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blitzkrieg
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15 Jan 2022, 6:55 am

Why doesn't the west be like China & embrace communism? Why not go further & have 1.3 billion people, all packed together like sardines in urban city centres?

Gosh, it must be an Autistic paradise. :roll:


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hurtloam
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15 Jan 2022, 7:09 am

Looks like the busy streets of New York



naturalplastic
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15 Jan 2022, 7:16 am

China would be just as crowded regardless of what economic system it had. Youre lumping together two different noncomparable things. And China is quite capitalistic these days. Nationalist China (Taiwan) is also quite crowded



blitzkrieg
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15 Jan 2022, 7:20 am

naturalplastic wrote:
China would be just as crowded regardless of what economic system it had. Youre lumping together two different noncomparable things. And China is quite capitalistic these days. Nationalist China (Taiwan) is also quite crowded


It is capitalist in its economy, but communist in its governmental structure.

The worst combo'.


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naturalplastic
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15 Jan 2022, 7:36 am

Pretty much, and pretty much.

It is that combination, and it may well be the worst of both worlds. Actually in the short run it was an effective combination to industrialize the huge nation with velocity. But in the long run its bad for both the citizen and the country as a whole.



blitzkrieg
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15 Jan 2022, 7:38 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Pretty much, and pretty much.

It is that combination, and it may well be the worst of both worlds. Actually in the short run it was an effective combination to industrialize the huge nation with velocity. But in the long run its bad for both the citizen and the country as a whole.


I agree 100%.


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thinkinginpictures
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15 Jan 2022, 11:30 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
It is capitalist in its economy, but communist in its governmental structure.


Communism relates only to economy, not governmental structure.
What you're refering to is more accurately called Authoritarianism (as compared to Liberalism or Conservatism).

China is Authoritarian with a Capitalist economy, but some elements of its economy has some "Communist" ideals, ie. state run factories.

Communism means to that the state owns the means of production. That's it.
Whether the state is liberal or authoritarian, has nothing to do with its economy.

An example of Authoritarian Capitalist and U.S. backed government, is Chile during the rule of Augusto Pinochet.



MaxE
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15 Jan 2022, 2:18 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Pretty much, and pretty much.

It is that combination, and it may well be the worst of both worlds. Actually in the short run it was an effective combination to industrialize the huge nation with velocity. But in the long run its bad for both the citizen and the country as a whole.

I don't think the CCP is in complete denial that they have serious economic challenges which might threaten their country's stability. Ironically, some of Xi Jinping's policies that have been criticized for their authoritarian nature seem to have come about precisely because he is concerned about increasing concentration of wealth in the hands of a few and great discrepancies in standard of living, with millions struggling mightily to stay housed and fed. As well as giant corporations having enough power to rival the government. Therefore he invokes the memory of Mao Zedong whose philosophy promoted equality. This may seem very foreign to us Westerners but it's not necessarily a bad thing for China.

I think he also wants to encourage Chinese to hold their national values above Western values, with the understanding that no other country or culture is more important in the world than China, which I think should make perfect sense to a Chinese.


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naturalplastic
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15 Jan 2022, 2:48 pm

MaxE wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Pretty much, and pretty much.

It is that combination, and it may well be the worst of both worlds. Actually in the short run it was an effective combination to industrialize the huge nation with velocity. But in the long run its bad for both the citizen and the country as a whole.

I don't think the CCP is in complete denial that they have serious economic challenges which might threaten their country's stability. Ironically, some of Xi Jinping's policies that have been criticized for their authoritarian nature seem to have come about precisely because he is concerned about increasing concentration of wealth in the hands of a few and great discrepancies in standard of living, with millions struggling mightily to stay housed and fed. As well as giant corporations having enough power to rival the government. Therefore he invokes the memory of Mao Zedong whose philosophy promoted equality. This may seem very foreign to us Westerners but it's not necessarily a bad thing for China.

I think he also wants to encourage Chinese to hold their national values above Western values, with the understanding that no other country or culture is more important in the world than China, which I think should make perfect sense to a Chinese.


Make China great again! Yes. Lets return to the values of those two Chinese philosophers. Confucius, and...Karl Marx. Lol!

But youre probably right that the renewed authoritarianism of Xi does have some moral rationale to it- because of the increasing inequality in the post Mao era. Prosperity is uneven geographically as well strata wise. The coastal provinces are much more advanced than the provinces of the interior. Some experts say that if the coastal provinces were a seperate country it would be a liberal democratic society much like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. But the interior (the main heartland away from the coast) is still very much a third world type peasant society. And thats just talking about China proper (the one third of china actually inhabited by ethnic chinese). The farther out remaining two thirds of the China is the thinly populated deserts and wastelands inhabited by ethnic minorities like the Uighurs and the Tibetans. Bejing needs to have all of these desperate parts of the huge country to stay unified, requiring strong central authority- pulling on each region with a short leash.