022, 10:25 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:
As I saw the title of this thread, I thought to myself, yes it sure has been a crazy couple of years. Just think of some of the things that have happened:

• BLM and antifa ‘George Floyd’ riots rage for weeks on end, featuring murders, assaults, arson, looting, and the destruction of the livelihoods of thousands of innocent people, which the media covers up while telling everyone the protests were ‘mostly peaceful’
• At the height of covid alarmism, we had several liberals maintaining that anti-lockdown protests were ‘super-spreader events’ whereas somehow the BLM/antifa protests weren’t.
• The US news becomes a soap opera and morality play for the entire Western world. Following the George Floyd protests in the US, thousands of liberal morons throughout the Western world engage in self-abasing quasi-religious rituals in public since they’ve got nothing better to virtue signal about.
• In the UK ‘George Floyd’ protests, BLM and anarchist types desecrate war memorials. The police respond by ‘taking the knee’ to them. Several celebrities come out in support of the BLM activists, and then mysteriously drop their support after some BLM activists expressed their support for the Palestinians.
• Transgenderism and women’s sports. Enough said.
• 6/1/21, A large group of boisterous but unarmed Trump supports, men and women, force their way into the Capitol building. Once inside they are seen on video wandering around aimlessly for a few hours – several of them walking right past security officers who stand there and usher them on - before eventually leaving. The authorities and media wail hysterically that this was actually a serious attempt to take over the US Government. Several months later the US authorities hold soviet-style hearings featuring supposedly hardened police officers crying crocodile tears about the events of 6th Jan as if they’d just got back from 12 months in a war zone.
• The Ghislaine Maxwell trial takes place, while the media, in all their (muted) coverage of it, still refuse to mention the obvious fact that she and Epstein were intelligence assets running a blackmail operation.
• October 2021, the US National School Board write to the White House to label as ‘domestic terrorists’ parents who dare to speak up about the crap their children are getting taught in school. Slimy creep Merrick Garland actually calls for the FBI to get involved.

So … ‘is this the sort of craziness the OP might be referring to?’ I thought to myself.

No, of course not. It’s just yet another post about ‘the threat of fascism’.

Sigh...


hardly the whole world though, and what really does run through almost the whole world are a resurgence of nationalism, a rise of far right parties and rhetorics and politicians using the general chaos to make some legislation that would have sounded unbelievable 5 years ago.


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