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naturalplastic
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19 Jan 2022, 6:00 pm

ironpony wrote:
But if the defund the police movement is because of how police treat black people, why is it mostly white people who are advocating for it then, compared to black people?


Do you really need something that obvious explained to you? Or are you just trolling?

Folks of all skin colors were shocked at the sight of the White cop killing the Black on TV.
Though they may have differed as to how to solve the problem.

You ARE aware that Whites CAN be sympathetic to Blacks when Black suffer at the hands of other Whites?

Also 70 percent of the nation is white, and only 12 percent are Black. So even if every single Black person holds opinion X, and only half of White people in the US hold the same opinion X, it may mean proportionately fewer White think X than do Blacks, but the absolute number of White who think X is going to be three times as many as the total number of Blacks that think X.



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19 Jan 2022, 6:28 pm

Oh I see what you mean it's just the way it was worded before, it was suggested that white people were more into the defund movement than BLM, and I was wondering why that was.

But also, I feel that defunding the police will just make things worse. Let's say there are less cops working because of defunding. Let's say there are 5 violent guys up to no good, doing a violent crime of some sort. If 15 cops respond to it, those cops will more likely take those five guys alive because there are a lot of them to help. But if only two cops respond to it, they are a lot more likely to use deadly force, because it's 2 against 5. That's just one example, but I can see cops responding harder if there are less of them out there to back each other up if that's the case.



naturalplastic
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19 Jan 2022, 6:48 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh I see what you mean it's just the way it was worded before, it was suggested that white people were more into the defund movement than BLM, and I was wondering why that was.

But also, I feel that defunding the police will just make things worse. Let's say there are less cops working because of defunding. Let's say there are 5 violent guys up to no good, doing a violent crime of some sort. If 15 cops respond to it, those cops will more likely take those five guys alive because there are a lot of them to help. But if only two cops respond to it, they are a lot more likely to use deadly force, because it's 2 against 5. That's just one example, but I can see cops responding harder if there are less of them out there to back each other up if that's the case.


Well...the White folks in local legislatures who floated the defund idea across the land were overzealots, or wrong direction zealots, or like that IMO. And I agree with you that "defunding the police" is a bad idea, as well as being a really bad slogan (and our a Black ex POTUS was one of the first voices to advise against using the slogan).



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19 Jan 2022, 7:38 pm

I think that what some of the more reasonable "Defund the Police" folk envision is shifting some of the funding for police over to funding for social workers who can respond to incidents, for instance, of a mental health nature.

For instance, if someone has a public meltdown a police officer might not have adequate training to defuse the situation. Their training might lead them to treat it as someone disobeying police orders, etc.





And I think calling this movement "Defund the Police" is a really bad idea.


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19 Jan 2022, 8:39 pm

Well I think the problem with situations the police should not be handling is, why do people call the police in the wrong situations? Is it the people's fault then? Or should we make it a policy that the police do not have to respond to situations that is not right for them? But if they do this, then will important calls get missed and there is no way to tell, unless they respond to every call?

Another thing is, all this started when the police were called on George Floyd. But Floyd didn't have the police called on him because of mental health problems. He had the police called on him for passing counterfeit money, so why do these advocates bring mental health problems into this, when their defund goal is based on an event that was about conterfeit money the reason why the call was made?



vividgroovy
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19 Jan 2022, 9:35 pm

Dox47 wrote:
vividgroovy wrote:
I really don't know much about this topic, but here's how it looks to me: some people actually want to abolish the police while others just want to re-allocate funds. So the way to get both of these groups on board is to use a deliberately vague slogan that can mean what either group wants it to mean.


The thing is, the group who wants to abolish is tiny, a minority of a minority, while police abolition is politically toxic to broad swathes of the electorate, so pandering to the abolition crowd is political malpractice, jumping over a dollar to grab a nickel.


Again I'm only speculating, but possibly they think they can get the dollar and the nickel too? (I'm not saying they're correct, but possibly that's what they're thinking?)

I don't about how many people actually want to abolish the police, but it does seem to be trendy in some circles to say so, or just to say that cops are bad, like I recently saw a tweet saying "I like Zootopia, even though it's police propaganda." (???) Or in a recent discussion on here where somebody said gay cops were banned from a gay pride parade for being cops. But this is all anecdotal.

Dox47 wrote:
...considering how they dominate popular culture, you'd really think that some of the skills would transfer over, but it's like their effortless cultural hegemony has robbed them of the ability to pitch and persuade people who don't already agree with them.


This really sums up my feeling about most political discussion. They aren't just preaching to choir, they're preaching to the choir director about how sinful the choir is right in front of the choir and then they're shocked when the choir doesn't want to sing.



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21 Jan 2022, 7:58 pm

Even if the BLM did not actually meant to defund the police and it was just a shorthand term, some cities have taken it literally though, like NYC, LA, Portland, etc, and actually defunded their police by a significant degree after the defund riots. You do not see anyone from BLM going public saying that those cities misunderstood what they meant, and that it was not meant to be taken literally, but just for shorthand. So if BLM was just wanting reforming, why aren't they going public and saying that their slogan was misunderstood by some city mayors?